Need info on General Organics in Coco

[Snow Crash]

This is a nutrient line that I would like to learn more about. I have read quite a bit about it (including the threads here). A short time ago I picked up BioWeed and have been getting FANTASTIC root development with it. This has encouraged me to run the entire lineup. I would like to use General Organics entire system, plus some additions, as the nutrients for my next round after upgrading.

For those of you who do not know me I'll warn you up front.
I am not a K.I.S.S grower.

I would love some advice from anyone who uses General Organics, especially when running the entire lineup. I'll take anything though

After 3 years in Coco and Soilless Organic Coco mixes I want to take the things I have experienced and translate them into a superior system. The system I have in mind is organic if only for the sake of having an organic branding. The smell from an organic reservoir is not a concern for me as the area is away from my main living space and is very well ventilated.

Here's the concept:
Using 3 gallon buckets ala Hempy Style. The buckets would contain 1 gallon of GrowStone as a porous high oxygen material at the bottom. The upper 2 gallons would be Botanicare ReadyGro Aeration Mix and I would amend this mixture with Mycorrhiza earlier on, then add some Trichoderma and other beneficial microbes once the roots were set.

Here's the nutrient system:
Alternating full strength and 1/2 strength feedings. Waterings as frequent as required. I will make a 1% Mg solution from Epsom Salt. I use Uncle John's Blend as a resin enhancer, works amazing. I use Potassium Silicate as both a pH up and to help add silica. Everything else is General Organic.

Early Veg
GO BioThrive Grow: 5ml
GO CaMg+: 5ml
GO BioRoots: 5ml
GO Bioweed: 2.5ml
1% Mg Epsom Sol.: 5ml
0-0-3 K+Silica: 3ml

67|23|65 - 66/26

Late Veg
GO BioThrive Grow: 10ml
GO CaMg+: 8ml
GO BioRoots: 10ml
GO Bioweed: 2.5ml
1% Mg Epsom Sol.: 5ml
0-0-3 K+Silica: 3ml

132|46|109 - 105/34

Days 1-20 Transition and Stretch
GO BioThrive Grow: 5ml
GO BioThrive Bloom: 5ml
GO CaMg+: 8ml
GO BioRoots: 10ml
GO BioWeed: 2.5ml
GO BioBud: 2.5ml
1% Mg Epsom Sol.: 10ml
CES Uncle John's: 10ml
0-0-3 K+Silica: 3ml

109|52|168 - 104/47

Days 21-30 Early Flowering
GO BioThrive Grow: 5ml
GO BioThrive Bloom: 10ml
GO CaMg+: 7ml
GO BioRoots: 5ml
GO BioBud: 2.5ml
1% Mg Epsom Sol.: 10ml
CES Uncle John's: 10ml
0-0-3 K+Silica: 3ml

122|69|200 - 91/44

Days 31 to 40 Mid Flowering
GO BioThrive Bloom: 15ml
GO CaMg+: 6ml
GO BioBud: 2.5ml
GO BioMarine: 2.5ml
1% Mg Epsom Sol.: 15ml
CES Uncle John's: 10ml
0-0-3 K+Silica: 3ml

95|78|204 - 78/55

Days 41 to 50 Late Flowering
GO BioThrive Bloom: 15ml
GO CaMg+: 5ml
GO BioBud: 2.5ml
GO BioMarine: 5ml
1% Mg Epsom Sol.: 20ml
CES Uncle John's: 10ml
0-0-3 K+Silica: 3ml

107|86|209 - 65/65

Days 51 to 60 Swelling
GO BioThrive Bloom: 10ml
GO CaMg+: 2.5ml
GO BioBud: 2.5ml
GO BioMarine: 2.5ml
1% Mg Epsom Sol.: 20ml
CES Uncle John's: 15ml

68|55|162 - 33/59

Days 61 to 70 Ripe
Fulvic Acid: 5ml

 

[farmdalefurr]

i use bio root and i love it. its the only thing in their line up that ive used though. i have heard good things here and there

 

[Granger2]

There's a thread in the Organic Hydro forum. Worth checking out, though not very long. -granger

 

[Snow Crash]

There's a thread in the Organic Hydro forum. Worth checking out, though not very long. -granger

There's another in the Nutrients subforum as well as the General Hydroponics "forum." I have checked out several other growing sites and haven't seen much said against the stuff from people who use it.

