Perfect pH?

[desertsquirrel]

I have often heard of this mythical "perfect" or even "stable" pH. However this approach has failed me both practically as well as theoretically.

Practically i documented running a static pH at the start of another thread and it was a nightmare. Deficiencies right and left as well as constant attention to and lowering of the pH to hold it stable. In general i see a correlation between pH rise and ec reduction to a tune of .5-.6 pH rise/.25-.3 reduction in EC over each 24 hour period in the uc and each watering of rockwol slabs.

Which brings me to theory. Initially i rely upon the pH rise to do 2 things. First the rise tells me that the plants are both removing acids (nutes) as well expelling hydroxyls, both of which raise pH. Also, working with the natural swing, allows the solution to cycle through the entire spectrum of essential elements optimal uptake point; as illustrated in the chart below:

My question is, if it exists, what do you think perfect pH means?

 

[desertsquirrel]

BTW i swing from 5.4-6.4 in veg and 5.1-6.1 in flower for RDWC and rockwol.

If you vote swing please post your range and media.

 

[benjuanman]

im only new to growing so my question is why do u have ur Ph swing from 5.1-6.1 in flower?
I've only grown hydro twice n i let my Ph swing from 5.5-6.0 coz i reckon it would let the plants get the most out the nutrient mixture. I've seen ur posts n u seem to know wat ur doin so im hopefully on the rite track by doin something similar. So could u elaborate on this further please

 

[gregor_mendel]

I don't have a vote for the perfect pH, but what do you think about the success some have with drain to waste? Each irrigation provides the same pH solution as the last.

That being said, I seem to get healthier plants from recirculating systems with pH swing (5.0 - 6.0) than I do with drain to waste.

 

[Scrogerman]

also swings & adjustments of 0.5-1.0+ at any one time(or 24h period) is known to cause unessasary stress's on the plant. 5.5-5.8 is where i aim as a general rule, give or take a point(or .2). upward ph drift is a good thing as you pointed out... a 0.3-0.5 daily drift im usually happy with.
sometimes ill adjust ph over a few hours! Ph is on a logarithmic scale(x10,x100-6,5,4 etc). i see people overlook stress caused by PH swings often.
theres always variables to consider, system, strain tolerance,environment etc etc.

 

[TheBioMaster]

First off that chart is for the media/root zone PH and NOT the solution PH, peeps tend to forget that part it seems.....

There is no perfect PH......but then again PH stability never caused any issues either and is very much a GOOD thing, always!!....whatever your issue was with the grow that you had trouble with when you kept the PH stable was not a stable PH I assure you, impossible really, I would bet it was all the crap you were adding to try and keep the ph stable more likely.....but it must have been something else, as keeping a rock steady PH will NOT do any harm....tested this time and time again.

You should not try to keep your PH at a constant anything......if it drifts out of the acceptable range, either to low or to high for the media that your using, then and only then should you adjust it.

It seems growers tend to over complicate the entire PH dilemma looking for a "Perfect PH"....

Also, the myth that 5.8 is a good PH for hydro is just plain wrong.....5.3 is a better PH for Hydro if your striving for that certain PH,......but again, trying to strive for ANY ph level is not a good idea.....as long as your within range of the media your using, then let it be.......if it goes out of the acceptable range for the media your using, then adjust.....period. You will never go wrong following that......

 

[Scrogerman]

Hey BM,
can you explain why 5.8 is not a good PH for hydro, i cant agree with your last comments entirely man. explain yaself? please!

ive never had any issues with 5.3-5.8 running NFT, DWC ever! that is usually where about im aiming. its about optimal absorption through the range. sometimes upto 6+ but then im adjusting.

Its not about media with RW/hydroton is it, its about the plant preference/absorption, their inert!

anyway ive not been down with that chart for a long time tbh, but as a rough guide its ok!

 

[TheBioMaster]

Actually, it would take many pages of txt to explain the chemistry behind why 5.3 is better than 5.8, we did a 2 year study on it in a lab, I can tell you that.

It has to do a lot with molecular scale, weight. and probes. There is a plethora of information out there on the topic.

I would not expect anyone to have issues running 5.3-5.8 PH range in NFT or DWC as they fall within the range of whats acceptable for that type of media.

Like I mentioned before, do not shoot for ANY range, as long as your within the acceptable range, do not adjust. If it goes out of the acceptable range, then adjust. Simple.

 

[Scrogerman]

what a waste of study i speak from experience man! period!..... i do sorta get what your saying, but you cant go saying 5.8 is the "Wrong" ph for Hydro, cause it just isnt bro"! simple as that!

What you dont wanna argue with the likes of the chemists/scientists from Canna etc do you?

anyway we do agree on the correct range, sorta! trying to lock down 5.8 is a bad thing, id agree with you there if thats what you meant!

