Root Rot

[JOJO420]

I went into my tent today and smelled this funky smell. I looked at the roots on the bottom of the pots and sure enough, Root Rot...
It seemed in the early stage, as the roots were only slightly discolored and the smell was a new thing. I think it actually started last week when I had the roomie help with the watering as I was outa town. This guy just never gets it right. I am getting Blumats ASAP...
The plants are on Day 20 of flowering, and I am wondering what I can do to kill the funky smell and get my roots back on track?
I have read most of the Root Rot threads and I am still confused about what works and what does not.
Can anyone tell what to safely use on flowering plants to kill root rot in coco before I lose the element of quickly doing something beneficial. I really do not want this to progress any farther.

 

[MIway]

Dry the coir out... catch it right before it goes bone dry & starts to wilt. Repeat.

How'd he get the rot to form in coir?

 

[VagPuncher]

Ridomil Gold SL.

 

[JOJO420]

How'd he get the rot to form in coir?

You know, I think it's because he bottom fed the plants and let them sit in the solution for days at a time without draining.. That's the only thing I can think of.
Im stumped as I have never dealt with this in coco coir, ever.
The first clue that I was dealing with root rot, was downward curling leaves, Ram Horned they call it. I thought it was an overdose of Nitrogen at first, but after cutting the micro down and completely cutting the cal mag out, it continued.

Identification, Symptoms and Damage of Root Rot
Symptoms:
Initial:
# Yellowed, droopy and wilting leaves (possibly exhibiting mineral deficiencies). Leaf curl over - ram's horns' - roots are unable to uptake nutrients at that strength because they are infected.
# pH becomes more acidic (pH should rise slowly in a healthy system)
# 'Burnt' root tips (browning tips may also be a result of light exposure, or over fertilization)
# Reduced water consumption and rising nutrient strength
# Brown colored roots. (Note: GH "Micro" will stain roots brown as well; stain darkens @ ppm's. Healthy root should be white or slightly tan)

Advanced:
# Brown and slimy roots with a slight to strong rotting odor. Plant may appear healthy.
# Reddish and swollen root collar, becoming blackened over time. Eventually the plant will fall over as all connecting tissue will have been 'eaten away'.

Note: Root damage is permanent; new root hairs can form, but damaged roots will not regenerate. Lightly infected roots may turn white again if treated promptly.

Then this funky smell started. I now realize that my plants were suffering from root rot, not overfertilization.
Root rot comes from not enough dissolved oxygen in the soution, thus my idea it came from sitting in solution for days.

 

[Ai Ze]

h202 , submerge the pots into a 3% solution ... repeat daily for a few days, done

 

[JOJO420]

Ridomil Gold SL.

Holy crikey, this stuff is $129.99 for a 16 oz bottle http://compare.ebay.com/like/360319302750

h202 , submerge the pots into a 3% solution ... repeat daily for a few days, done

I have read countless threads that this will only somewhat mask the problem not solve it.
Can anyone say for sure if this will work?
If it does work,I am doing it first thing in the morning. How much h2o2 per gallon to get the 3%?
I'm also considering buying a bottle of Hydroguard. Does the Hydroguard work? It's only $15-18 a bottle, and that's in my budget right now..

 

[Ai Ze]

it worked for me a couple of times ...

it all depends of the strength of the h2o2 solution, ie its no problem even to submerge cuttings into a 30% solution, if its only done for the period of some seconds and then washed off with pure water, also its true a 3% solution might not be strong enough to kill all pathogens

so its a bit of testing to find the right strenght of the solution, to kill pathiogens, but not to oxidize roots

to prepare a solution, we need to know first whats your initial h2o2 solution, dry (from haircutters) or a fluid (from the drugstore), there a several different starting bottles from 1% to 3% to 18% and even 30%

to get a 3% solution for a gallon from a 30% stock soultion, u devide it with 10, so 100 ml of 30% into 1000ml of water .. gives you a 3% solution, sorry im metric, so to get one gallon of this, just multiply roughly with 4 ... so, 400ml of 30% into 4 liters (1 gallon) of water, and there you go ...

i hope someone confirms this math for me ... just woke up lol

 

[JOJO420]

Picked up some GH Flora Shield and h202. I hope this works. I will let everyone know how it turns out.

 

[Granger2]

JOJO,

Here's the way I'd fight it. I would not use more than 3 teaspoons/15ml of 3% per gallon. I'd first use plain pH'd water with H2O2. Let the plants almost wilt before applying more water.

I'd use a half strength bloom nute mix [high in P], but no PK or or other bloom stim products. Also use your calmag and trace with you're regular additives with the addition of a root stimulator and 2nd dose of H2O2. IMNSHO, silicate is of value.

Aerating all liquid feedings is a plus-with or without root rot. Hit them with H2O2 4 consecutive times, allowing the plants to almost wilt, better yet, to slightly wilt before feeding. Use root stim till you think they've re-rooted sufficiently.

After the 4 apps of peroxide, inoculate the roots with Hydro
guard which is now called Aquashield, or even better, something with tricoderma and mycorhizal like Plant Success Soluble, Great White, GH Subculture [use both] or AN's 2 products. This is an excellent preventive. Don't inoculate along with H2O2, since the peroxide will kill the beneficials also.

