Smartpot Craze?

[DuskrayTroubador]

Please enlighten me as to how they work and what makes them more effective and grow bigger plants than just digging holes in the ground to put your soil mix and plant in. I've noticed that virtually every grower here uses them so I thought I'd see what they are about.

 

[guest8905]

a few benefits ive noticed

air pruning of roots
custom sized
portable
reusable
cuts down on erosion
keeps out gophers and such
root temps are lower than traditional container gardens in the summer, and they stay warmer in the winter.
plants seem to flourish

down sides ive found

they are made of oil
they can get salt buildup if your not organic (and sometimes even if you are)
they are pricey
transplanting can be tedious. I have peeled down and off up to 55 gallon size. But i know some growers who veg in the 65's then just take a razor and cut them open to transplant.

while smartpots work well, imo the custom home made versions have a smaller carbon footprint imo (just barely probably hah). Customs get a bit tedious though if you have 50+...i can only imagine...a few good workers could spit that out in less than a week i guess....but knowing how lazy OR big growers are doing things these days, the over the counter version is probably optimal for them both

Another key reason people like them is that they can grow large plants in places where the ground soil is not ideal for planting. I know some spots ive lived you couldnt dig anywhere in the ground, it was straight rock haha. And obviously this technology is not new and has been used for ages, heck even bales of hay in a square and tied up makes one huge badass container.

so imo they have their goods and bads, like most things

 

[slider420]

I use them mate..and they work quite well you can always do your own thing with the grow medium see my grow pixs....... Peace....

 

[Yes4Prop215]

they are only good for outdoors and for final containers...DONT USE TO TRANSPLANT!! such a pain in the ass, i had to cut open a bunch of 15 gals because its impossible to transplant normally....


also indoors they are a total headache come clean up time....i wont destroy my washing machine cleaning all these dirty ass smartpots....i just gave all my indoor smartpots (2 gals, 3 gals, 5 gals) to my friend...im done with smartpots moving onto grobags...much cheaper easier to transplant, etc...

 

[MummyCat]

I like to use geopots, local company making them way better than smartpot. They're made with the organic gardener in mind, more air to the soil = less chance of becoming anaerobic. I agree with the previous posters also, don't transplant from them, it sucks.

 

[DuskrayTroubador]

So if i understand correctly, they allow plants to grow bigger because more air gets to the roots?

Does the plant size/yield potential for smartpots outmatch the plant size/yield potential for plants planted in the ground? Assume soil mix is the same of course.

 

[nomaad]

I have not had to cut open a smartpot in a long time. They are durable. I still prefer them to all the new brands that have hit the streets over the last two years. I use har pots up to 2 gallons and then 5 and 10 gal smarties. I transplant out of those into final pots with ease... as long as the pot is properly filled out... which is the case when trasplanting with anything. if the rootball maintains integrity, the transplant is simple. YesProp... sometimes it helps to wet the smartie before transplant... not water the whole pot, just wet the surface of the smartie.

 

[nomaad]

The configuration of my garden changes from year to year. Its nice to be able to move the pots around, substitute a smaller pot, etc. They also dry out faster if you need to dry out fast. Such a situation has come up each of the years I have grown in smartpots. we were even able to move 200 gallon containers to make more space for some larger plants... the p;lants in them were 12x12' at the time.

Holes in the ground are what they are... many of the folks i know who once grew in big holes now have slightly smaller smartpots in those holes... Plenty of folks still use holes and trenches to grow their monsters in.

Personally, the idea of digging 20 or more 300 gallon holes has no allure. And if i want to move my graden to a different spot next year, i don;t have to think about digging them again.

Regardeless of whether u dig holes or use smartpots, the massive size of trees is directly related to a very large and hospitable quantity of soil and good growing skills. I know plenty of people with shitty little plants in 300 gallon holes. This year more than year's past.