Earth Juice is probably my best other option, I've been looking into Age Old Organics as well, but both will require a little too much amending ahead of time for success. Calcium isn't hard to come by in organic forms (I have about 4lbs of Oyster shell around here somewhere) but in coco I am much more familiar with having it in the reservoir. With the hempy concept I think this will be especially important as the root system will pull from the inch deep reservoir at the bottom.

Thanks for the look out. I've been on the prowl for a while to learn what I could but would really appreciate a knowledgeable grower with some input on General Organics versus other organic systems. I'm not open to ACT yet, perhaps next summer.

 

[ninjagaiden]

general organics calmag in a res will cause all sorts of bacteria growth and ph swings.

 

[Snow Crash]

This is Drain To Waste, not recirculating. This doesn't offer a lot of time for the pH to swing wildly. Organic Calcium products are general chelated using a large number of organic acids. These acids break down readily and easily once chewed on by the organics in the media and will create a misleading low pH level.

Reservoir maintenance will include daily mixing of nutrients 6 to 8 hours prior to use. If good bacteria are present, and the reservoir kept clean after feedings, then I have no concern. Any organic supplement high in carbohydrates will support bacterial colonies I don't think this is an issue that would be unique to CaMg+. I am taking the concern of unhealthy populations under advisement and will be sure to keep my eyes open. Just in case.

Thanks for your input.

 

[Mister_D]

I am currently growing satori f2's in approximately 50% coco 40% floor dry (similar to perlite) 10% peat/happy frog with the general organics line. As this is my first focused run with these nutes i'm am only using the grow and bloom, bioweed and possibly others will be added next round. I mix tap and ro water so no calmag is needed. Still dialing the nute profile for coco, but currently using 5ml per gal. grow and 5ml per gal. bloom fed at everywatering. This comes out to N-95ppm P-48ppm K-92ppm, very close to h3ad/rez's 6/9 ratio. I was feeding slightly heavier at 10ml grow and 5ml bloom, but the plants starting showing signs of lock-out (too much K) and slight overfeeding. I've been feeding at 5ml per for about a week now and the plants response has been excellent. I doubt I will need any further tweaking of the nutes, but if needed at all it will be a small change. Not sure how relevant my information will be to you, as I am more of a kiss grower. However it may give you some ideas of how strong you would like you nutes once all combined, and maybe help other people who read this thread. I have a grow log in the mandala forum that has better details of my coco journey with general organics. If anyone is interested it can be found here https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=4617631#post4617631 Good luck with your grow.

 

[Snow Crash]

Not sure how you are calculating your numbers but at 5ml/gallon on Both the BioThrive Grow and BioThrive Bloom you're really looking at more like:
79ppm|41ppm|77ppm

Not that the numbers are all that far apart but what I am calculating isn't quite as strong as what you are. Also, it's important not to compare apples to oranges by using the advice given to salt-based hydroponic systems for organics. Organic systems work in a completely different manner when it comes to the how the roots source the elements they need. There is some equivalent, or correlation, that can be made between the two but I don't think it will be wise to follow quite the same advice.

Perhaps... I guess I won't know until I try it. Based on your experience I guess it isn't totally outlandish to think that the lower levels will be all the plants require.

The BioWeed is some really great stuff though, huh? One of the better Seaweed extracts I have found around. My thought is that if this stuff works as well as it does then I'm betting the BioRoots is quality as well. Definitely do not go over 2.5ml/gallon of the BioWeed!!! The kelp based nutrient does contain a fair amount of sodium (naturally) and at excessive levels you could cause some of the cation issues you had seen before. I know that when I pushed it to 5ml per gallon I started seeing problems with my plants very soon.

I think it is interesting that you are not running any Calcium with this system instead relying on your tap water to provide the difference. If you could share the EC of your water, or perhaps find your water report (they mail it to you yearly) to share the tested ppm of Calcium in your tap. That might help other people who are looking for a ppm level to hit with calcium using RO water and a Cal-Mag supplement so that they can have healthy plants too.

Thanks for dropping by and sharing your experience. I still have a pretty decent amount of time before I get my next grow started and am welcoming any input!

 

[cyat]

I used it with coco, the full line. it needs a pk booster.

 

[scurred]

I've got a go box on order and I've been using coco successfully for a couple cycles now using gh flora , wouldn't mind trying a couple different general organics recipes for coco. I will try to remember to update the thread with progress, please keep me updated with any recipe changes

 

[Snow Crash]

I used it with coco, the full line. it needs a pk booster.