I've used this method with success, twice before. Problems were brought on by letting them sit in runoff.

I'd be careful with too strong a peroxide solution. Three tsp/gal will do the job without causing even more root damage. Buena suerte. Let us know how it turns out. -granger

 

[punkp88]

try dutchmaster zone for a bit

 

[thefatman]

Prevention of the problems leading to root rot issues/and or Pyth issues and subsequent root rot are a lot easier.

Yellow roots are OK/recoverable, dark brown to black is rotted.

I agree that Ridomil Gold SL by soil drench is the best treatment to kill Pyth caused disease and follow that with water containing H2O2 for oxidizing to deal with the already dead roots. Also remember H2O2 is not a good disinfectant but it is strong oxodizer.

 

[Granger2]

fatman,

You're right about prevention being the best. I'm not familiar with ridomil, but I assume it is a heavy duty disinfectant, and that it will do the job. What's the cost?

However, H2O2 IS a good disinfectant, and has worked for me in numerous ways. I wouldn't put it up against bleach, but it works well, and in this application, when not overdone, doesn't cause more damage to already weakened roots. It also helps the roots and hinders the pathogens with O2.

If the problem gets severe before it is dealt with, an initial application of ridomil or some other more heavy duty disinfectant, followed by peroxide as you suggest, may be best.
-granger

 

[JOJO420]

Ok , here is what I did. I did this over 24 hrs ago and everything is FINE!!
I used the 3% straight out the bottle and the Florashield at 10ml a litre of r/o water.
Here is how I did it.
Dumped a 32Fl oz bottle of CVS pharmacy brand h202 in a sterile plastic tub. It was about 1/2 " deep of h202. I then pulled the nasty dead roots off the bottom of the 7" x"7 pot. I then put the plant in the h202 to soak. I left it in there till it felt right. Drained and repeated.
I then did a run to waste drench on the tent plants consisting of 40ml Florashield to a gal of r/o water.
On one clone and one mother plant I ran 40ml Florasheild and .4 ml Drip Clean to a gallon of R/O water.
BOTH WORKED MARVELOUS!!
I noticed an immediate difference.
I fed them this in the morning and that evening I was able to give them the regular feeding. They responded with a burst of new flowers
Im back on track!!

 

[thefatman]

fatman,

You're right about prevention being the best. I'm not familiar with ridomil, but I assume it is a heavy duty disinfectant, and that it will do the job. What's the cost?

However, H2O2 IS a good disinfectant, and has worked for me in numerous ways. I wouldn't put it up against bleach, but it works well, and in this application, when not overdone, doesn't cause more damage to already weakened roots. It also helps the roots and hinders the pathogens with O2.

If the problem gets severe before it is dealt with, an initial application of ridomil or some other more heavy duty disinfectant, followed by peroxide as you suggest, may be best.
-granger

H2O2 is only a disinfectant in that it is a reactive oxygen species. It kills by oxidation . Hydrogen peroxide works as a disinfectant because of its ability to act as an antimicrobial agent. This means that it is able to quickly kill bacteria. When hydrogen peroxide encounters bacteria, it quickly oxidizes some of the components of the outside of the bacteria. This can not only be toxic to them, but can punch holes in the membrane that the bacteria use to protect and contain themselves. As a result, the bacteria quickly die. Because H2O2 is a strong oxidant it also cause damage to roots.

Chlorine is a weaker oxidant but a stronger disinfectant. Chlorine kills pathogens such as bacteria and viruses by breaking the chemical bonds in their molecules. Chlorine in water has a residual effect that can last 12 to 24 hours or more in a ckosed system.

Chlorine is one of the most widely used disinfectants. It is very applicable and very effective for the deactivation of pathogenic microorganisms. Chlorine can be easily applied, measures and controlled. Is is fairly persistent and relatively cheap.

Read more: http://www.lenntech.com/processes/disinfection/chemical/disinfectants-chlorine.htm#ixzz1V4TSzbI6
​

So it is not that H2O2 is not a disinfectant it is a matter of it being a poorer disinfectant than chlorine and as chlorine is not a strong oxidant it does not readily kill good roots tissues as does H2O2.

 

[Granger2]

fatman,

I consider something that kills bacteria to be a disinfectant, regardless how it does it. Maybe that's not the technical definition of a disinfectant. Don't know.

Root damage with peroxide, or most anything is relative to strength of solution.

I recounted what has worked for me. I won't try to tell someone else that what has worked for them is wrong.

JOJO went a different way, and hopefully that will fix his problem.
-granger

 

[PoopyTeaBags]

Bleach works well.....

4mls per TEN gallons of water first application. every other day after first application add 2mls per ten gallons.

done it myslef in hydro it does work....

 

[JOJO420]

Root Rot go away

Root Rot go away

Hi everyone, thanks for all the great advice. I beat the root rot using the protocol I layed out previously and am flying along. Now I know what to do next round to avoid root rot and also deal with it if it ever happens again. I am now thinking I can drop the FloraShield from daily use to weekly application. I will start them back on the .4ml Drip Clean with daily use. Im really excited to see the results knowing I won't get max yields, but damn close. These plants responded 110% to my treatment and I could not be happier