passive plant killer
- Thread starter delta9nxs
- Start date
heh!, heh!, heh!, i knew my comment about "while technically unachievable" would draw you out!
and now i have you in the crosshairs of my ppk. yes, the hairs are rather angry!
i feel the pulse delivery method is now the weakest point and needs to be worked on.
the criteria to achieve perfection are that you need a disc of water 11" in diameter and 1/4"-3/8" thick to hover in mid air and then fall as a unit. good luck with that.
but it sounds like you are close. have you measured how much you are putting out in 7 seconds?
coco, because of it's "interwoven" nature will resist impact splatter of medium better than the turface/rice hull mix.
anyone who has any ideas feel free to expound on them as this is actually more difficult than it seems it should be.
we need to put x amount of water onto the top of the medium in a short period of time without disturbing the medium.
so, IF, it's out with the gerbils and in with the gnomes?
Hey delta9nxs,
Hope you're feeling well bud...
If you find time to answer, I'd like to run a little thought experiment by you and see if I'm missing something. Sometimes I can get locked into a way of thinking and miss an obvious (to someone else) drawback.
In any event, this might be helpful to some folks with restricted height limits or even stability issues with full size plants or folks who want to try a modular scrog like myself because my 2x4 closet will work better with 2-400w rather than a single 600w but you basically only have 9-10" of useable penetration with 400w.
These busing trays are pretty cheap and they have covers and bridge the gap between a roughneck 3 gal. and a 10 gal. with less height than a double bucket. These are pretty slick because one lid fits both sizes. Mix, match, whatever you think will work for your particular need.
A 5" (going by outside dim.) holds about 6 gallons (231 cu." to gal.)
http://www.foodservicewarehouse.com/thunder-group/plbt005g/p364263.aspx
A 7" holds about 10 gallons.
http://www.foodservicewarehouse.com/thunder-group/plbt007g/p364337.asp
5" only w/lid $6.08. + ship.
http://www.webstaurantstore.com/20-x-15-x-5-polyethylene-bus-tub-bus-box/70215205.html
Even the 5" at 2.5" airspace still hold 2.5 gallons for a res and why not drill out the same size tray, air holes in sides for a pot and a tailpiece? You may have to adjust airspace, less frequency or volume of top pulse to factor for less capillary action being required to keep the top more moist but the large surface evaporation area may not require too much change. Naturally, the media will determine what will be a good fit, (more hulls, less turface?).
One way to introduce more air in the center area would be to drill 1/8"-1/4" holes in a 1-1/4"-1-1/2" pvc pipe about half way up crossways with a snug fitting holesaw and cut pipe 1/2" longer. No fittings and a damn big pot.
It would make a nice tunnel for the gerbils to hide in.
You could screw 1/2" pvc pipe endcaps thru the center on the tub lip and make a removable scrog screen for each tray so they can rotate in and out if you do a cyclical garden, so keeping a reasonably level flower 'sweet spot' for lower powered lights.
You can always scrap the scrog screens if it's a shit idea and turn them into soccer nets and teach the cats to play soccer while you have so much time to sit around stoned and not having to tend the PPK garden. Forget coaching. Cats will play soccer their way, not yours.
Veg can use the same system but since were talking much smaller plants anyway, you could just stick rooted clones in a buried net pot in the tray and just pull the net-pot and plant and stick in the first flower area tray.
Or just put media pipes on 5-6" net pots and drill a few holes in the rez lid. Same difference. Wire-tie the pipe flange to the outside of the net pot, clip off at transfer to flower tray, net pot and all. No real transplant shock and a bunch of space for roots to run. Even the 5" tray gives you 3 gal. of media each for 2 plants
One rez, one float and feed line, one media tub, multiple veg plants staggered as necessary. Totally useless for growing trees but might work nice for SOG, Scrog, small grow areas where long veg, big bush plants wont work.
You'll use a lot more media than small pots but so what? More room is good. Since you were smart enough to buy extra tubs because they're cheap you can cut the bottom out of one leaving a center rib and glue a window screen in the bottom, dump your harvest tub in it, put it in your now empty dirty tub, fill with water and H2O2, let sit a couple hours and drain.
Good to go.
Don't let Wifey catch you using the bathroom tub because she'll make you scrub the whole thing down. Toss the rootballs in her trunk and make her get rid of them.
(It's smart to play it safe)
These are all just goofy ideas I had while ruminating my little closet grow that would be glaringly obvious to any grower with experience, but to noobs like myself it could be useful...if it would work.