Good to know

 

[Mister_D]

I am using the cannastats calculator to come up with my levels. If you are using the same, did you put the liquid weight (grams per ml) for the grow and bloom into the calc? If not that would explain the close but slightly differing numbers. As far as the salts vs organics, it is important to note that most bottled organics go through a fermentation process before being bottled that mineralizes most if not all nutes making them for the purpose of measuring nute content the same as a salt based fert. Many people don't realize this and assume because it says organic on the bottle it must be processed by microbes in the soil. That is not to say that there are some bottled organics that require microbes to mineralize all or part of what is in the bottle before it becomes plant available. That is a whole different disscusion though. Your thinking is absolutely correct when refering to using meals or guanos either mixed into the media or made into a tea. As for feeding at much lower levels than many people use, I would advise you look up any of heath robinson's grows and then reconsider what many growers consider written in stone. That man yeilds better than anyone i've ever met and never goes over 1.2ec or 600ppm .5 conversion. Also uses a one part nute all the way from clone to harvest. Years of my own experience have confirmed this for me, but I don't have near the clout so it seems better to refer to growers that do. Another thing that is important to factor into the equation when growing in any media that isn't constantly being flushed is accumulation of nutes in the media over time. This is the reason many coco growers utilize run off, to flush excess salts (ie nutes). This practice becomes mostly unnecessary when using lower feed levels because the plants have only enough nutes for proper growth at any one time (h3ad talks about this in the h3ad goes coco thread, again refering to growers with more rep. than myself), making flushing excess a waste because there is not a great excess of nutes added to begin with. This method works well with coco because the water frequency is much higher than with some soils. Let me explain a little better. When growing in coco you generally water everyday, so you really only need enough nutes for 24 hours of growth. I water with nute at ~350-400 ppm @ .5 conversion. leaving my plants with enough food for 24 hours plus a little extra which builds up over the course of the grow cycle, acting as a buffer for periods of extreme growth. The excess nutes will also be used to feed the plants for the last three weeks prior to harvest when i give no nutrients. It is all part of a system I have developed to end up with a mostly inert medium at harvest time so I can reuse my media without having nutrient imbalances. Now if growing in soil and watering say every 3-5 days you need to add enough nutes for you plant to survive for 3-5 days with a slight excess for reasons stated above. Ultimately you are acheiving the same nute levels in the media just different methods of getting to the same end result. If any of that isn't making sense let me know and I will clarify as best I can. I have heard good things about bioweed, though i havn't read anything that tells me why it is better/worse than alg-a-mic or maxicrop etc. From what I understand maxicrop powder is the best bang for the buck, but I don't have any experience with it to make a comparison. I did use alg-a-mic with biobizz nutes for years with great results. Next round I plan to add either bioweed or maxicrop, which one is pending some more research into bioweed. I appreciate the heads up on bioweed dosing. Also hear good things about bioroot, and after looking at the ingredients I feel confident it works well for it's purpose. Comes down to does it work well enough to justify it's cost, as with everything in my grow. Ill probably test it out once i'm done testing the bioweed/maxicrop, I try to only change one variable at a time. Now then, calmag, I have done grows in several states at many locations and 99% of the time calmag is a waste of money. The only time I would use it is if my water was badly contaminated (high levels of heavy metals, salt, chemical pollutants etc.). I have been meaning to get a water test since I moved just out of curiousity, but as a general rule if water tastes ok it's probably ok to grow with. I work off the assumtion that most good tap water contains mostly calcium mag and some other micro nutes. If it is in the 100-200ppm @ .5 range then I will use it straight out of the tap and mix ro only if necessary. My water is 200-300ppm @ .5 out of the tap here so I mix with ro to achieve between 100-200ppm @ .5. I base this number off two things, first mel franks recommended levels are ca 60 ppm and mg 40 ppm I assume @ .5 also, and second most successfull growers using calmag in ro mix it at between 100-200ppm @ .5. Ultimately I see no reason to pay for another bottle when I already pay for water that contains the same elements.