 

[SicKSKills]

geopots are straight knock off garbage! like nomy said nothing beats the original smartpot. if you feel like digging large holes and trenches be my guest, been there done that see ya pimpin.... Although, I don't use them indoors either, too big of a pain to clean or reuse, i like to dump everything after each round and smarties aren't cost practical for that, i like standard plastic container inside, easy to clean reuse and cheap initial cost as well as they don't dry out as fast/use less water. I also have found that there is no real reason to go over 200 gallon size given the limited veg time of growing from clone outdoors, every plant Ive seen in the 400s this year was struggling while the 100s next to them are thriving and growing twice as fast.

 

[nomaad]

smartpots like to be pressure washed. smaller ones go right in the washing machine with a little bleach.

I disagree with you 100% on the assertion that there is no point in going bigger than 200 gals. My experience with 3 and 400's side by side with 200's totally contradicts your findings. I will concede that after 200's, the returns are somewhat diminished. but still worth it.

Depends on the cut and how tall it is when u transplants it, what you transplant it from, soil mix, how wide the pot is, fresh soil or reused soil, any veg/flower confusion, how expert a waterer you are, what u feed and when etc, etc etc etc etc (i really could go on for an hour) AND, most of all, the individual growers ability to do the dance of a master and effectively balance all these different factors in his or her process.

 

[0verkil13r]

Stickky & nomaad have made some excellent points.

I can only attest to outdoor growing with them as I only clone ID.

Mine are homemade with landscape fabric and have worked well so far. They have the added benefit of extra soil capacity because the roots can grow through the bottom into the ground. Also, if you make your own, they have all natural landscape fabric that is made from (I believe) corn. Just be sure that you use UV resistant thread to make them with.

I am also using laundry bags for my smaller plants.

 

[SicKSKills]

Well, milage may vary but like you said returns are diminished past the 200 and when you factor in the extra soil, water and ferts it just doesn't make sense to me personally, rather just add an extra plant in a 200. I find it extremely hard to believe you are getting as much out of 1 400 than 2 200s, or better yet 4 100s. I know I personally get 5lbs out of a 100 in full sun so let me know when you're getting 20lbs off 1x400 and if you're gonna cry plant counts and you're in norcal, you're barking up the wrong tree. And what qualifies someone as an expert/master grower, is it 2 and a half seasons outdoors?? how bout 10 years of living sleeping eating the world strictly as a gardener. Nomy you're cool and you do give people good advice most of the time but your word isn't the end all be all grower gospel, I could go on much longer than an hour....

 

[nomaad]

I find it extremely hard to believe you are getting as much out of 1 400 than 2 200s, or better yet 4 100s. I know I personally get 5lbs out of a 100 in full sun so let me know when you're getting 20lbs off 1x400 and if you're gonna cry plant counts and you're in norcal, you're barking up the wrong tree.

I am basing it 100% on keeping my plant count below 99. Dunno about your tree, but mine has kids in it. I have way less than that full season and 99 includes my black box and moms. When the boxes are down we pop in a round of headies and testers/experiments.

I would do lots more smaller plants if I were willing to take on the risk.

Sometime in the coming year, possibly in the next couple of months, the county will pass an ordinance (the breaking of which is a misdemeanor rather than a non criminal civil code violation) that will make it illegal to grow more than 6 mature outdoor plants (albeit without any kind of permit)...

I grow on a 1.5 acre rural parcel at the edge of a cluster of smaller parcels surrounded by huge ones. Neighbors have called code enforcement on me. The Sheriff knows I am here as they did a pre-Kellet compliance check based on another neighbor complaint. In '09 I took down 9 plants to be in compliance. So I am on the radar. I know what my ridge looks like from the air and there are not any gardens with more than 99 pots. Most of the serious gardens around here keep it around 50 full season if the plants are big. I keep it well below that.

On larger properties, the new ordinance (as it is written and as it seems it will pass) will limit collective grows to 36 plants. No legal 99's here and the Sheriff refuses to do take any kind of payment or sell zip ties because he wants to be able to enforce without a conflict of interest.