 

[TheBioMaster]

No, I stop trying to educate people on public forums long time ago......think what you wish and run any PH you like my friend.

PS- I never said running 5.8PH is WRONG! I said that thinking its the BEST ph level to run and striving for that particular ph level is WRONG! Get it right please and do not put words in my mouth thank you......


Why the hell do people LOOK for an argument and try to put words in your mouth? Is it that or is the level of reading skills just really low???? ROFL!!!


Peace!

 

[GrowForIt]

I let mine swing from 5.6 to 6.2 in my flood trays, but the majority of the time they stay steady when nutes are at or near full strength. It may drop a bit when the plants are drinking more water then they are eating, or rise a bit when they are eating well, but for the most part ph stays stable in my system. If I had to pick a sweet spot I'd have to go with 5.9 in flood trays with hydroton.

 

[Scrogerman]

Also, the myth that 5.8 is a good PH for hydro is just plain wrong.....5.3 is a better PH for Hydro if your striving for that certain PH,......but again, trying to strive for ANY ph level is not a good idea.....as long as your within range of the media your using, then let it be.......if it goes out of the acceptable range for the media your using, then adjust.....period. You will never go wrong following that......

You say it clearly here man(post #6). I aint looking for an argument man. just the right info thats all friend! get ya shit together!

'The Myth that 5.8 is a good PH for Hydro is just Plain Wrong', how are new growers gonna take this?

you cant say shite like that without explaining yaself, pages or not! no offence or argument seeking at all!

anyway ya plain wrong, 5.3 for the whole grow phases is well wrong! IME, thats why i asked you to explain man, ok! i may of understood what you meant but it was how you worded it! its wrong!

ROTFL?, i even repped you before you started. whatever .

 

[TheBioMaster]

It was low reading skills......here is a quote from you....

what a waste of study i speak from experience man! period!..... i do sorta get what your saying, but you cant go saying 5.8 is the "Wrong" ph for Hydro, cause it just isnt bro"! simple as that!

Where did I say that 5.8 is the wrong PH exactly? Again, for the 3rd time now, I said thinking that 5.8 was the BEST ph is wrong??? Get it yet??? Hate to see you when you WERE looking for an argument.......wow....

And I hate to bust your un knowing bubble......but the test and EXPERIENCE is now showing that the ideal PH is even lower than 5.3.....like down into the 4 range...wow...I bet that really blows your mind huh???? Your experience I bet is flipping out right now after reading that I bet....ROFL......

 

[Scrogerman]

FFS, read post #6 carefully ffs! i even fkin quoted you(post#12)! get it right or dont bother! stick to ya Bio!

I aint into petty arguments man. i was just asking to explain your comment properly. we were even fkin agreeing really! not everyone would of understood what you meant. we have to understand alot of new growers will be reading what we are saying.

 

[edgey]

No, I stop trying to educate people on public forums long time ago......think what you wish and run any PH you like my friend.

PS- I never said running 5.8PH is WRONG! I said that thinking its the BEST ph level to run and striving for that particular ph level is WRONG! Get it right please and do not put words in my mouth thank you......


Why the hell do people LOOK for an argument and try to put words in your mouth? Is it that or is the level of reading skills just really low???? ROFL!!!


Peace!

sorry to get involved but if you did a 2 yr study in a lab then why not explain your findings?


no one is looking for an arguement but you imo , you gave an opinion but at the same time rubbished everyone elses opinion

 

[TheBioMaster]

Sorry edgy, I do not feel like posting 2 years worth of documentation, I was simply stating that we ran 2 years worth of test on different PH levels, what we found was that 5.8 was NOT the best PH to run and actually one of the test that did the worst.

What we did find was that letting the PH level do what it wanted, in other words change as it wanted as long as it was in the range of the proper levels, that the plants did the best and grew the most.

Thats all I was saying......

 

[TheBioMaster]

Doing continued and extended testing on this topic is showing now that even lower PH ranges are actually accepted. Like down in the 4 range.

 

[edgey]

Doing continued and extended testing on this topic is showing now that even lower PH ranges are actually accepted. Like down in the 4 range.

that goes against everything any grower has ever learnt , i've tried lower ph levels and higher and although 5.8 may not be perfect for 1 plant or growing medium it MAY be perfect for another so i can't work out how this 2 yr study can be used unless you run all mediums , methods and strains????

general thoughts are usually between 5.5 and 6.2 is ideally the ph you want

 

[Nvidia.]

Not much experience in hydro, but 5.8 is the best I've tasted

 

[edgey]

so where is the proof that ph levels in the 4's are good ?

just asking you to back up what you say ?