What's wrong?

[Phychotron]

I left my vegging plants vegging for 10 days while a friend fed them regular water. When i got back my super lemon haze had a bunch of curled leaves--which is just starting to go away after 2 weeks. My supernova had a bunch of leaves start to change color and die off. I ripped about 5-6 off that were looking real bad. I was wondering what exactly caused these plants to react as they did. all are in soil, which i thought would have bought me a little bit of time before they started to show any signs of deficiency.

the plants streched out much more than I expected and are now on day 15 of flowering. Just have the one LED, another one in the mail. This is my second grow

 

[RubeGoldberg]

what do you ph to and what is the ph of your runoff usually?

did your friend feed them often? what guidelines did you give them for feeding?

also imo your plants are a bit tall for LEDs considering their light penetration, in the future shorter plants might make you happier, however I'm not in any way saying they're the problem in this case

 

[Phychotron]

i hoisted the light up to show the guy but forgot to put it back down before I left.

I soaked the pots and left 2L of nutrients with an airstone for the first waterring, but figured they'd be good on just water. at that point I was watering with 2L every 3 days. the second watering he used tap water, but told me that it was coming out brown for the first minute--it comes out @150ppm normally. So i told him to switch to the RO water and it got maybe 1-2 more waterings before I got home. They were needing water when i got home and fed them.

i'm using the advanced grow/micro/bloom as directed. I'll check my pph and all that tomorrow.

 

[Phychotron]

ph going in roughly at 5.5, coming out the same. The plant has more decay on that one leaf, and a few others are suffering. One of the uppermost shade leaves has some deformed leaves, where it grow mostly on one side of the center vein.

 

[RubeGoldberg]

Bump your PH up to 6.3-6.5 going in if you're in soil/soilless 5.8-6.0 in coco.

Whats happening is your PH being at 5.5 is too acidic and certain nutrients are getting locked out. Correcting the PH should cause them to bounce back.



the chart below is kinda shitty, but in this case it'll let you visualize whats going on.
On the right hand side is how your plant uptakes in SOIL, so at 5.5 you can see your plants were missing out on a few things.

 

[Phychotron]

That makes sense. I had actually suspected that the ph was too low, but didn't realize that their was that much of a difference between the two mediums. Luckily i just got the ph adjust for a dwc experiment. I'll report back what I find.

another question, is that I've seen people using cal/mag with RO water, should I work that into the mix?(particularly with the dwc) I have tap water @ 150 ppm and was wondering if that would be better for the soil plants?

 

[RubeGoldberg]

in DWC yes its more important.

The reason they run cal-mg in RO water is because RO water is susceptible to PH swings without a bit of a mineral buffer. What often will happen is the PH of the nutrient solution will swing up/down unpredictably even after the nutrients are added and PH adjusted.

100ppm of cal-mg will prevent this. Or even 50/50 mix with your tapwater if you have reasonable water coming from the tap

 

[Phychotron]

My tap water leaves mineral deposits on everything it touches.

