Air Lift or just bubbles for our tea?

[growclean]

Ok, so I bought 5 new tanks a little bit ago to use for tea. I had looked through the thread stickied at the top and decided to give a shot at an airlift. I also used new materials for the brewer and want to get some help if I can.

Ok, for the airlift, I simply ran some 5/8 ID tubing directly from the pump along a 2" pvc pipe with a 4" expander on it. I cut a couple of holes and gave it a shot. Success! Sort of! It really wasn't quite as dramatic as I thought. It pumps continuous but seems to still have a spurting type of effect. I angled the pipe to see if I could get the vortex effect, but there is defiantly not enough water moving to do that! Does that only work for brewer that have the funnel bottom?

I then worked on the new brewer. I used some 1' spa tubing that I could easily manipulate, but is still very thick, durable, and sturdy. I am still working on the final design, but I thought that I would post some pics and get some feedback. But I like the idea so far.

After breaking my last 3/64" drill bit, I went back to the water pump. I used a further reducer to try some 1' pipe instead of the 2'. Still pumped, but didn't seem to be anything more spectacular.

So my basic questions are:

Am I just getting the results I should with the air lift? How is moving that water superior to just adding the bubbles?

With the standard technique, I get alot mini bubbles with even coverage, and have always had good success with previous models. What is the advantage of the airlift?

What do you think of the spa hose? It is 1' and I can still straighten it out. I think that with high pressure I can still clean it well. If not, I will cut it occassionally and just use a couple of pvc joints and then take it apart. I like the ability to get the perfect circle and fully hug the container.


Some pics... not complete, but you can get the idea...

 

[growclean]

 

[Bullfrog44]

Looks good to me. First and most important question is what kind of air pump do you have? If the pump is not powerful enough then you wont have the best air lift. In order to get a vortex with your air lift you have to suck from the bottom. Get a bulk head fitting and install that the middle of the bottom of the bucket. This will give a good chance to vortex, as you don't need a cone bottom tank to create a vortex.

The advantage of an air lift over just bubbles is two effects. One, when the water comes out of the pipe it drops and breaks the surface tension of the water. Two, when the water enters the riser pipe the forced air creates pressure and will help dissolved the oxygen and fuse it with the water. However, if you are getting good results why fix something that isn't broken? Good luck.

 

[Scrogerman]

i think Spurr & MM will be your men here(amongst others too), but im in to see what perspires! doesnt look quite right to me but airlifts are pretty new to me.

from what i understand its not just about DO/bubbling/surface agitation etc, its about damaging effects on Fungal hyphe from bubbling, not so much aerobic bacteria(but counts too), but like i said im new to this one! (Learner plates) max beneficial DO is the point if im not mistaken!

Its almost like a DO infusion baffle(for fungi&microbes) is how i took it? i really took note, when i saw the guys speak of it. cool shit!

G'Luck!

 

[Sgt.Stedenko]

Can you over-bubble a tea?
The reason I ask is I started a brew last night. EWC and a very small amount of P guano in a nylon stocking, B-seaweed kelp and blackstrap molasses in the bucket. Airstone in the bottom of the bucket. Water temp is 76F.
Went to bed with a small froth. Woke up with signs of froth having reached the top of the bucket (the walls were all messy), but not enough froth in the morning to justify what was on the walls. Seems like the froth retreated.

 

[mad librettist]

froth is just froth, no need to worry about that.

microscope says froth has no correlation with good or bad tea.

 

[Sgt.Stedenko]

Thanks mad

 

[growclean]

I will post some more pics tonight if I get in early enough or tomorrow. Any other comments on the the benefits of the lift? The pump is the same that I would normally use for just the brewer portion. I will grab stats today....

Thanks guys!

 

[Microbeman]

I agree with BFs point on pump size. I always encourage people to use what they have unless you have $ to burn and want to experiment. Heck, if you got a water pump you can build a brewer with a simple venturi. The advantage of an airlift as BF has stated is that it increases the dissolved O2 capacity of your pump.

There was an unfortunate statement made by Ingham (I believe) that fine or too many bubbles cut up fungal hyphae. This is absolute bunk. You cannot use too much air, unless it is like a jet stream or something. Another fallacy from the same source is that black strap molasses only feeds bacteria. It feeds bacteria/archaea and fungi equally well.