 

[Mister_D]

Cyat - Did you use the whole line up per GH's feeding schedule? I followed their flowering schedule for most of my last bloom cycle and wasn't impressed at all. I did feel like using their schedule a PK boost was in order or at least would have been helpful. I am doubtful I will need any additions using 5ml grow and 5ml bloom all the way through, though time will tell. It is my opinion that a properly balanced feed schedule negates any need for additives. Pretty hard to argue with pulling 2-2.5 lbs per 600 with nothing but grow, bloom, dialed enviroment, and proper genetics.

 

[Snow Crash]

No. I am using the simple conversion of percentages to ppm.

If "one percent" is 1/100 then "parts per million" is 1/1,000,000. PPM is a more accurate representation of a percentage making the conversion very easy to do. Simply take the percentage of the element listed on the bottle and multiply it by 10,000 to get the ppm in the bottle.

The next step is to multiply that value by the number of ml that will be added to the reservoir.

The final step is to divide the value of (ppm x ml) by the total number of ml of the solution.

In this case, for nitrogen:

BioThrive Grow 4-3-3
4% x 10,000 = 40,000ppm
40,000ppm x 5ml = 200,000ppm ml
200,000ppm ml / 3790ml = 52.77ppm

BioThrive Bloom 2-4-4
2% x 10,000 = 20,000ppm
20,000ppm x 5ml = 100,000ppm ml
100,000ppm ml / 3790ml = 26.39ppm

52.77ppm + 26.39ppm = 79.16ppm Nitrogen.

I have noticed that Cannastats regularly gives a higher value then should be calculated based on the labeled volumes. This might be an attempt to compensate for what is unlisted on the label, though you must consider that the levels they are giving you are about 20% higher then I have shown should be the calculation. Simple math stuff.

When it comes to Coco I know my way around the stuff very well. If you take a look around you'll see that I am extremely well read and experienced with the media. I understand the need for clean, quality, water sources as well as the proper levels to scale my Calcium ppm's back from given the maturity level of the media. I do not "estimate" what the plant is consuming or not consuming hoping that I am not feeding just 50ppm too much each time. I work with runoff because in a given grow I might only spend $200 on nutrients, I might only use $150, and only $50 of that really "goes down the drain." For the peace of mind and assurance the plants have access to what I am feeding them for their given time of life (rather than an averaging of what has yet to be consumed) I can/will/have harvested pounds of clean healthy buds.

There are two schools of thought on the matter. One that says feed low strength without runoff and hope you don't overfeed. The other that says feed the plant what it wants when it wants it and ensure there is no buildup. I work with runoff because $50 to me isn't a big deal when I'm harvesting 500 grams.

In the premise for this thread I spoke about my use of a Hempy-esque coco grow and how I'm planning to use the nutrients a little differently then perhaps other people have. I would really like to know if, based on your experiences, you feel like a high aeration style media (70% a 60/40 coco perlite mix with 30% being Growstones at the bottom) would require any different treatment.

If there was anything you'd do different with the system next time around, or what you learned about brewing it, is fantastic information to have on hand as well.

Thank you for the time you've offered!

 

[Mister_D]

