I posted a couple of weeks ago in the forum about some unhappy females. Since than i designed a new system similar to an ebb and grow with smart pot inserts with coco and hydroton. I was advised by my local shop to run aqua and vega with cal mag for the recirculating system. It is more ebb and flow than no recirculation or ebb and grow bucket system. Here is the link from the hydro forum. https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=218067 Any help would be much appreciated. I need to figure this out before disaster occurs.
Asked to move from hydro forum.
- Thread starter szachtb2
- Start date
beejium
Member
Coco seems to work best in drain to waste. Simple and easy works. You probably should have stopped in to IC and done some reading before venturing to the hydro store. Are you going to believe the fish store or talk to people who raise the fish?
What is so hard about a standard hempy or coco pot with coco compatible nutes?
If you want to play in water, build a DWC system and stick to the proven rigs.
people here must feel like they are
Ive spent plenty of time on IC before going to the store. everything ive read from canna says that if your using 50% or more coco to use coco a/b but anything less than 50% you should go aqua? Appreciate the kind words of wisdom?!?! 
As stated before im using less than 50 percent coco so i figured it was the proper was to go. Do you think i am the only person who desires to grow with coco in an ebb and flow setup, or the only one who has tried it?? Would it be more properly suited to run a dead res with the coco or what? the only problem I see is the ph buffer in aqua is not suited for an active organic medium like coco. So If i run A dead res will i avoid this problem?
As stated before im using less than 50 percent coco so i figured it was the proper was to go. Do you think i am the only person who desires to grow with coco in an ebb and flow setup, or the only one who has tried it?? Would it be more properly suited to run a dead res with the coco or what? the only problem I see is the ph buffer in aqua is not suited for an active organic medium like coco. So If i run A dead res will i avoid this problem?
no you wont. its got nothing to do with a running it sterile. your closer to the mark with your buffer comment. Ca/Mg. but theres a bit more to consider from the little i know about it. esp the relationship between Ca/Mg & K, cations & Coco.
You should get more indepth advice now youve posted in here. dripper Rig & run-off trays you want imo! if you wanna run with coco & dont want to hand feed. suit the system to the media & nutes & you should be rocking.
http://www.canna-uk.com/aqua
http://www.canna-uk.com/coco
http://www.canna-uk.com/coco_50l_bags_directions (see irrigation/feed direction)
G'luck mate!
You should get more indepth advice now youve posted in here. dripper Rig & run-off trays you want imo! if you wanna run with coco & dont want to hand feed. suit the system to the media & nutes & you should be rocking.
http://www.canna-uk.com/aqua
http://www.canna-uk.com/coco
http://www.canna-uk.com/coco_50l_bags_directions (see irrigation/feed direction)
G'luck mate!
Last edited:
dgr
Member
szachtb2,
I was following a bit on your other thread. I also remember reading that Canna recommends aqua for recirculating even in coco. Damn if I recall where and I'm not going to register on their site to access what should be free.
I applaud you for trying something. I have a hard time believing that the issue is a label on a bottle. Maybe there is a deficiency in the basic formulation that needs to be adjusted for the media but that doesn't make the nutrient unsuitable for a media. MOST nutrients need some addition. Someone should tell all the 6/9 users, eh?
Sorry to say but plants need a specific range of each element during particular times of their life cycle. Anything beyond that is voodoo. All the nutrients are formulated with the same base salts. The only difference between coco and other absorbent hydro mediums is the CEC, NaCl and high K+. All are dealt with by users of a number of different nutrients. And it's usually "Flush if you like, pre-charge with cal-mag and away you go."
I've used PBP, GH liquid, GH dry, KISS, not so KISS and have experienced similar successes and failures with all of them.
Nutrient deficiencies manifest in particular ways. Your plants just plain look like hell. A couple of ways that multiple deficiencies can manifest themselves all at once is overwatering, ph imbalance or a toxic issue. Can we assume that ph is accurate? What type of hose is that you are running? Shot in the dark but is it N-G-W?
Is it possible for you to eliminate variables? Like the CO2? It isn't doing you anything, anyway at the moment.
best of luck
I was following a bit on your other thread. I also remember reading that Canna recommends aqua for recirculating even in coco. Damn if I recall where and I'm not going to register on their site to access what should be free.
