any one watch "sons of guns"???

[Capt.Ahab]

Buy an AR lower and a LPK (lower parts kit) and then go to youtube and find an assembly video.

 

[Capt.Ahab]

Then buy plenty of ammo . Stack it high and stack it deep. Stored properly, ammo almost never goes down in value.

 

[Sgt.Stedenko]

My apocalypse guns:

the AA12 -- the ak47 of shotguns

.22 rifle for hunting (ammo is light)

little .22 revolver for the ankle holster

a handgun probably 9mm glock

and i dunno a FUCKING SWORD.. it is the apocalypse might as well have style

I'd switch the AA-12 for a Saiga 12 gauge semi auto. The AK feed mechanism and reliability in 12 gauge fun.

 

[Zonker]

...while I don't pretend to know crap about guns I do know that silencers and suppressors are %100 illegal in the USA. Illegal to own, build, or even possess the plans to manufacture. As are fully automatic weapons and any weapon that can be switched, even the parts to convert one would cause arrests. ...

I guess you never heard of the Knob Creek gun range, they put on a nice show there every year. Amazing what some of those guys spend just to send lots of lead down range really fast. A Ruger 10/22 with a suppressed barrel is one of the best squirrel guns ever made.

 

[CascadeFarmer]

The 5.7's are sweeeet...a mini AR in your pocket and never hiccups

Red Jacket supplies some of the best AKs on the market.

If you don't mind waiting 6 months. A friend turned me onto this show a few weeks ago so checked out their offering...pretty inexpensive gear actually. Kreb's does great work also . The CZ 58 is a very nice option but not very popular. They stopped making magazines 20+ years ago.

 

[Sgt.Stedenko]

5.7's are a neat round, but pricey.
The P-90 was a dream gun of mine. I bought my son an airsoft P-90, just so I could play with it.

 

[Bobby Stainless]

To me a Five Seven is a waste of money.

1000 dollar handgun. I can build a AR15 pistol for 800-900 bucks...

Cheaper and stronger ammo. Bigger mags... Don't understand them.

 

[CascadeFarmer]

To me a Five Seven is a waste of money.

1000 dollar handgun. I can build a AR15 pistol for 800-900 bucks...

Cheaper and stronger ammo. Bigger mags... Don't understand them.

An FN 5.7 vs AR15 'pistol' is really not a rational comparo in some ways. Yeah I said like a mini M16 and that's basically the round only...shortened version. Actually 5.7 x 28 mm vs 5.56 x 57 mm.

1. The 5.7 magazine is basically the grip like all true handguns...with the AR15 based model it's a separate unit. One is a true handgun and the other is not.
2. The weight difference between the 2 is significant. A fully loaded 5.7 weighs about 20% less than than a fully loaded 9 mm. It also perfectly balances on your index finger . Factory mags hold 20 rounds and the extended version 30. Not enough?
3. The size difference between the 2 is significant.
4. Easy to conceal/carry a 5.7 and what about the .223?
5. FN created the 5.7 from the ground up and pretty much nailed it...except for the adjustable sights...the AR15 platform is inherently flawed.
6. My $900 was well spent IMO. Good enough for the Secret Service...good enough for me.
7. I don't own guns to shoot a bunch of ammo so don't notice much impact on my wallet.
8. The .223/5.56 is a weak round as a rifle cartridge. Better to build something off of the AK74 platform...even if the receiver is stamped. Ammo availability is the problem with that one though.

Apples and oranges really.

Oh yeah...available SS197SR blue tip 5.7 rounds will go through level 2 body armor. What about the .223/5.56 stuff?

I wouldn't think about spending 1 penny on anything based on the .223/5.56...and still give my friend shit for the SCAR 16 he bought.

 

[Stoner4Life]

here's something you can hack together in your garage, a perfectly legal gatling gun made up of two (2) Ruger 10/22 guns and a Tactical Innovations kit.......

 

[NOKUY]

here's something you can hack together in your garage, a perfectly legal gatling gun made up of two (2) Ruger 10/22 guns and a Tactical Innovations kit.......

i remember looking into that a while back....pretty sweet no doubt

...also been havin' my eyes on a taurus judge ... revolver that blast 410 shotgun rounds and .45 cal.

 

[Stoner4Life]

i remember looking into that a while back....pretty sweet no doubt

...also been havin' my eyes on a taurus judge ... revolver that blast 410 shotgun rounds and .45 cal.

the .45 is easy to manage, very easy. the .410 bore is a killer to shoot, every shot will feel like a bad connect w/a baseball & bat when the bat just rings in your hands numbing them.