I have absolutely no idea if depth of media makes any difference to our little friends as long as there is plenty of it. Due to d9's ingenious tailpiece design we know that a PWT is not an issue any longer, so the question still remains is shallow as good , worse or maybe even better than deep. We shall see. (If I get my lazy ass in gear.)
Everyone, please feel free to add any thoughts or ideas, critiques or flat out ridicule, as you may want.
I've been married a long time and I have kids.
I can take it.
so, you are also an aquarist.
all your ideas are good but i think you want to limit the amount of water in the individual plant reservoirs. the bulk of your solution should be in your volume tank.
i believe this helps to prevent precipitation and enhances solution stability. x amount of water moves faster through a smaller container than a larger one. the old venturi principle at work.
i'll put up the flow diagram again. it shows the continuous mixing and re-blending going on in the floor or contaminated part of the system. by keeping this volume as small as possible you make these corrections more profound.
i want to add that the green circle labeled res should be called the plant/res module as the line from the control bucket goes to the bottom res container and the line from the pump bucket goes onto the top of the plant container above.
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wow! thank you for the help! this thread is in desperate need of organization.
dryer sheets? why not?
Quote:
It would make a nice tunnel for the gerbils to hide in.
Don't the gerbils already have a “tunnel” to hide in?
if someone were just hell bent on hand watering all they would have to do is build one just like this but no float valve, pump, valves or other external plumbing and drill a single 7/16" hole in the bottom reservoir bucket at a point to create a permanent 3" air gap.
then water until a very small overflow is achieved from this hole. you would need to put the "module" in a tub to catch this. if you limited the volume it would evaporate from the tub between waterings.
this would obviate the necessity of needing a large run off to control salt and ph.
it would be an "improved" hempy with a much greater backup volume for redundancy and a greater usable media volume for roots.
turface holds almost as much water as coco and wicks almost as high alone. the rice hulls decrease this only slightly. turface and rice hulls both have a decent cec and so retain nutrients well too.
but i think new folks should be careful with this until it can be proven a little more. i've never heard of anyone else growing in this combination of materials so proceed with caution.
i have grown more plants in straight turface than any other single medium and it performs fine by itself. in fact, for hand watering it is probably better used alone.
mrdizzle did almost this, with big hempies on automated feed schedule, and plumbed his overflow to drain to waste directly into his... well... waste drain. Um... but that is documented somewhere else. A place with thccows, and thcgoats, and thcpigs.
But... to each their own.
The part that I find amusing is that this does, I think, offer an interesting system to general agrarian container gardening... so few crops are of a value that justify the degree of exploration of new ideas by so many gardeners of such diverse background.
I think from time to time, these kinds of communities are legitimately on the edge of known science, and often are pushing the limits of what is known.
EDIT I was guessing seven seconds... somewhere near the 15s mark on the clock. It was pulsing 1/2 gallon. I've adjusted it to sixteen seconds (one-one-thousand, two-one-thousand...) and I have full media coverage of about 1/2 inch. Then it perks. This is my point about the certain level where volume doesn't matter... where full saturation has occurred and nothing else can change that... I'm guessing, based off of water level dropping in control, that I'm moving about .8632 gallons in the pulse.
zeke99
Active member
why would they have to hand water all day? You described this standalone method to me back a couple of months ago and I promptly assembled two for vegetables outside. I water once a day to get that overflow and and have even missed a few days here and there (not concurrently). The plants are kicking ass. Tomato and yellow peppers. 70% cocogrow / 30% perlite. Tomato-tone used during the original planting and top dressed.
Hey D9,
Nah, I still got my liver...such as it is. It's just that I was tossing so many stones they yanked my gall bladder but almost killed me by leaving a log in my bile duct. I guess they thought they had better go back in and take it out when my eyes started glowing a nice fluorescent yellow and my urine looked like Starbucks straight.
So now they have me rotating bile duct stents. They keep taking em out and then decide to put new ones back in. Job security, I guess.
I'm not an aquarist and my diving days are over. (and to me, it's still a Mae West and not a B.C. That's how long ago I go back.) I'm perfectly happy looking at fish...on my plate.
But I did own a restaurant, and that's where I got the idea for busing trays. You went and confounded my plans for killing plants the old fashioned way with DWC, so now I'm trying to figure out a way to go that will work in various ways, horizontal, vertical or scrog. I'm starting to think that a small footprint like I have will be better suited to scrogging with 400w's limited penetration.