I applaud you for trying something. I have a hard time believing that the issue is a label on a bottle. Maybe there is a deficiency in the basic formulation that needs to be adjusted for the media but that doesn't make the nutrient unsuitable for a media. MOST nutrients need some addition. Someone should tell all the 6/9 users, eh?
Sorry to say but plants need a specific range of each element during particular times of their life cycle. Anything beyond that is voodoo. All the nutrients are formulated with the same base salts. The only difference between coco and other absorbent hydro mediums is the CEC, NaCl and high K+. All are dealt with by users of a number of different nutrients. And it's usually "Flush if you like, pre-charge with cal-mag and away you go."
I've used PBP, GH liquid, GH dry, KISS, not so KISS and have experienced similar successes and failures with all of them.
Nutrient deficiencies manifest in particular ways. Your plants just plain look like hell. A couple of ways that multiple deficiencies can manifest themselves all at once is overwatering, ph imbalance or a toxic issue. Can we assume that ph is accurate? What type of hose is that you are running? Shot in the dark but is it N-G-W?
Is it possible for you to eliminate variables? Like the CO2? It isn't doing you anything, anyway at the moment.
best of luck
about to read the old thread, will get back to you if i get any ideas.
Hello, Ive started 24 pineapple express and 8 grape god buds under 4k super hps with temps between 80-85 with co2 at 1000ppm. I was initially hand feeding canna coco line with rhizo. plants are over 3 weeks now I i just cant figure out whats wrong. they have grown and had plenty of root development, but my leaf color has never been lush green and are always drooped down, never perky regardless of how much i do, or dont let them dry out. I just switched over to a custom flood and drain bucket system and am feeding with aqua vega a/b, rhizo, to canna chart and cal maged water to 160, based at 110. I have the buckets setup with smart pots lined in clay pebbles with the 1 gallon well rooted plants in 100% canna coco with the clay pebbles surrounding the coco root ball. ive been flooding every day or so as they have not been dryin out too quickly yet. my nute ppms at 850 as of last feed yesterday at a ph of 6.0 What am I doing wrong? Im also wondering if im using the cal mag correctly or if i even need it. Here are some pictures. Please let me know what you think??
after reading your first thread i have a few thoughts to share. it seems to me you are going over board with the cal mag. personally i get away without even using it. but if you use it, i wouldn't be adding to every feed. maybe once a week max.
but the first thing that springs to mind is the hydroton, how well did you wash that stuff before use? have seen coco and badly washed hydroton to react bad together before. if it was me i'd stick with pure coco coir with canna coco a+b or with pure hydroton.
when ever things go funky it's best to go back to basics, for me that would mean just a and b with zym product at ph 5.9. and maybe 1ml per lt rhizotonic.
when the plants were looking healthy it looks like they were in pure coco, or is that wrong?
even though canna recommends that one does drain to waste with canna coco a+b in coco, this is not essential. i run recirculating for years as it saves on nutes and water. the only time i switch to drain to waste is when i'm flushing.
i agree with Scroggerman that coco works really well with automated drip irrigation, so you could run your buckets that way. just keep it simple, pure coco in the buckets and your plants will love it.
if planning long veg phase you could use the canna aqua veg during veg, but the coco a+b works near perfect too without anything else added. as i said i don't even own cal mag, never have. but if your plants need it, they will not need it every time for sure.
good growings
I turned the co2 off at this point. Im really worried im gonna lose everything??? I dont know what to do? Ive grown for a couple years now with none of this problems on a smaller scale, when i finally invest and fell comfortable with the system i go big and it seems to be smacking me in the face hard. the only reason i have cal mag is cause i was told it was needed to fill the cec when using coco with the aqua. I ran it with my tank last nigh with coco a/b rhizo, zym, added drip clean and ran like 1.5 ml/ gal cal mag???? I really dont know what to do besides start over, but i really dont want to. I ran the bag of hydroton under shower for 10 min than put in gallon container and rinsed like 3 times till no color came off. I have no residue in system like its a salt issue. here are pics from this am. DGR- im not sure of hose brand. one is a hard plastic 1/2" and other is soft rubber 1" none are marked!!! when i first got them they were in coco and after the transplant they have gone downhill progressively with no upgrade? is it the room? if it was offgassing would my co2 meter show it? I also have new wood in room for the tables? I just dont know what to do. Also never mentioned that my power expansion module has given me issues and tripped breaker for a/c and room has gone to 115 on 3 occasions now for an unknown amount of time. No more than a couple hours as i constantly check on room.