I used to own a Thompson Contender and one of my barrel configurations was a .45/.410 and that 410 was a killer even though the barrel was 12" long which absorbs recoil.

but of course it's not like you'll need any practice w/the 410, point n' shoot in the general direction will take down any close targets.

will you need to remove a barrel choke when shooting the .45?




EDIT:
Here's some fun for shooting.......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CTizq4NCto

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6GxFws8B7k

 

[Bobby Stainless]

An FN 5.7 vs AR15 'pistol' is really not a rational comparo in some ways. Yeah I said like a mini M16 and that's basically the round only...shortened version. Actually 5.7 x 28 mm vs 5.56 x 57 mm.

1. The 5.7 magazine is basically the grip like all true handguns...with the AR15 based model it's a separate unit. One is a true handgun and the other is not.

The AR15 pistol, is considered a handgun by the BATF. Doesn't matter what you think is a "true" handgun.

2. The weight difference between the 2 is significant. A fully loaded 5.7 weighs about 20% less than than a fully loaded 9 mm. It also perfectly balances on your index finger . Factory mags hold 20 rounds and the extended version 30. Not enough?

The Five Seven has horrible ergonomics, due to the fact it has to house ammo in the grip.

How is it 20% lighter than a 9mm? Which 9mm? There are many different variations of 9mm pistols.

As far as round count. The AR15 standard mag holds 30, but can hold a 100 round mag. Way more firepower, a lot less reloading.

3. The size difference between the 2 is significant.

Yes, and I would much rather have a weapon that can be shouldered to a certain extent. If I wanted a defense handgun, it would be a Glock with a happy stick, not a Five Seven.

4. Easy to conceal/carry a 5.7 and what about the .223?

Fits in a small gym bag just fine. Once again, I am talking about a SHTF weapon, not a daily carry gun.

5. FN created the 5.7 from the ground up and pretty much nailed it...except for the adjustable sights...the AR15 platform is inherently flawed.

The DI system is dirty and hot, which can cause problems if not cleaned regularly. However, that has all been taken care of with the piston operation systems.

6. My $900 was well spent IMO. Good enough for the Secret Service...good enough for me.

Don't forget the bullets that are about $2.25 per shot... How you can afford to train on a round like that is beyond me... 5.56 are about 25 cents a shot.

While some Secret Service agents are issued the P90. The standard carry weapon for the Secret Service is the Sig P-229 in .357sig



7. I don't own guns to shoot a bunch of ammo so don't notice much impact on my wallet.

Then how do you practice? What is the point of owning a gun you don't know how to shoot? The only way you get to be a better shot is through practice.

It would cost you over 240 bucks just to get a decent range day in...

8. The .223/5.56 is a weak round as a rifle cartridge. Better to build something off of the AK74 platform...even if the receiver is stamped. Ammo availability is the problem with that one though.

Well we are talking about pistols here, not rifles. The AK47 is a much better assault rifle than the AR, but the Draco Ak47 pistol is far more unwieldy. There is no buffer tube to hug into your shoulder.

Stamped AK receivers are actually easier to work on than milled ones.

It would be a whole hell of a lot easier and cheaper to source ammo for a AK/AR than a Five Seven.

Apples and oranges really.

Not really. You are talking about a hi capacity pistol that shoots a rifle round. I am talking about a hi capacity pistol that shoots a rifle round. However, mine is just much cheaper to own and shoot.

Oh yeah...available SS197SR blue tip 5.7 rounds will go through level 2 body armor. What about the .223/5.56 stuff?

The point of the 5.7 round is hi capacity with low penetration. That is why the Secret Service has started to carry the P90. The 5.7 basically is a hopped up .22.

I wouldn't think about spending 1 penny on anything based on the .223/5.56...and still give my friend shit for the SCAR 16 he bought.

If the 5.7 is such a great round, then why don't more Military use it???? Maybe because it is a niche weapon, with not much versatility.

Review.

For some gun gurus, the Five-SeveN is the handgun equivalent of the world’s most fire-proof paper hat. It’s a brilliant technical achievement but who cares? For one thing, you’re more likely to find Keira Knightley at Country Buffet than a box of 5.7×28mm ammo at K-Mart. For another, firing-off a hundred rounds of Five-SeveN ammo costs more than draining a particularly good bottle of Scotch. As for the weapon itself, you can buy two Springfield XD’s for the price of one of FN’s strangely-chambered pistols. Did I mention that the Five-SeveN’s safety sits on the side of the gun’s barrel? Or that the grip is longer (end-to-end) than War and Peace? All of which makes the Five-SeveN a novelty gun for impressing range rovers who Glock around the clock.

