Yellowing and limp leaves with H&G

[michigan.mmma]

I recently switched from rockwool to coco and am currently using 3gallon fabric pots and H&G full line of nutes mixing as the feeding schedule suggests. i am getting some yellowing on the leaves that i have not seen from this strain grown in DWC or rockwool. i thought maybe i got them too close to the lights so i moved them farther away. its happening now on a different strain in coco so im thinking maybe something with the nutes.

i only have a camera phone so its hard for me to capture the yellow spots but i think you can see them in some of the pics.

i have also noticed that at then end of the 18hrs of light, the plants seem to look tired or beat down versus when the light is on at the beginning of the day and throughout the middle of the day. i have grown these under 24hrs before and they were perky the whole time.

i am using tap water that is bubbled for 24hrs with a ppm of ~100 from the faucet. H&G per the feed schedule for each plant, 5.8 ph and hand watering, about 1.4ec for largest plant and 1.0 for smaller ones. veg tage under t-5 48" 8 bulb. i was using GH lucas formula when i was in DWC and rockwool and never got this yellowing on these strains.
sorry about the pics quality but im going to try to show the yellowing and side by side of the plants early in the day and before lights out.

 

[michigan.mmma]

end and start of day

 

[BlueberryNutz]

one of my plants is doing the same thing. she is a mom thats about 3 months old. mine is much worse. ive foliar fed and tried a bunch of shit. other than the color she is growing fine. im taking a shitload of clones and then flowering them. only one out of three is doing it on mine. are you using the foliar spray they sell. im not and im thinking that may have something to do with it?

 

[michigan.mmma]

one of my plants is doing the same thing. she is a mom thats about 3 months old. mine is much worse. ive foliar fed and tried a bunch of shit. other than the color she is growing fine. im taking a shitload of clones and then flowering them. only one out of three is doing it on mine. are you using the foliar spray they sell. im not and im thinking that may have something to do with it?

im using everything on the feed schedule except the foliar spray.

EDIT: I saw your thread and pics. it does look similar. i am seeing it on all plants now as they get to 2-3 weeks old in veg. my leaves, especially the older ones, have a very flat texture to them versus more waxy, shiny, or silky i have seen before.

i thought at first it was light intensity problem or nute mixing/ph problem. i let them go several more days and moved the light a bit higher to see if there was any change but the only change is that it is progressing to all the plants. i have two plants the same age about 2.5 weeks in veg i was thinking of trying 5ml/gal calmag on one and doing a side by side test to see if that helps. then i saw this post by snow crash in your thread:

"Not Mn. Your plant needs like 4ppm of Mn, to more like 40ppm of Mg, and 80ppm of Ca.

It is as likely it is Mn as it is as Zn problem.

It looks to me to be more along the lines of a Cal-Mag issue, perhaps related to a low pH feeding by mistake.

All in all they don't look bad. Stick with the program and don't "knee-jerk" react yet. You could be reacting to a problem that has already come and gone. By applying a solution to a problem that isn't a problem anymore you could just create issues for yourself down the road. Constantly trying to play catch up.

Ensure you are getting plenty of runoff.

H&G has a rediculous amount of Potassium in it. Potassium will compete for uptake with Calcium and Magnesium, so these elements being deficient (especially in the 3rd and 4th weeks of veg) in ratio with Potassium could most definitely be the issue here. I am not a fan of H&G for this reason, but I'm not here to tell you where to spend your own money.

I will say that some Cal-Mag will go a long way though"

did you ever try some calmag?

 

[budshoteyes]

I have the exact same symptoms in my veg plants...they colored first 3 days ago and this morning their leaves are limpy.....growth has stopped too!

Also this morning my ph pen is not reading low after many tries with ph-down and cleaning the probe.
I'm using sense grow and bloom ph perfect and cal/mag...going to switch to GH this evening along with the cal/mag.

 

[vorzh]

Towards the end of the light cycle plants will droop in anticipation of the night to come. It's normal, don't worry about it.