This is my last year doing outdoor in this spot... unless I rock a 6x6 OD/Black Box with monsters that get started in feb with with radiant heated pots, individual greenhouses and 800 gallon containers.

Cuz, if they do a post-ordinance compliance check, I am instantly liable. I am not willing to take on instant criminal (albeit misdemeanor) liability. Not even a little bit.

So the pursuit of growing the biggest six monsters possible remains a valid one... at least in my little slice of Norcal.

 

[nomaad]

And what qualifies someone as an expert/master grower, is it 2 and a half seasons outdoors?? how bout 10 years of living sleeping eating the world strictly as a gardener. Nomy you're cool and you do give people good advice most of the time but your word isn't the end all be all grower gospel, I could go on much longer than an hour....

Sorry if i gave the impression that I think I am a master. I certainly do not. I have met people with admirable qualities that make them great growers that would make them great at anything they do. Personally, I am having one hell of a time this season balancing half of what i need to to get what I want out of my limited number of plants. I could go on all day. I wasn't trying to condecend. just say that I have a completely diametrically opposed opinion to yours. And I think a lot of serious smaller scale growers share the perspective. Right here in norcal. My point is really that to reduce the diminishment of returns as you go up in pot size, you've got to master that dance that is the coefficient of a million different potentialities.

All I said was I disagree 100% that there is "no point" to growing in pots bigger than 200 gals. And I referred to mastery only as an aspiration to get the most out of my bigger pots for pretty straight-up reasons. I am having great results in bigger pots and i conceded that returns are diminishing... but I respectfully disagree 100% that there is no point.

While you may out-gardener me, it is possible that I have some other magical powers I have been developing over the last 10 years, that while having nothing to do with gardening, might make me a better gardener or more successful human being (quantify that however you want) than you. Its equally possible that this is not the case. You may be days away from solving the cold fusion riddle in addition to your sick gardening skills. How would I know?

Pulling rank based on your limited knowledge of my participation in these forums would be like... well... like me pulling rank on you based on my limited knowledge of your participation in these forums.

 

[0verkil13r]

Pulling rank based on your limited knowledge of me to my participation in these forums would be like... well... like me pulling rank on you based on my limited knowledge of your participation in these forums.

Well said. That would make someone a nice quote. Respect

 

[Yes4Prop215]

i agree with both nomad and SKS......i have seen some very healthy nice looking 100 gal pots that are even bigger than my 200s....if you were going strictly for yield and dont care about numbers a sea of 100s or 200s is the way to go....or shit even a sea of 45 gals sog style in rows...


if you gotta keep your numbers in check...might as well go with 800 gals, yea the returns diminish for each extra 200 gal of soil...but in the end if you can pull 8 lbs off one plant you are doing a good job.....yeah you could have pulled almost 20 off 4 200 gallons but then you got numbers to worry about and sheriff visits...


very sad to hear about the new ordinance...do you have any more information on it?

 

[talktosamson]

All this has been covered but, smart pots for outdoor growing has revolutionized how I can grow on my property. My best, most sunny spots are clay and rock substrate and.no holes could be dug. With the smart pots I just trace the path of the sun an d line them up. I agree that these are final resting place pots as well. I put them from a 5 gallon indoor to the 200s outdoor. I have averaged 3 lbs per plant in past years andmy biggest ever was 5. I have a Sage and an Agent Orange thatt could contend for the title this year. The only down side I see is that my watering has increased with smart pot use. Don't hold a lot of water and bleed out easy.

 

[CanniDo Cowboy]

Albeit an older thread, I'll throw some opinion/insight towards it, just in case some grow-greenhorns might still be pondering the use of the SmartPots:

Yea, theyre the real deal in that unlike a lot of "snakeoil" products and remedies coming out of the grow-mill almost everyday, the SmartPot theory does work. The root-tip pruning characteristics/tendencies of the S/P's isnt really a revolutionary idea per say but it has, to say the least, certainly given a new dimension to our industry.