found my local water analysis

[Contaminant 1] [Date Sampled] [Range of Detections] [Unit] [MCL] [MCLG] [Major Source in Drinking Water] [Violation]
Arsenic 8/29/2007 0.0021 mg/l 0.05 By-product of some No
agricultural and
industrial activities
Barium 10/24/2007 0.072 - 0.075 mg/l 2 Discharge of drilling wastes; No
discharge from metal refineries;
erosion of natural deposits
Calcium 8/8/2003 20.9 mg/l Leaching of rocks and soil No
Chloride 10/24/2007 2.45 - 4.08 mg/l 250 Erosion of natural deposits No
Chromium (Total) 10/24/2007 0.0014 - 0.0022 mg/l 0.1 Discharge from steel and pulp No
mills; erosion of natural deposits
Color 4/12/2007 5 - 10 color unit 15 Erosion of natural deposits No
Conductivity 10/24/2007 249 - 319 umhos/cm 700 Erosion of natural deposits No
Fluoride 10/24/2007 0.512 - 1.21 ppm 4 4 No
Hardness (CaCO3) 10/24/2007 100 - 155 mg/l CaCo3 Erosion of natural deposits No
Iron 10/24/2007 0.292 - 0.94 mg/l 0.3 Erosion of natural deposits Yes 5
Magnesium 8/8/2003 14.1 mg/l No
Manganese 10/24/2007 0.0225 - 0.0464 mg/l 0.05 0.05 Erosion of natural deposits No 5
Silica 8/8/2003 34 mg/l No
Sodium 4 10/24/2007 18.3 - 24.2 mg/l Erosion of natural deposits No
Sulfate 10/24/2007 4.7 - 5.07 mg/l 250 Erosion of natural deposits No
Total Dissolved Solids 10/24/2007 183 - 234 mg/l 500 No
Turbidity 10/24/2007 0.38 - 9.24 NTU 1 Soil runoff Yes 7
Zinc 10/24/2007 0.0014 - 0.0016 mg/l 5 Erosion of natural deposits No
Gross Alpha Radiation 5/29/2007 0.11 - 1.83 pCi/l 15 Erosion of natural deposits No
of certain mineral that are
radioactive and may emit a form
of radiation known as “alpha
radiation”
Gross Beta Radiation 5/29/2007 3.58 - 4.7 pCi/l No
Radium 226 5/29/2007 0.01 - 0.02 pCi/L 0 Erosion of natural deposits No
Radium 228 12/14/2007 0.05 - 2 pCi/L 0 Erosion of natural deposits No
Dibromoacetic Acid 8/30/2006 1 ug/l 0 By-product of drinking water No
disinfection
Haloacetic Acids 8/30/2006 1 mg/l 0 By-product of drinking water No
disinfection
Volatile Organic Contaminants
Bromodichloromethane 11/16/2007 0.5 - 2.1 ug/l By-product of drinking water No
disinfection
Bromoform 11/16/2007 0.5 - 2.2 ug/l By-product of drinking water No
disinfection
Chlorodibromomethane 11/16/2007 0.5 - 2.6 ug/l By-product of drinking water No
disinfection
Chloroform 11/16/2007 0.5 - 2.4 ug/l By-product of drinking water No
disinfection
Dibromochloromethane 1/2/2007 1 - 2.8 ug/l By-product of drinking water No
disinfection
Trihalomethane Potential 11/16/2007 4.84 ug/l 100 By-product of drinking water No
chlorination.
Footnotes:
1 Only regulated contaminants that were found in the drinking water are listed.
2 Some contaminates are not required to be sampled annually. Only the most recent sample date is listed.
3 The highest detection is reported as the 90th percentile sample. A total of 30 samples were analyzed, with three above the MCL.
4 Sodium is not regulated and there is no MCL established, however, the EPA has established a recommended level of 20 ppm for dietary purposes.
5 Iron and manganese are not regulated by the EPA, however, the Washington State Department of Health has established a Secondary MCL for iron and manganese.
Secondary MCLs are based on factors other than health effects. For these contaminants, aesthetic quality is the basis for the Secondary MCL. There are no requirements
to treat or remove these contaminants from the drinking water.
6 The lowest to highest detected contaminant levels for any contaminant for samples taken between 1/1/2003 and 12/31/2007. ND means None Detected.
7 The violation for turbidity occurred from a sample drawn from Well 6 on April 12, 2007. While technically a violation, none of the water that exceeded the MCL of 1 NTU
was introduced into the water distribution system. This well has been out of service since January 2007 due to mechanical failure.
Key:
AL = Action Level, the concentration of a contaminant which, if exceeded, triggers treatment or other requirements that a water system must follow.
MCL = Maximum Contaminant Level
MCLG = Maximum Contaminant Level Goal
ppb = parts per billion, or micrograms per liter (ug/L)
ppm = parts per million, or milligrams per liter (mg/L)
umhos/cm = micromhos per centimeter

 

[Phychotron]

ph Low

ph Low

checked the pH of the SuperNova runoff and it looks very low. But at the same time, the test strip does not agree. The strips are a bit old, but they always agree with the liquid above 5.

I ran about a gallon of pH adjusted to 7 tapwater.