Stainless

 

[gilgahash]

I saw one of these at my local gunshop the other day

probably make a pretty good bush survival gun considering it weighs just over a pound loaded with 30 rounds, nevermind the fact that .22mag is purtty cheap and can be found anywhere...

 

[Sgt.Stedenko]

Once you shoulder a P-90, you'll understand.
If you can afford dropping $1600 on a PS-90 or 1k on a five-seven, you can afford the ammo.
$2.25 a round is bullshit, Bobby. Try $0.38 per round.
http://www.bing.com/shopping/250-rd...f=0&lpq=5.7x28 ammo&FORM=EGCA0&lppc=undefined
40 S&W and .45 ammo isn't cheap, either.

 

[Bobby Stainless]

P90s are not that nice either.

I am not a fan of big chunky triggers. Don't like Bullpups. Expensive mags, that are hard to find. etc, etc.

1600 is pretty cheap as far as quality rifles are concerned. Piston driven ARs barely even start at 1600.

1k for a handgun is relatively low as well. It has nothing to do with affording a certain gun, and everything to do with sourcing ammo.

My point is that a Five Seven is a safe queen. A cool toy, but that is about it. Reloading is cheap, and that is how a lot of people keep ammo costs low on .45s and .40s. Who is actually reloading 5.7?

If it were more than what it is, you would see it utilized more by Military and LEOs.

 

[CascadeFarmer]

Review.
Stainless

Stick with cars.

For some gun gurus, the Five-SeveN is the handgun equivalent of the world’s most fire-proof paper hat. It’s a brilliant technical achievement but who cares? For one thing, you’re more likely to find Keira Knightley at Country Buffet than a box of 5.7×28mm ammo at K-Mart. For another, firing-off a hundred rounds of Five-SeveN ammo costs more than draining a particularly good bottle of Scotch. As for the weapon itself, you can buy two Springfield XD’s for the price of one of FN’s strangely-chambered pistols. Did I mention that the Five-SeveN’s safety sits on the side of the gun’s barrel? Or that the grip is longer (end-to-end) than War and Peace? All of which makes the Five-SeveN a novelty gun for impressing range rovers who Glock around the clock.

So that's someone else's opinion and not yours. Cool you've had so much experience with this piece. The safety location rocks IMO. The grip length is perfect for me and that analogy is simply stupid. Yeah I got a .40 Glock also and like the 5.7 better. How many rounds do you need to fire before you learn how to shoot?

Don't forget the bullets that are about $2.25 per shot... How you can afford to train on a round like that is beyond me

LMFAO! I know you're not stupid but starting to question that.

Still apples and oranges stuff. When I read that Red Jacket was building a 1,000 yard AK I was like...WTF? Guess it's like Monster Garage stuff. My Sako .338 Lapua will run circles around it.

 

[Sgt.Stedenko]

If I had the money to waste on one, I'd pay the tax for the sbr. The long barrel on the PS-90 negates the whole design philosophy, imo.

I agree I wouldn't want to rely on a P-90 or 5.7 ammo when armegeddon or zombies come. I'll stand by the Saiga 12 gauge for that.

 

[CascadeFarmer]

I agree I wouldn't want to rely on a P-90 or 5.7 ammo when armegeddon or zombies come.

If that happens, and you're good enough, you're picking up arms and ammo along the way. You don't need a military arsenal...just pick up what others have been stocking...lol.

As for Red Jacket...reminds me of Monster Garage...somewhat useless pieces of creation. Good for entertainment though.

 

[Bobby Stainless]

The $2.25 was a joke.

I have not had much time on a Five Seven, because the ergonomics are shit IMO. No one I shoot with owns one, and I don't ever plan on buying one.

You have to shoot 1000s of rounds before your muscles start to learn the movement, and it becomes a reaction. I guess if you are just plinking with it then it doesn't matter. Which was my whole point. It seems to be more of a toy, than anything.

Saiga 12 is about the baddest shotgun you can buy.

It's all a matter of opinion. I prefer a 1911 based platform.

 

[VonBudí]

read about the show a while ago, seems a real love it or hate it deal

funny vid about it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4YSortfOK0