In that case, height really no longer is an issue and taller buckets would be fine.
I still planned to have a volume tank feeding the trays, although a much smaller one to scale and just using the rez below the volume tank with a float as a combined rez-controller to the other 2 trays. Small space, double duty.
Wifey ain't too crazy about the closet idea until the young-un gets off to college so I guess the spare bedroom is kinda out of the question at present. Damn shame too, because my water feeds and drains are sitting behind a 1/2" sheet of drywall with a dedicated unused 30 amp 240 dryer circuit just waiting.
Baby steps...
It is an interesting idea whether, say, 2,2-1/2 gallons in a broader footprint would make a difference in stability of the system. How much volume were you running again in the original tubs? (It's a long way back to the beginning of the thread.)
Anyway...just some crazy ideas that I come up with to pass the time.
I'm pretty much captured by the absolute logic and common sense that says why force a poor oxygen holding media like water to to the job that air does quite nicely by itself?
I'm not real smart, but even I know 21% beats 5-7% at best.
And that's not even bringing up the inspired genius of a media wick doing double duty.
Like I said, you're gonna be famous.
Ed R. & Jorge C. are gonna be asking you for signed copies of your book.
Oh, Btw, I never lived in Kentucky but I did spend a night in jail there once. Dem good' ol boys done got me likkered up rite good.
I think it was when I hit my head on the car door when I bent to pick up my keys that convinced the cop I needed a time-out.
Cops even gave me coffee in the morning. Said I was a polite drunk.
Nah, I still got my liver...such as it is. It's just that I was tossing so many stones they yanked my gall bladder but almost killed me by leaving a log in my bile duct. I guess they thought they had better go back in and take it out when my eyes started glowing a nice fluorescent yellow and my urine looked like Starbucks straight.
So now they have me rotating bile duct stents. They keep taking em out and then decide to put new ones back in. Job security, I guess.
I'm not an aquarist and my diving days are over. (and to me, it's still a Mae West and not a B.C. That's how long ago I go back.) I'm perfectly happy looking at fish...on my plate.
But I did own a restaurant, and that's where I got the idea for busing trays. You went and confounded my plans for killing plants the old fashioned way with DWC, so now I'm trying to figure out a way to go that will work in various ways, horizontal, vertical or scrog. I'm starting to think that a small footprint like I have will be better suited to scrogging with 400w's limited penetration.
In that case, height really no longer is an issue and taller buckets would be fine.
I still planned to have a volume tank feeding the trays, although a much smaller one to scale and just using the rez below the volume tank with a float as a combined rez-controller to the other 2 trays. Small space, double duty.
Wifey ain't too crazy about the closet idea until the young-un gets off to college so I guess the spare bedroom is kinda out of the question at present. Damn shame too, because my water feeds and drains are sitting behind a 1/2" sheet of drywall with a dedicated unused 30 amp 240 dryer circuit just waiting.
Baby steps...
It is an interesting idea whether, say, 2,2-1/2 gallons in a broader footprint would make a difference in stability of the system. How much volume were you running again in the original tubs? (It's a long way back to the beginning of the thread.)
Anyway...just some crazy ideas that I come up with to pass the time.
I'm pretty much captured by the absolute logic and common sense that says why force a poor oxygen holding media like water to to the job that air does quite nicely by itself?
I'm not real smart, but even I know 21% beats 5-7% at best.
And that's not even bringing up the inspired genius of a media wick doing double duty.
Like I said, you're gonna be famous.
Ed R. & Jorge C. are gonna be asking you for signed copies of your book.
Oh, Btw, I never lived in Kentucky but I did spend a night in jail there once. Dem good' ol boys done got me likkered up rite good.
I think it was when I hit my head on the car door when I bent to pick up my keys that convinced the cop I needed a time-out.
Cops even gave me coffee in the morning. Said I was a polite drunk.
that's a hell of a lot of water. how often and are you getting any overflow? this is 100% coco? are the leaves tubed at all?
hey, zeke, i'm a little confused. where do i say "water all day"?
“Hey D9,
Nah, I still got my liver...such as it is. It's just that I was tossing so many stones they yanked my gall bladder but almost killed me by leaving a log in my bile duct. I guess they thought they had better go back in and take it out when my eyes started glowing a nice fluorescent yellow and my urine looked like Starbucks straight.
So now they have me rotating bile duct stents. They keep taking em out and then decide to put new ones back in. Job security, I guess.”