As far as PH, 5.8 seems low (i'd opt for 6.2 if you're in coco), but not likely the whole problem.

Do you know what the 100ppm consists of out of the tap? Could be a lot of Chlorine (not good) or other harmful chemicals. Have it analyzed, maybe.

It doesn't look at all like CalMag to me. CalMag deficiencies usually cause the leaves to taco up before any discoloration begins (if it begins at all). I wouldn't add Calmag just yet. My first step before changing anything would be to analyze the water you're starting with.

If you're too lazy, you can just R/O, and be sure that you've got a clean jump off point.

 

[michigan.mmma]

Towards the end of the light cycle plants will droop in anticipation of the night to come. It's normal, don't worry about it.

As far as PH, 5.8 seems low (i'd opt for 6.2 if you're in coco), but not likely the whole problem.

Do you know what the 100ppm consists of out of the tap? Could be a lot of Chlorine (not good) or other harmful chemicals. Have it analyzed, maybe.

It doesn't look at all like CalMag to me. CalMag deficiencies usually cause the leaves to taco up before any discoloration begins (if it begins at all). I wouldn't add Calmag just yet. My first step before changing anything would be to analyze the water you're starting with.

If you're too lazy, you can just R/O, and be sure that you've got a clean jump off point.

i have been using this same water source for several years and have had no problems in other mediums. even tried a pur filter for about 6months that brought the water to 000ppm but i saw no difference. i used botanicare, ionic, GH, and a few others in rockwool and DWC and never got this problem. i also let the water sit in a bucket with an airstone for 24hrs before using.

this is my first try in coco and first time using H&G. i thought 5.8 was where it should be for coco? maybe ill try adjusting to 6.2 from now on. i did measure the runoff last time and it was 6.3 so it looks like there is some drift going on.

 

[michigan.mmma]

so here is an update. i have been adding 5ml/gal CalMag the last couple days and there is an improvement on the plants in flowering but veg is still having some issues. the plants in flowering are getting watered once per day so that may be why they are quicker to respond than those in veg that are watered once every other day.

i have pics of veg and bloom but the pics while the HPS is on are not very good. i am not seeing the yellowing between veins on any new growth in flowering and most of the older yellowing has cleared up.

In the veg room, there are still some yellow spots and the plants are drooping a bit later in the day. (the plants in flowering are never drooping even at the end of the day they are pointing up and look happy) i think it may take a few days to see how the calmag will react with these. there is also some leaf damage on the tips i am not sure what it is. this is visible in the pics and the leaves are getting very thin on the edges and getting tears or holes in them. there are no critters in the rooms - at least none that i have seen. you can still see some of the yellow spots on the leaf in the pic also.

 

[michigan.mmma]

i talked to the guy that sold me on the H&G nutes. i showed him a pic and he does not think its a Mg deficiency but an iron deficiency. i am mixing as instructed on the bottle for normal veg growth - not the aggressive mixture. he thinks that is too high ppm and may be locking out some other elements. suggested not to add calmag yet and suggested some type of micronutrient with iron if things did not clear up by lowering the ppms. i already started with the calmag so i am going to continue and see what happens the next couple days. if things dont clear up i will start some side by side tests maybe with his idea and one plant GH 6/9.

if anyone has any ideas or advice please let me know. thanks!

 

[vorzh]

I don't get it, why would you ask a question, and then ignore all advice from reputable sources and instead continue with your whimsical solutions?

Classic.

 

[michigan.mmma]

I don't get it, why would you ask a question, and then ignore all advice from reputable sources and instead continue with your whimsical solutions?

