Confusing curlies...seedling

[MoeBudz^420]

Hey folks, this little problem is driving me mad. I have read every similar thread posted in this infirmary (had to go thru over 700) and overwatering is the common diagnosis, follwed by PH. Let me assure, it is not the case, these remain the same wet or dry, and my PH is in order.

Here's the parameters:

Medium : Straight Promix BX, topdressed w/ a couple tbsp composted sheep today - an effort to provide small amounts of nutes w/o burning em, as seedlings shouldn't really need to/be ferted...an experiment seeking improvement/recovery.

Watering - only when cups are bone dry & light - every 3-4 days. they have had only like 3 waterings - I know well enuff not to overwater. But when they're dry, you gotta water - curly or not.

Lamp, height, temps: 600 aircooled hps, about 18" above. Temps, lights on 82-83, off 10 cooler. Will drop as it cools in autumn.

PH, PPM going in: 6.0 (yellow w/ drops), 150 ppm.

Runoff: 6.0 PH, 350 PPM

They are also stunted - this is week 3 after breaking surface, they should be twice the size...

Thought the white plastic I had on tent walls may be offgassing - replaced it w/ Mylar... no change.

Here's a curly little bugger.. all are the same.




Peace

 

[MoeBudz^420]

Looking happier this AM, that same plant's leaves were flat(ter) but some others are still curly. they are still damp & heavy from yesterday's watering, so a look was all that happened today.

I notice a difference in size today as well, they have grown some. Since it seems we're stumped, if I do cure this, I'll post it up.. I think they're hungry, will feed one full strength veg nutes next watering to see what happens.

Edit: Did check roots yesterday... had to be gentle so medium wouldn't crumble, the roots are just reaching the sides but what I saw was white and fuzzy roots.

Same plant as pictured above today:







Peace

 

[Chamez]

I know that you said that you dont think that you over watered, but thats what it looks like. Did you cut drainage holes in the bottom of the cups?

 

[MoeBudz^420]

Yes, of course. I looked at pix of overwatering in the garden saver book. The droop pictured is different - in the book, overwatered blades droop downwards from the point where the blades come together @ the stem. They do hang downwards, but the blades themselves lack that extreme curl seen here. This curl also goes hand in hand with a light green colour... much lighter than normal, more lime green.

I would actually call it a curl, not a droop - as plant is turgid + stiff, not droopy + limp. Just tightly curled up with limegreen colour...

I know low PH and iron def can cause light colour/ paleness. What frustrates me is when all readings are good and you still see this type of crap. Do everything, water less, feed less/more/flush, and nothing changes. Drives me mad.

Still experimenting, there is no way in H-E-Double hockeystix that when a cup of promix is weightless that it is too wet. They were dry enough to feed this am, about 1/3 weight of a fully watered beercup, so I fed em all w/850 ppm A+B grow. Not to runoff, but just a splash.

We'll see. I thought food 'cuz they have been curled like this from their first true leaves, thru a normal wet/dry cycle & when I ppm'd the straight rainwater I was using it was only 10 ppm.

Has anyone actually had + cured babies that look like this? The only difference from all my other healthy seedstarts is that these were put under 600 hps in tent instead of my normal upstairs fluoro seedstart/clone space (ambients too hot, it is summer)

Normal seedstarts from past:



Will update, at the very worst I do have a set of "guinea pigs" to try and figure this out. if I do, I will share...





Peace

 

[Raedwulf]

I thought food 'cuz they have been curled like this from their first true leaves, thru a normal wet/dry cycle & when I ppm'd the straight rainwater I was using it was only 10 ppm.

I'm no expert (and I really must stress that), but nonetheless I think you're spot on. I used to grow in promix. You seem to be doing everything right, and you clearly know what you are doing, but it looks (to me) like they're mostly hungry for nitrogen.

Could it be that they were getting sufficient moisture to maintain turbidity in the stem, but insufficient nitrogen for the chlorophyl process to work in the leaves properly - this might also explain their slow growth rate?

But why or how this is happening, I have no idea, sorry.

Anyway, that's my worth.

Genuinely hope you sort this one out dude - its a curious one.

 

[RetroGrow]

They look hungry. It's not like they are new seedlings. They are 3 weeks old and should have been fed already. Also, hard to be sure from pictures, but it looks like the mix needs aeration. I would repot using some perlite in the mix and feed them.

 

[Canniwhatsis]

Again, I know you say your PH is spot on,... but different strains like different things,... is this a new strain for you?

Your previous seedlings look really good, but you mentioned that these ones are under you HPS, and something about ambient temps, but nothing specific about your seed start and clone cab or current temps.

I've seen several other threads where growers had curling issues in vege under HPS, what's your wattage and light temp ("k") of your floro's that you normally start seeds under?

 

[MoeBudz^420]

Improvement

Improvement

Yesterday:



Today:



Seems we have hit the nail on the head, today shows a big improvement over yesterday. They are still too wet to water today, so a look was all I did.

N/M the yellow colour, that's the lights. They are green in white light. Plan on adding extra perlite, dolomite, and maybe a little sheep compost into the promix at the first transplant.

Thanx again for the help.



Peace

 

[Leone Marwin]

Medium : Straight Promix BX, topdressed w/ a couple tbsp composted sheep today - an effort to provide small amounts of nutes w/o burning em, as seedlings shouldn't really need to/be ferted...an experiment seeking improvement/recovery.

Seedlings need some mild fertilizer too, how else would they grow, you just have to dilute it slightly.
Also ProMix has no fertilizer in it so you must add some before you put your plants in.
I am pretty much positive you have underfed this babies. Of course you don't need much fertilizer if your soil has already some in it, but you are using ProMix which has none fertilizer.

In my experience, when using ProMix I would mix it with earthworm castings or I would mix some bat guano and mix it with ProMix. Otherwise if I don't I would have same problem like you. Even seedlings need some fertilizer to grow, especially if you put them under 600W HPS which cause them to grow faster so they need more food. I am absolutely positive you were clearly underfeeding these babies.

 

[MoeBudz^420]

Me too, thanx for the input...


Edit: Looking better, we seem to have beaten this problem...





Peace

 

[MoeBudz^420]

Just to update, yes the problem was solved and they have been upcanned + are doing fine now. Will be flipped soon, maybe after another week or so of veg.

They are growing like "bad weeds"





Peace

 

[dgr]

+K Nothing better than a follow up to a problem. So many problems disappear because the OP never provides results.