Excellent posts snow crash, I am finding this discussion very stimulating. First off I see nothing wrong with your math as it pertains to N, but when considering P only some of the listed percentage, I am strongly medicated at the moment and forget the percent, is available to your plants. Also I am unsure if it matters with your formula, but the density of the liquid may also play into the math? Did you compensate for these factors? I honestly havn't gotten too deep into understanding the mathamatical formulas for calculating individual nutrients, kinda left it be after finding the cannastats program. As for it being off you may be right about that, but I don't have firm enough grasp of the required knowledge to say either way. Also most grower profiles (h3ad, rez, lucas, etc) I have used as a base to work off of were created using this program. As a result it may not be totally accurate, but it works when using other ferts to recreate proven formulas which were also created with the same program. Always good to learn new ways of doing something though. I agree that 50 dollars of nutes down the drain is a small expense, but I don't see any reason to waste nutes with no gain. To me it's like lighting a 50 dollar bill on fire just because I have more of them. I disagree on your two schools of thought theory. I don't feed low strength and "hope" i'm not overfeeding. I understand on average how much a plant is eating at a given stage of it's life and how nutrients accumulate in an unflushed media. Using that knowledge to my advantage, I create a proper feeding program that ensures that my plants always have enough of each element available without exceeding the stress threshold (burning). People that feed at higher strength and flush frequently are simply giving near the maximum amount of feed a plant can take without showing stress. Obviously you can't continue feeding at these levels without flushing out the built up excess nutes (salt) from the last watering. To be more clear for illustration purposes. My media starts out at 0 ppm. I feed at 300ppm with no run off. Over the course of the grow this builds up to say 900ppm, or close to stress threshold. Three weeks prior to harvest I begin feeding with tap or tap/ro mix and the ppm goes down as the plant consumes the accumulated nutrients leaving me again with 0 ppm by harvest (I am simpilifying for illustrative purposes). Now take a person who is feeding with run off. Generally they will start with lower ppm's and work up in strength as a plant gets bigger. For a clone, say 400 ppm. So first watering they go from 0 ppm to 400 ppm, plant uses say 200ppm of that by next watering leaving 200ppm left over in the media. Next watering again at 400 ppm now the media is at 600ppm plant again uses 200ppm leaving 400 ppm. If a grower continued on this path his/her media would become very hot in short order and plants would burn. So to counter act this run off is produced to push the excess nutes from the watering before out of the media and maintain the input ppm's. So in the grower is literally wasting nutes just to satisfy a desire to feed at a higher strength, instead of acheiving the same ppm in the media by feeding less at each watering and allowing it to build up slowly as the plant grows and requires more food. The end result is the same ppm in the media, but one method requires 10-20% more food to accomplish this. Makes no sense to me why anyone would willingly want to waste nutes/money/water, without gaining anything from it. I don't understand your logic for thinking that somehow flushing allows better access to nutes in the media? Could you explain your reasoning? To me you are flushing out perfectly good nutes to replace them with new but the same perfectly good nutes. To answer you question about the hempy buckets, the only change I could see being necessary is possibly a slightly shorter flush at the end, and obviously watering more often. This is because the more media you mix in that doesn't hold nutrients (perlite, growstones etc) the less reserve nutes you will have at the end to use up. Just brings you closer to full on hydro basicly. Not sure what system you are talking about doing things differently in? If you mean my system of growing, there is nothing I have a desire to change at the moment. I have been dialing it into my liking for many years now, and it is nearly perfect for me. Though I will admit small changes are being implimented as my knowledge grows and new more productive techniques are brought to light. Most recent has been the switch to full on vertical lighting, changing to general organics, and altering my nute profile. I assume by "brewing it" you mean bottled organics being fermented? If so basicly nute companies (gh in this case) make a batch of what amounts to nutrient tea, add the appropriate bacteria, provide the proper enviroment for them to grow and feed on the raw ingredients turning them into mineralized nutes. Once the nutes are mineralized the tea is either pasturized or enough acid is added to kill all the microbes and stablize the tea for bottling. In essence they take care of what would normally happen with raw organic nutes in the soil prior to bottling. If I have misunderstood anything you said feel free to correct me and ask again. I'm loving the exchange of knowledge in this thread, and hope it will be of value to you and others that may read it.

 

[Mister_D]

Also while i've got you here. What can you tell me about growstones? I came accross them recently and they are very interesting, a bit expensive but interesting. Are you using the hydro or soil version? I was considering using them as a replacement to perlite in my coco before coming across floor dry. Started a thread to ask about them but I didn't get any relevant responses.

 

[Snow Crash]

1. First off I see nothing wrong with your math as it pertains to N, but when considering P only some of the listed percentage, I am strongly medicated at the moment and forget the percent, is available to your plants.

2. Also I am unsure if it matters with your formula, but the density of the liquid may also play into the math?
Did you compensate for these factors?

3. I understand on average how much a plant is eating at a given stage of it's life and how nutrients accumulate in an unflushed media. To be more clear for illustration purposes. My media starts out at 0 ppm. I feed at 300ppm with no run off. Over the course of the grow this builds up to say 900ppm, or close to stress threshold. Three weeks prior to harvest I begin feeding with tap or tap/ro mix and the ppm goes down as the plant consumes the accumulated nutrients leaving me again with 0 ppm by harvest (I am simpilifying for illustrative purposes).

4. I don't understand your logic for thinking that somehow flushing allows better access to nutes in the media? Could you explain your reasoning?

5. I assume by "brewing it" you mean bottled organics being fermented?

6. Also while i've got you here. What can you tell me about growstones?

7. Are you using the hydro or soil version?

I numbered them to help make our discussion more linear.