Classic.

advice from what reputable sources? the only advice was yours and the guy at the grow store. i said i would try what he said if the calmag does not work. as i reported above, things are looking better.

a couple things here - i have been reading H3ads coco thread and im on page 65 of 100+ and no one i have seen is running coco at 6.2 ph. the bottle says it, guy at the store, everything i have read on here but 1 post. i commented on the issue of getting the water tested. i have grown several years with that water with no issues - thats why i dont think i need to get it tested. and like i said, plants in both rooms are looking better and 2 of 3 in veg are not drooping later in the day. i looked for a response to the comment i made about growing veg stage with light on 24 hrs with no plant droop - i have done this many times in the past. so when i heard the comment about plants anticipating the lights off time this makes absolutely no sense at all. how can you explain why plants in veg were drooping later in the day but now they look perky and happy all 18hrs? and you are now asking why i am ignoring advice from which reputable sources? you or the guys at the grow store where one swears mix at strength on the bottle and i say, "are you sure - i usually never go full strength what these bottles say." then i go back to the store and the other guy says, "dont use that stuff full strength"??

i have a small number of plants so i can only try a few different things at once. if i make a change, i have to see if it makes a difference before i try something else. no knee jerk reactions here - plus if things are looking better like i said, why would i change them already? this is why i dont like to ask questions on here and just read what works for others. i dont understand the demeaning attitude

 

[michigan.mmma]

light is off in veg room so no pic but they are looking better also. here is flowering room and still they look to be improving

 

[cyat]

MM my 2cents: lockout from salt buildup,get em out of the saucers and get true runoff. try feed at 600 ppm with good runoff, then bump it up a little and ditch the saucers.
you can do coco with no runoff but I think it takes a different strategy. get rid of the ra's yet?

 

[vorzh]

advice from what reputable sources? the only advice was yours and the guy at the grow store. i said i would try what he said if the calmag does not work. as i reported above, things are looking better.

a couple things here - i have been reading H3ads coco thread and im on page 65 of 100+ and no one i have seen is running coco at 6.2 ph. the bottle says it, guy at the store, everything i have read on here but 1 post. i commented on the issue of getting the water tested. i have grown several years with that water with no issues - thats why i dont think i need to get it tested. and like i said, plants in both rooms are looking better and 2 of 3 in veg are not drooping later in the day. i looked for a response to the comment i made about growing veg stage with light on 24 hrs with no plant droop - i have done this many times in the past. so when i heard the comment about plants anticipating the lights off time this makes absolutely no sense at all. how can you explain why plants in veg were drooping later in the day but now they look perky and happy all 18hrs? and you are now asking why i am ignoring advice from which reputable sources? you or the guys at the grow store where one swears mix at strength on the bottle and i say, "are you sure - i usually never go full strength what these bottles say." then i go back to the store and the other guy says, "dont use that stuff full strength"??

i have a small number of plants so i can only try a few different things at once. if i make a change, i have to see if it makes a difference before i try something else. no knee jerk reactions here - plus if things are looking better like i said, why would i change them already? this is why i dont like to ask questions on here and just read what works for others. i dont understand the demeaning attitude

Yerr right i'm the dick. Happy growing brotha

 

[michigan.mmma]

MM my 2cents: lockout from salt buildup,get em out of the saucers and get true runoff. try feed at 600 ppm with good runoff, then bump it up a little and ditch the saucers.
you can do coco with no runoff but I think it takes a different strategy. get rid of the ra's yet?

hey cyat! yes i think the ra's are gone......for now. all the dwc buckets i had going are done. i have 2 in rockwool that will finish in a few weeks and the rest in coco. i could not get rid of them in DWC but they were much easier to treat in the rw and coco. i have not seen one weeks and trust me i have been looking. ill post a pic here of two in flowering now - one a little over a week and the other about 5 days in. i know they probably would not start yellowing for another week if the ra were around but no signs yet!!

i have been hand watering until there is water coming out the bottom of the pots. i have them elevated in a small saucer on a piece of plastic then sitting in a larger saucer in case i put too much water and it runs out of the small saucer. i think that is what you mean right? so they are getting water run through them and also not have them sitting right in water.

its nice to see green for a change. i hope it lasts.... did you get rid of ra's for good?

 

[cyat]

Hey MM glad ur gettin em green and nice now! coco can be hard to dial in sometimes. the ra's shut down my hydro. doin dirt now. new weapon in ortho bug b gone at 6ml a gal, and sm90 for healing, works great and not as harsh as the bayer 2in 1. good luck