I thought maybe you were a transplant like me because of the bile duct stent. My second one fell out into the stomach and then lodged in the intestine causing the bowel resection I had in february. Glad that shit is over. Almost five months of severe pain. I got over the transplant much faster. I'm back up to normal weight for the first time in 8 years and have a decent energy level. Went for a 90 min bike ride this evening and didn't get tired. Why do they have to repeat the stent procedure? Won't the duct heal?
“I'm not an aquarist and my diving days are over. (and to me, it's still a Mae West and not a B.C. That's how long ago I go back.) I'm perfectly happy looking at fish...on my plate.
But I did own a restaurant, and that's where I got the idea for busing trays. You went and confounded my plans for killing plants the old fashioned way with DWC, so now I'm trying to figure out a way to go that will work in various ways, horizontal, vertical or scrog. I'm starting to think that a small footprint like I have will be better suited to scrogging with 400w's limited penetration.
In that case, height really no longer is an issue and taller buckets would be fine.”
I thought you might be an aquarist as they all know how many cubic inches are in a gal off the top of their heads. Few other people do. I never used a bc. They got in my way and slowed me down. I had to run down fish and chase them into holes.
“I still planned to have a volume tank feeding the trays, although a much smaller one to scale and just using the rez below the volume tank with a float as a combined rez-controller to the other 2 trays. Small space, double duty.
Wifey ain't too crazy about the closet idea until the young-un gets off to college so I guess the spare bedroom is kinda out of the question at present. Damn shame too, because my water feeds and drains are sitting behind a 1/2" sheet of drywall with a dedicated unused 30 amp 240 dryer circuit just waiting.
Baby steps...”
my wife used to give me a hard time about growing until I walked out of the back room one day carrying a big ole load of primo bud. Suddenly she became very understanding and helpful.
“It is an interesting idea whether, say, 2,2-1/2 gallons in a broader footprint would make a difference in stability of the system. How much volume were you running again in the original tubs? (It's a long way back to the beginning of the thread.)”
I can't remember right now, it's been a while. I think I changed it a few times experimenting.
“Anyway...just some crazy ideas that I come up with to pass the time.
I'm pretty much captured by the absolute logic and common sense that says why force a poor oxygen holding media like water to to the job that air does quite nicely by itself?
I'm not real smart, but even I know 21% beats 5-7% at best.
And that's not even bringing up the inspired genius of a media wick doing double duty.
Like I said, you're gonna be famous.
Ed R. & Jorge C. are gonna be asking you for signed copies of your book.”
probably not, but thanks.
“Oh, Btw, I never lived in Kentucky but I did spend a night in jail there once. Dem good' ol boys done got me likkered up rite good.
I think it was when I hit my head on the car door when I bent to pick up my keys that convinced the cop I needed a time-out.
Cops even gave me coffee in the morning. Said I was a polite drunk.”
I was thinking kentucky because they have more horses there than anyplace i've ever been. The rice hulls are just catching on as bedding for horses. The place I got mine from uses it in the stalls until it soaks up too much urine then they put it on a walking track. I got a link somewhere to a place that ships 50lb bales. The bales are cheaper than the shipping but I think it would come to less than 50 bucks to get one delivered. I did the math on a bale and if I use 3 quarts per container with the turface I can fill 62 3.5 gal containers. I do a plant a week so for me it would be less than a dollar per container. The stable near me charges 18 dollars for a bale if you pick it up. It is also being used for blown insulation as it is a fire retardant because of the silicon content and has a higher r value than blown cellulose.
Nah, I still got my liver...such as it is. It's just that I was tossing so many stones they yanked my gall bladder but almost killed me by leaving a log in my bile duct. I guess they thought they had better go back in and take it out when my eyes started glowing a nice fluorescent yellow and my urine looked like Starbucks straight.
So now they have me rotating bile duct stents. They keep taking em out and then decide to put new ones back in. Job security, I guess.”
I thought maybe you were a transplant like me because of the bile duct stent. My second one fell out into the stomach and then lodged in the intestine causing the bowel resection I had in february. Glad that shit is over. Almost five months of severe pain. I got over the transplant much faster. I'm back up to normal weight for the first time in 8 years and have a decent energy level. Went for a 90 min bike ride this evening and didn't get tired. Why do they have to repeat the stent procedure? Won't the duct heal?
“I'm not an aquarist and my diving days are over. (and to me, it's still a Mae West and not a B.C. That's how long ago I go back.) I'm perfectly happy looking at fish...on my plate.