1. "P" as labeled is actually P2O4 and is only 44% elemental phosphorus. "K" as labeled is actually K2O and is only 83% elemental Potassium. Nitrogen, though in a variety of forms, is labeled at its true elemental value. All elements are listed at only their guaranteed concentrations and the solution will inevitably contain a small amount extra.

2. I personally do not have the kind of accurate equipment that would be required to measure the density of the product and translate that information given my altitude. I simply work with the easy math stuff and assume there's a little extra in there. Generally I like to calculate out my expected levels then in the grow room I use the EC meter to ensure the final solution does not have an excessively high conductivity.

3. I think you have some confusion about how osmosis and Cation Exchange works. The two work in a high pressure/low pressure system that depends on the plant's need for water. A plant cannot take 300ppm of elements and eat all of them because the media wants to retain those elements itself. What happens is the two systems balance out. When a grower takes a 0ppm media and adds 300ppm to it then the plant will ebb nutrients in and out going up to 200ppm in the plant and 100ppm out but eventually balancing out at 150ppm in and 150ppm out. The next feeding at 300ppm brings both levels, in the plant and in the media, higher to the goal concentration. Since I cannot ask my plant "How much calcium did you consume yesterday," then I have to simply assume that it consumed "some but not all" and it is wiser for me to wash out residual before contributing to an accumulation. Not that I think you're not growing like this but it sounds to me like you're taking a hydroponic media (coco) and running it like a pre-amended organic system but by adding a little of these "amendments" slowly over time. IMO, if you don't want to drain-to-waste because you cannot stomach a couple dollars down the drain to dial the plants in properly then you may as well just grow in an amended organic coco mix. Doesn't get any cheaper then "Just add water!"

4. First of all I do not flush until the end of flowering, I am adamant about it despite certain peoples opinions on the matter as I have experienced both products and know which I prefer. What I do, and as what all coco mfg's suggest growers do, is to RINSE the media with a lower concentration solution. I then measure the EC of what was removed to ensure that there is no deviance between what I am adding and what is required. Once the media and the plant have balanced at say... 600ppm then when I increase my feedings to 800ppm I will see the balance in the measurements from the runoff. Once the plant has balanced with the media at 800ppm I can then hold my feeding levels at that strength and know that the plant is getting what I am giving it. From my perspective I don't see the point in calculating anything on your end if you're just averaging what is in the planter anyway. There is no direct knowledge of what has been consumed, this is impossible without some crazy hardware, and as a result you're just adding more "butter, flour, salt" to a mystery mixture. By using runoff, and rinsing the media with 1/2 strength nutrient solution to 40% runoff, I get the opportunity to measure the runoff EC and I am the one who can actually determine just how "hungry" the plant is. You're left guessing in the dark without some way of measuring the media, and without runoff... It's not possible without a slurry test. This allows me complete control over what the plant has access to as well as valuable and accurate (as accurate as we can be) knowledge as to how much of what I am adding is necessary. Over time this data paints a picture for a given strain and allows the grower to know they are giving the plant what it wants when it wants it. You might be getting results, and I don't doubt that, but what I strongly doubt is that a plant subject to an averaged nutrient profile doesn't have the chance to maximize its genetic potential. Runoff is not expensive to manage, especially in comparison. Some growers might only run a few plants, maybe just 1 gallon of runoff per day. At about 0.10 per gallon in runoff, on a 90 day grow that's only $9 down the drain. Seriously? $9... I spend more at Taco Bell on a Tuesday.

5. No, I am not referring to how organic nutrients are made. If you'd like a good video on that process I'd suggest searching for Cutting Edge Solutions on YouTube. There's some mouthy grower that goes into the factory and gets first hand access to the big brewers and steamers. What I was talking about in regards to how you are "brewing" your nutrients after mixing them. Are you running an air stone in your bucket/reservoir or a water pump or anything? Or do you just mix the General Organics up in the solution and toss them in after a good stir? I'm more interested in how YOU do YOUR brewing. If I wanted to know how GO is making their stuff I'll just send GO an email and get it straight from the horses mouth.

6. Growstones are the shiznitobamsnipsnapsammy. I picked them up originally as a chunky perlite replacement but they work for other ways. They resemble lava rock more then they do perlite and there is a pretty good variety of size as they break fairly easy. I have managed to clean the stones out of my coco after grows and have reused them successfully several times now (so despite being expensive there can be some reuse possible. What I see happening is that the roots attach themselves to the stones in the same way vines climb up stucco walls. The roots then branch out like spider webs all around the stone sticking little fingers into each of the pores. I like them quite a bit and find them to be an intuitive improvement on perlite, hydroton, and lava stones.