 

[heady blunts]

you should combine the two! an air lift plus the bubbles from the spa tube. MAXIUM AERATION!!!

i think your air lift would work a little better if you reposition the tube coming from your air pump.

in the picture it looks like it's pointing down, and the bubbles have to find their way into the lift tube.

ideally your air tube should come in at a 90* angle (perpendicular) to your lift tube, and the end of your air tube should be positioned so the bubbles shoot right up the center of your lift tube. this will give you maximum flow.

also make sure your lift is braced sturdily. too much movement can decrease flow. it also needs to be straight up and down, and not slanted in any direction.

that's pretty much it! happy brewing!

 

[growclean]

That is the bubs before being fully finished....


I finished putting it together today and it looks and works great. So far, I am really happy with this curved style spa hose. However I am going to use this for a bit and see how it is to clean before I make the other 6. My experience is that it is usually neseccarry to fully or nearly fully break down my old pvc style ones, as the sludge was too thick on the inside. However, the fact that this is 1' and there will be no ridges or angles when washing it, leads me to hope that will be manageable.

Another note: I used a 3/64 drill bit on this stuff and holes are very tight. I really like the amount of micro bubbles I am getting. I will take some more pics tomorrow.

So, so far I am pleased. However I would love some possible suggestions or ideas to try before making the next ones. I am going to look up the venturi idea, but while I am, here is another question already:

We currently use a sump pump, rigged with pvc in the fashion that we have a seperate downspout that pumps back into the barrel (valve control) and then our spout leading out that we have a garden hose adapter on. This is how we water. We throw the sump pump in the barrel with the overflow valve partially open and plug it in. We then attach our hose and open the watering valve. But we always leave the other valve partially open for pressures sake.

Instead of seperately aerating and water pumping, how could we combine this? So one pump for each tea brewer that can also pump water enough to move it at least 50' through a garden hose at regular pressure.

I am going to take the suggestions on the air lift and try them out. However, I have to say, so far I am leaning towards the "don't fix it unless its broken" idea mentioned above. Really, the bubbles and pumps are silent, and the airlift is horribly loud(rattles and splashing), and with 5-6 in one room I think it may be too loud.

 

[bakelite]

you should combine the two! an air lift plus the bubbles from the spa tube. MAXIUM AERATION!!!

i think your air lift would work a little better if you reposition the tube coming from your air pump.

in the picture it looks like it's pointing down, and the bubbles have to find their way into the lift tube.

ideally your air tube should come in at a 90* angle (perpendicular) to your lift tube, and the end of your air tube should be positioned so the bubbles shoot right up the center of your lift tube. this will give you maximum flow.

Heady, if I'm picturing this correctly......wouldn't this require positioning of the air hose inside of the air lift tube? If so this would restrict the flow through the airlift tube itself possibly negating the increase that you were hoping to gain by repositioning the air tube wouldn't it? Just a thought.

-bakelite

 

[Bullfrog44]

Are 100% of your bubbles making it into the air lift? If not then it is more efficient to place in your riser pipe.

 

[heady blunts]

Heady, if I'm picturing this correctly......wouldn't this require positioning of the air hose inside of the air lift tube? If so this would restrict the flow through the airlift tube itself possibly negating the increase that you were hoping to gain by repositioning the air tube wouldn't it? Just a thought.

-bakelite

not if you put it at the very bottom of the lift tube and have cut outs above it like RipVanWeed did it (and now me too). growclean already has the cut outs, he just needs to drill a new hole for the airtube on the bottom of one of the wings.

here's what mine looks like:

 

[heady blunts]

that spa hose is sweet btw.

MM suggests on microbeorganics.com to position the drilled holes so that bubbles shoot down at the bottom of your bucket to provide maximum agitation. with the holes at the top there's a possibility of dead spots in that bottom 1 inch of your bucket.

 

[rrog]

that spa hose is sweet btw.

In what way? Nice to work with?

MM suggests on microbeorganics.com to position the drilled holes so that bubbles shoot down at the bottom of your bucket to provide maximum agitation. with the holes at the top there's a possibility of dead spots in that bottom 1 inch of your bucket.

Hmm! All the more reason to add an air stone to the rig as you suggested earlier. That's a good subtlety regarding the direction of the bubbles. Thanks for that. Props to MM.