Man I do not do coco so???? Followed you from the hydro.. To me those look to Dam WET.
If you were just in hydroTon I would know it was the case. Have U tried lettin them dry? srry if I missed it.. Good luck
If you were just in hydroTon I would know it was the case. Have U tried lettin them dry? srry if I missed it.. Good luck
Just got off the phone with a store in long beach and told them issues and system, was told that the aqua with cal mag was good to go but my issue was the heat stress and the plants are dead on a cellular level and just need to be chopped and started over? Called another local hydro shop was told to bring pics and show him and he confirmed what i was told by the folks in long beach? they were sayin maybe 20 percent of plant was alive but was a waist of time to try to reveg it to keep it going.. can i reclone those? what are the thoughts?
tried we and dry nutting seems to make them happy. they seem to dry out pretty well in less than a day even now that they are half dead! Im very upset at my local hydro shop as man claimed he was all mighty seemed to know his product and told me to run a pxm-1 with a 18k ac. it trips randomly and left me in very warm situations on room. asked him at store if issues with product and sayed i was okay, needless to say i need a high powered relay.
the extreme heat can't have been good for them, but a few hours of high temps will not kill them. they don't actually look dead to me either. unless you can easy start new with just coco or just hydroton then it's worth trying to get these plants to the point of happiness again. i would personally remove all the hydroton on top and the bottom and replace all with coo as much as possible without damaging the roots. also plants have stages where they hang the leaves a bit, but with yours it's rather extreme. after replacing all the hydroton with coco i'd give them a nice heavy watering with a medium strength a +b solution ideally each one till some 20% of the solution comes back out. then just leave them till the next day when you give each plant a similar strength solution of just a and b, after 2 or 3 days your plants should clearly show you they are back on track.
if you had off gassing your plants would never have looked good in the pure coco.
i'm assuming you don't have a crazy high ec run off do you? cause at a certain point that will screw with your plants too.
edited to add: if you are giving more then 18 hours of light per 24 i'd reduce to 18/6 your plants will appreciate the rest. also moving the lamps up more for a few days till they look happier is also a good idea.
if you had off gassing your plants would never have looked good in the pure coco.
i'm assuming you don't have a crazy high ec run off do you? cause at a certain point that will screw with your plants too.
edited to add: if you are giving more then 18 hours of light per 24 i'd reduce to 18/6 your plants will appreciate the rest. also moving the lamps up more for a few days till they look happier is also a good idea.
Dude your hydroton will not dry out in a day.
Ok?? I hav plants right now in 2 gal of hydroton. It's easily been 24 hours, still wet. Just sayin they look waterlogged. you would be a better judge on site.. goodluck
Yeah where I am at the shit might make water. I've had totes full of cleaned set months inside still be wet 3-4 inches down.
With both mediums it is very hard to say for sure what the Fk is goin on. I would pick 1 way and stick with that. I see people just Kill in coco. I love my hydroton....
18 hours is a very good call
looks like you are having root problems... which manifests in ph and nutrient issues...
your plant is being robbed of nutrients for some reason. i see your stems are turning purple and woody (not a good sign).
pull out a plant from its base and smell/look at roots... pull some bottom roots out... do they break off easy? do you have winged root aphids? gnats? both?
one way to correct such a problem is repotting into a bigger pot with fresh coco/soil. do not use the ebb & flo/grow system and put them in to a larger pot which you can hand water and check run-in and run-off.
try to avoid treating the plants with more and more nutrients or flushing. simple NPK and a foliar of micro should bounce them back until the root system can sustain such a large plant.
your plant is being robbed of nutrients for some reason. i see your stems are turning purple and woody (not a good sign).
pull out a plant from its base and smell/look at roots... pull some bottom roots out... do they break off easy? do you have winged root aphids? gnats? both?
one way to correct such a problem is repotting into a bigger pot with fresh coco/soil. do not use the ebb & flo/grow system and put them in to a larger pot which you can hand water and check run-in and run-off.
try to avoid treating the plants with more and more nutrients or flushing. simple NPK and a foliar of micro should bounce them back until the root system can sustain such a large plant.
Those look like much happier gurls from here.. Kool