Also, on these super lemon haze's, should i trim them more at the bottom?

 

[RubeGoldberg]

litmus test strips arent agreeing with your ph meter?

 

[Phychotron]

i don't have a meter yet--figured i'd get by with the litmus and the liquid test that came with the ph-adjust kit. the paper disagrees with the liquid tester. an actual meter is the next thing i'm going to get--currently flat flat broke.

I saw a Soil Ph meter at the hardware store for like $8. i was wondering if that would be worth it?

 

[softyellowlight]

How old are your pH test drops? If anything, I would spend the $8 on replacing those unless they are from this year.

 

[RubeGoldberg]

I saw a Soil Ph meter at the hardware store for like $8. i was wondering if that would be worth it?

negative. the soil probes are inaccurate as hell.

your best bet if you're trying to save money is a cheaper hanna meter along with updated PH trips so you can second guess your meter occasionally

 

[Phychotron]

I got the drops with a general hydroponics ph adjust kit. i'm sure they are relatively fresh, but like i said the paper is a bit old (however they agree on ph 6+) roughly 10yrs old by now. geeze how time flies.

how about one of those cheap meter's on ebay for like $12? looks like a million people have em

 

[RubeGoldberg]

Yeah, no idea on those cheap yellow meters on Ebay seem pretty enticing.

but honestly, going with a brand name you can trust is a better bet. It will honestly pay itself off in yield right away.

not just on avoiding ph related lockouts that you notice, but just over-all more efficient uptake and all the good things that come with that.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

5.5 runoff? Did you lime your potting mix? Peat-based mixes often list lime on the ingredient label but it's often not enough. I usually use a tablespoon of lime per gallon of peat-based, unferted potting mix.

That said, your necrotic spots don't look pH related. I venture a guess it's water related, maybe before you started using RO.

Might not hurt to check the roots.

 

[Phychotron]

I'm using roots organic 707 straight from the bag, then putting sand on top to keep out the fungus gnats. It's greatly reduced their population, but they have also sprung up a few places around the house. I'll check out the roots and see what's up.

I want to go hydro, maybe just do 4 DWC or something that requires less physical work.

 

[Sgt.Stedenko]

I dont know that hydro is less work than soil. It depends on the volume of water in your buckets or tubbler. Individual buckets can be more work since you have to check pH and EC of each. Small volume tubs (<2 gallons) can experience pH and EC swings in a day, where soil sits pretty stable. Manifolded buckets (UC's, hydrofarms) can be less work, but imo, soilless mixes are easy peasey.
Like Disco said, add some powdered dolomite lime to your mix if you haven't already done so. Most peat based mixes are acidic and the lime raises the pH and buffers the soil pH.

 

[RubeGoldberg]

agreed with Sgt. Stedenko on that.

right now all over the warm parts of america are growers with DWC buckets who just haaaaaaad to grow "DAT MUFUKKIN HYDRO YO"
and now their hard to cool DWC buckets are full of mushy roots and no budget for a proper chiller in sight.

soil is far more forgiving, if you really want something requiring less work look in to coco on drip emitters or something similar

 

[Phychotron]

Transplanted the sick plant, forgot to put the photo's on my laptop before i left. I'll try and post it next time. i put it in a 5 gallon root pot with ~3gal soil. also got my second light. you can kinda see the sick plant on the right. it's at least getting a good spot under the light now. Everything else is super lemon haze.

Lost my nycd (maybe) in my dwc. I pulled it out but it only had 1 root that was reaching the bottom of the pot, the rest were air dried next to the root cube. I put it in some perlite and will hope for the best. I should never have put it in the pot in the first place, it was much too premature.



Soil is too heavy to work with, plus i live in an apartment and hate throwing it away, plus clean up is a bitch, i spill that stuff everywhere. I figured with water I can just pump it wherever it needs to go. Also, in terms of ease, what's the deal with the autopot? looks simple enough, but does it work as good as it says?

Also, i was thinking that for a dwc expanded setup, couldn't I just add an overflow from all the pots into a larger tank with a pump that continuously fills them up? and if the water was jetted in with a nozel and protective screen sleeve it would assist the bubber.