But I did own a restaurant, and that's where I got the idea for busing trays. You went and confounded my plans for killing plants the old fashioned way with DWC, so now I'm trying to figure out a way to go that will work in various ways, horizontal, vertical or scrog. I'm starting to think that a small footprint like I have will be better suited to scrogging with 400w's limited penetration.
In that case, height really no longer is an issue and taller buckets would be fine.”
I thought you might be an aquarist as they all know how many cubic inches are in a gal off the top of their heads. Few other people do. I never used a bc. They got in my way and slowed me down. I had to run down fish and chase them into holes.
“I still planned to have a volume tank feeding the trays, although a much smaller one to scale and just using the rez below the volume tank with a float as a combined rez-controller to the other 2 trays. Small space, double duty.
Wifey ain't too crazy about the closet idea until the young-un gets off to college so I guess the spare bedroom is kinda out of the question at present. Damn shame too, because my water feeds and drains are sitting behind a 1/2" sheet of drywall with a dedicated unused 30 amp 240 dryer circuit just waiting.
Baby steps...”
my wife used to give me a hard time about growing until I walked out of the back room one day carrying a big ole load of primo bud. Suddenly she became very understanding and helpful.
“It is an interesting idea whether, say, 2,2-1/2 gallons in a broader footprint would make a difference in stability of the system. How much volume were you running again in the original tubs? (It's a long way back to the beginning of the thread.)”
I can't remember right now, it's been a while. I think I changed it a few times experimenting.
“Anyway...just some crazy ideas that I come up with to pass the time.
I'm pretty much captured by the absolute logic and common sense that says why force a poor oxygen holding media like water to to the job that air does quite nicely by itself?
I'm not real smart, but even I know 21% beats 5-7% at best.
And that's not even bringing up the inspired genius of a media wick doing double duty.
Like I said, you're gonna be famous.
Ed R. & Jorge C. are gonna be asking you for signed copies of your book.”
probably not, but thanks.
“Oh, Btw, I never lived in Kentucky but I did spend a night in jail there once. Dem good' ol boys done got me likkered up rite good.
I think it was when I hit my head on the car door when I bent to pick up my keys that convinced the cop I needed a time-out.
Cops even gave me coffee in the morning. Said I was a polite drunk.”
I was thinking kentucky because they have more horses there than anyplace i've ever been. The rice hulls are just catching on as bedding for horses. The place I got mine from uses it in the stalls until it soaks up too much urine then they put it on a walking track. I got a link somewhere to a place that ships 50lb bales. The bales are cheaper than the shipping but I think it would come to less than 50 bucks to get one delivered. I did the math on a bale and if I use 3 quarts per container with the turface I can fill 62 3.5 gal containers. I do a plant a week so for me it would be less than a dollar per container. The stable near me charges 18 dollars for a bale if you pick it up. It is also being used for blown insulation as it is a fire retardant because of the silicon content and has a higher r value than blown cellulose.
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dgr
Member
Too bad the reality of this board is what it is. I'd ship out hulls for peeps to try. This bag/bale/stuffed tent doesn't look like I'll ever get through it. If I do, there's more where it came from.
You might try contacting these guys and finding out if they deliver to any retailers in your state.
http://www.mallardcreekinc.com/
You might try contacting these guys and finding out if they deliver to any retailers in your state.
http://www.mallardcreekinc.com/
To bad reality is reality.
I can't cook.
I can't clean.
But if that wasn't true... and we're pretending, I'd burn awesome steaks on a fire too hot, and destroy corn with the same fire... but the beer would be cold. 'Cause that's what I know how to do.
And I'd buy you bitches a ride on one of those aeroplanes, and we'd have times. And I'd hear your real stories.
But... too bad the reality of this board is what it is. So instead, I'll fuck around with Jacks, plan for a Paul government, and choke on my own shit cooking.
I can't cook.
I can't clean.
But if that wasn't true... and we're pretending, I'd burn awesome steaks on a fire too hot, and destroy corn with the same fire... but the beer would be cold. 'Cause that's what I know how to do.
And I'd buy you bitches a ride on one of those aeroplanes, and we'd have times. And I'd hear your real stories.
But... too bad the reality of this board is what it is. So instead, I'll fuck around with Jacks, plan for a Paul government, and choke on my own shit cooking.
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Peace,
Brothers
and
Sisters.
Brothers
and
Sisters.
zeke99
Active member
You didn't. ..."all they" became "all day" in my THC addled brain...