 

[growclean]

Ok, I forgot to take some pics. But the thing is up and running and works very well. To clarify a couple of things. With the air lift, I was getting 100% of the bubbles in the tubes. Would repositioning help if that is the case?

Heady, thanks for the tip on the drill holes. I actually alway do that and forgot to point it out. I will snap some detailed pics of the next one I make. I like the hose so far becase of the ease of making it and using it. I will have at least 7 of these running at all times. Breaking down, washing, bleaching, rinsing and reassembling takes a bit with all the connectors (1/2 of them are always hard to disconnect). With this I will just have one 10' long section of hose to rinse out, bleach, rinse and then hang dry...

The pump that was used for the pics is a 110lpm pump, which was the biggest I have ever bought. It will run an 80 gallon tank. The one pictured is a 40 gallon, and I will use the pump the size down. These pumps are sold at our local organic gardening shop and are similiar to the one mm suggests (ecoplus I think).

Everything I am doing is really just stolen from him and the other tea gurus on here. My first brewer was a KISS 5 gallon and is remarkably similar to what I am using now btw! I will post some pics up.

Another observation is that I love the amount and size of the bubbles. With that tiny drill bit and the slightly rubber effect of the hose (possible closes each hole just a little) this thing appears to have one of the highest level of bubblies that i have seen out of any of our designs.

We are currently not making our own compost tea mix as we used to. We are just currently bubbling the Roots Organic line. So we are not using our seperate tea bag like we did previously. However there is actually alot of particulate in it, which they recommend to leave in suspension when watering, not filtering. This always complicates things for the pumps, shower heads on hoses, etc. Plus we usually run a seperate mini aquarium pump at the bottom to assist. Any opinions on filtering this instead like we used to?

 

[bakelite]

not if you put it at the very bottom of the lift tube and have cut outs above it like RipVanWeed did it (and now me too). growclean already has the cut outs, he just needs to drill a new hole for the airtube on the bottom of one of the wings.

here's what mine looks like:

Now I see I saw the plastic sink drain airlift thread but didn't follow it completely. Nice setup! The water must crank out of that tube.

 

[heady blunts]

Ok, I forgot to take some pics. But the thing is up and running and works very well. To clarify a couple of things. With the air lift, I was getting 100% of the bubbles in the tubes. Would repositioning help if that is the case?

Heady, thanks for the tip on the drill holes. I actually alway do that and forgot to point it out. I will snap some detailed pics of the next one I make. I like the hose so far becase of the ease of making it and using it. I will have at least 7 of these running at all times. Breaking down, washing, bleaching, rinsing and reassembling takes a bit with all the connectors (1/2 of them are always hard to disconnect). With this I will just have one 10' long section of hose to rinse out, bleach, rinse and then hang dry...

The pump that was used for the pics is a 110lpm pump, which was the biggest I have ever bought. It will run an 80 gallon tank. The one pictured is a 40 gallon, and I will use the pump the size down. These pumps are sold at our local organic gardening shop and are similiar to the one mm suggests (ecoplus I think).

sounds like you've got all your bases covered. i'd say stick with what you've got if it's working for ya.

i didn't realize you were using such a sweet pump. the flow problem on your airlift might have actually been that the diameter was restrictive. if you ever go that route again try using a bigger tubing like 1 1/4" or even 1 1/2"

that's a crazy operation man! seven brewers running at all time? why don't you just build a bigger one?

i think your next move ought to be getting a microscope and learning how to identify your microbiology. that'll bring your shit (tea) to the next level.

i know one is on my wish list

Now I see I saw the plastic sink drain airlift thread but didn't follow it completely. Nice setup! The water must crank out of that tube.

thanks man! it's simple and effective and brews all i need. i measured its flow rate at about 2 gallons per min.

 

[Scrogerman]

I agree with BFs point on pump size. I always encourage people to use what they have unless you have $ to burn and want to experiment. Heck, if you got a water pump you can build a brewer with a simple venturi. The advantage of an airlift as BF has stated is that it increases the dissolved O2 capacity of your pump.

There was an unfortunate statement made by Ingham (I believe) that fine or too many bubbles cut up fungal hyphae. This is absolute bunk. You cannot use too much air, unless it is like a jet stream or something. Another fallacy from the same source is that black strap molasses only feeds bacteria. It feeds bacteria/archaea and fungi equally well.

Thanks for clearing that up for me man. cheers!