7. Dude... Didn't even know they had two types. I don't have the bag anymore but for what it's worth the stones ranged in size from about 2 inches to 1/2 an inch, like small river stones, ovular, or sorta "cat poop" shaped and sized. They are pink... I'll have to look into that a little more but I don't know what the difference would be between the two. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[Mister_D]

1. Thats what I was talking about forgot to throw K in there as well. Little jack herer goes a long way.......

2. The cannastats calc factors density of a liquid by using g per mL. Like I said I didn't bother memorizing the formulas after finding the cannastats calc. It doesn't make a huge difference with most liquid ferts, but with the thicker ones it can be off by a uncomfortable amount.

3. I understand the concept fine. Your method of watering to run off is principally the same as what I do. Both of us adjust the strength of feedings based on plant size. I accomplish this by allowing nutes to build up in the media, you accomplish the same thing by starting off with weaker nutes and increasing the strength as the plant gets larger. While flushing out whatever was left over at every watering. My method takes more practice, but becomes extremely simiple once a formula is dialed in. Your method is again similar because you have to learn when to up the feedings by watching the plants. I have the advantage of only making one nute mix for clone til flush, very handy in perpetual style grows I typically run. If you don't think the same strength feed can keep plants optimally fed, I suggest you type heath robinson into the icmag search or google. If yeilds are the yard stick by which we measure our grows, heath owns the golden ruler. Or check out any of h3ads grows, he feeds just like I do in coco and his plants look exceptionally healthy, no run off. I would gladly dump 200 dollars worth of nutes down the drain if I thought it would improve my yeild by a worthwhile amount. Money is not at all the issue. I have been getting 2-2.5lbs per 600w in a custom coco mix with no run off for several years now. That tells me I don't need to dump any nutes down the drain to achieve happy high yeild plants. I've offered you some other examples that it works and very well at that. So again it comes back to lighting a 50 on fire just because i've got another one, just don't see the benefit.

4. I don't need run off to tell me if my plant is eating alot or a little. I can see it in the growth rate of the plant. As well as by looking at the leaves. There are indicators before the text book signs of deficency/burn that allow me to know if my plants are being under/over fed, or if they are right where they need to be. This is all part of dialing in a working formula. Again we are achieving the same result, you just feel the need to check and control things with a meter vs reading the plant and making adjustments based on their health. I would be willing to bet that if we both took samples at the same time during the growth cycle and measured EC it would be very similar at any point in the plants lives.

5. I am well aware of how my nutes are manufactured, didn't understand your meaning is all. I treat my nutes just like chems, add in proper ratio to the bucket, stir and apply by hand. There is plenty of sugar in the general organics, so if a person desired to add some bacteria they could toss an air stone in and brew for 12-24 hours. The nutes are all mineralized already, but theres nothing wrong with adding some extra microbes to the media.

6. Probably just going to have to grab a bag or three in that case. I did a good amount of looking into them awhile back. They are made of recycled glass bottles, so they are total inert and ph neutral. I have grown with lava rock in the mix and witnessed the same thing, part of the reason I found these so interesting. Floor dry is kicking the shit out perlite right now though, but i'm a fan of diversity in particle size.

7. Yes might be a newer thing but it is just different sized rocks. Somthing like 1/2"-1" rocks and the other is 1 1/2"-2" rocks

 

[inreplyavalon]

Good read. Mister D how long do you leave the GO grow and bloom in a res for? Wondering if i can leave it for a week and not have it go bad on me? I only clean my res at the end of the grow cycle because access is limited once the cycle begins.

 

[Mister_D]

A week is seriously pushing it with any bottled organic. I found that general organics on it's own wil last about 3 days before it gets that rotten smell, possibly longer if you used a powerhead or airstone. I found that adding activated EM-1 at about 5ml per gallon I could have a res for 5-6 days before it started to stink. I didn't get any buildup in my res during a 12 week cycle, so you're good there. That might have been due to the em-1 though so ymmv. If you want an organic bottle that will last a bit longer without much added help look into pure blend pro. I'm not currently using the GO, switched to the flora series because I was planning to be gone for a few weeks. All in all GO is a solid nute that preforms well for what it was designed for...... hand watering or small res dripper systems.