Us grow-boys are a pretty smart bunch. If we're not busy creating our own tricks of the trade methods & applications, we have a knack for borrowing ideas and products from other industries, tweaking em to fit our needs and then putting them into service in ways only a mad scientist could imagine. If ya dont believe me, just look at the use amount and different applications we have found for the simple PVC pipe. As growers, we have found more uses for it than duct tape.

Personally, I like the Smarties because I happen to be one of those who have the misfortune to have, on my place, very rocky soil conditions. Very. Without the Smarties, this cowboy wouldnt be growing anything. The only real decisions to be made are whether you bury them or leave them above ground and how large do you need. Because S/P size can be an endless debate, I'll just say the theory that bigger is better does apply but success isnt proportionate with the size of the S/P. Ya still have to know what youre doing.

Going The Distance: IMO, burying the Smart Pot is to take full advantage of it's use. Sure, it took a full day to dig this 3ftx3ft hole but in the bigger scheme of things, you only have to dig it once and the S/P becomes sort of a cartridge. Just insert a new one every 3 years or so.

IMO, I think leaving the S/P's above ground and exposed is mostly a shortcut. A bit of laziness. I suppose there are a few instances where burying the S/P would be impossible but it would seldom if ever be due to logic regarding growing techniques. Simply stated, burying the S/P slows down the water evaporation process. The surrounding soil makes this possible not only with an insulation factor but also when the S/P is properly watered, the saturated, surrounding soil becomes somewhat of a reservoir and the S/P actually will act as a wick and draw the surrounding moisture back into the bag. If nothing else, the roots at the sides of the S/P experience much less "dry-out".

In the end, I prefer a natural look. IMO, above ground bags gives a commercial look and ultimately, yes you save your back by not having to dig holes, but IMO, you pay for it in the long run because having the bag exposed creates a more artificial setting at the outside edge of the bag material and it's quite possible, to a certain extent you are defeating the whole idea of the S/P's root tip pruning process simply because the exposed sides of the bag are being constantly heated by direct sunlite as apposed to the plant root tips being insulated/cooled in a more naturalistic process when below ground. It's hard to argue that one fellas.

Less watering which means not only maximum conservation but a more consistent heating/cooling & wet/drying out process.

I subscribe to the SmartPot theory whole-heartedly. I just think alot of folks stop short of it's capabilities by leaving it above ground. Presentation and functionality both...

I wouldnt use the S/Ps indoors either. The harvest turnover time is too quick to justify S/Ps. Indoors, on average, the plants are in the pots 8 to 12 weeks. Too short of time for the root-tip pruning characteristics of the bag to really do any good, IMO. The S/P fabric was designed for long term root/plant management. Indoor growing is all about accelerated turn-over. However, with the outdoor seasons being lengthy, S/Ps have a lot of uses due to their different sizes.

CC

 

[mad librettist]

CC if you mulched your dirt properly you wouldn't have to pull them out every 3 years.

I see lots and lots of bare dirt in your pics. If you wanted to you could even sow a living mulch that takes almost no work to maintain and fertilizes your soil for you.

 

[CanniDo Cowboy]

CC if you mulched your dirt properly you wouldn't have to pull them out every 3 years.

I see lots and lots of bare dirt in your pics. If you wanted to you could even sow a living mulch that takes almost no work to maintain and fertilizes your soil for you.

With all due respect friend: In regard to the every 3 years I also included "or so"...and you have no idea what is in my soil pard, living or dead. My post is strictly my opinion. Maybe it will help someone, maybe it wont. On the other hand, I find your post silly...or perhaps just stupid...BTW, this thread isnt about CC's soil management habits or abilities. It's about Smart POt usage. Stay focused little grow-buckaroo... CC