strictlybongz
Member
i couldnt see there being any problem with having any type of plate under a vacuum but im no scientist.
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Thin film vacuum purging
- Thread starter Gray Wolf
- Start date
Good idea where the hot plate isn't used!
I can try out the concept with the three 6" Pyrex petri dishes until I find suitable teflon ones.
Vector Mung
New member
What's gonna happen when you go to get the oil out of the corner of the Teflon with your razor blade and get a sliver in your oil. Nothing until it hits that hot Ti. Then hilarious shit. Like hydrofluoric acid. Huge laughs. What up jump. Listen to this dude jump117, he knows what he's talking about.
Ostensibly with the Teflon, after refrigeration, a razor blade isn't required. It should easily pop free.
Yup, Jump is a first class resource!
Vector Mung
New member
I thought the whole point of Teflon labware was chemical resistance. Oh well, you're the scientists.
Vector Mung
New member
Off specimen bags or off rigid labware? Are you sure you're actually talking about thin films if you have a thick enough layer to snap off...
slightly OT
slightly OT
This is OT, but reading this thread made me angry.
Not because of what you guys have posted, but because of the tangential thoughts that were stirred.
This is why:
The level of expertise that is available out there in the "legit" world, if accessible our community, would render our problems trivial.
The point of this thread, as I see it is:
"How can I quickly separate my goodies from my ethanol solution, without decarboxylization and terpene loss, and recover my solvent at the same time?"
In a better world, I would be able to call up a engineering firm and say:
"Hello, I would like you to design a nitrogen charged, recirculating, solvent recovering spray drying system for the production of high quality hash."
The result would be a machine that I could pour my quick wash ethanol solution into on one end, and collect my goodies as a powder on the other end.
Oh, that it were so!
Spray drying
slightly OT
This is OT, but reading this thread made me angry.
Not because of what you guys have posted, but because of the tangential thoughts that were stirred.
This is why:
The level of expertise that is available out there in the "legit" world, if accessible our community, would render our problems trivial.
The point of this thread, as I see it is:
"How can I quickly separate my goodies from my ethanol solution, without decarboxylization and terpene loss, and recover my solvent at the same time?"
In a better world, I would be able to call up a engineering firm and say:
"Hello, I would like you to design a nitrogen charged, recirculating, solvent recovering spray drying system for the production of high quality hash."
The result would be a machine that I could pour my quick wash ethanol solution into on one end, and collect my goodies as a powder on the other end.
Oh, that it were so!
Spray drying
Problem is formulated correctly, but the proposed solution uses heat and terpenes preservation in this type of drying in doubt,
here are some quotes from article about Spray drying (From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
2=Heating of drying gas,
The liquid input stream is sprayed through a nozzle into a hot vapor stream and vaporised.
spray drying causes thermal degradation
Thermal degradation of products can be overcome by using lower operating temperatures
and larger chamber sizes for increased residence times.
I think ethanol is volatile enough to be vaporized by room temperature nitrogen, with a fine enough mist and a properly sized chamber, no need to heat the drying gas.
Hi ya'll!
I've had some time to play around with thin film vacuum purging of alcohol and in a nutshell, it works slick.
I'll post some pictures below, but for starters, to answer your earlier question Jump, yes, if you vacuum off the ethanol from a 95% azeotropic mixture, the last solvent to leave is water.
Interestingly, I found that I didn't need heat to boil off the alcohol at vacuum levels below 29.5" Hg.
Since my micron gauge broke and I am now using an analog refrigeration gauge, I can't tell exactly what levels I am operating at, but down to -30" Hg on the gauge and the pump is capable of operating at below 100 microns.
As many of ya'll know there are 760,000 microns in an atmosphere, so every mark on my 30" Hg analog gauge would represent 25,333 microns.
I have been having a serious problem getting a good picture of the extract, because with a head on shot, the camera looks right through the film and Pyrex Petri dish. I will set up a light box and try again.
The oil is light in color, but blocks light with depth fast.
Interestingly, the oil was still slightly runny when I first removed it from the vacuum chamber and hardened up sitting in the atmosphere.
The interesting part is that there was no smell or taste of alcohol vaporizing the slightly runny oil immediately after removal. More experimentation needed here to figure out the mechanism involved.
I tried heating one dish in stages, up to ~150F while under hard vacuum, but despite my 6.2 cfm pump capacity, at below 29.5" Hg, it fogged up the inside of my chamber and did not appear to appreciably speed up the process.
As far as taste, when vaporized, the resulting oil is very smooth, mild, and retains much of the floral turpenoid flavors.
So far I have only played with cured trim oil, but have some cured bud to run next, and am waiting for a harvest, so I can test fresh frozen green bud out as well.
I've had some time to play around with thin film vacuum purging of alcohol and in a nutshell, it works slick.
I'll post some pictures below, but for starters, to answer your earlier question Jump, yes, if you vacuum off the ethanol from a 95% azeotropic mixture, the last solvent to leave is water.
Interestingly, I found that I didn't need heat to boil off the alcohol at vacuum levels below 29.5" Hg.
Since my micron gauge broke and I am now using an analog refrigeration gauge, I can't tell exactly what levels I am operating at, but down to -30" Hg on the gauge and the pump is capable of operating at below 100 microns.
As many of ya'll know there are 760,000 microns in an atmosphere, so every mark on my 30" Hg analog gauge would represent 25,333 microns.
I have been having a serious problem getting a good picture of the extract, because with a head on shot, the camera looks right through the film and Pyrex Petri dish. I will set up a light box and try again.
The oil is light in color, but blocks light with depth fast.
Interestingly, the oil was still slightly runny when I first removed it from the vacuum chamber and hardened up sitting in the atmosphere.
The interesting part is that there was no smell or taste of alcohol vaporizing the slightly runny oil immediately after removal. More experimentation needed here to figure out the mechanism involved.
I tried heating one dish in stages, up to ~150F while under hard vacuum, but despite my 6.2 cfm pump capacity, at below 29.5" Hg, it fogged up the inside of my chamber and did not appear to appreciably speed up the process.
As far as taste, when vaporized, the resulting oil is very smooth, mild, and retains much of the floral turpenoid flavors.
So far I have only played with cured trim oil, but have some cured bud to run next, and am waiting for a harvest, so I can test fresh frozen green bud out as well.
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exciting stuff gw and all, glad to have you egg-heads around to give me some serious inspiration/reading material.
no one has mentioned it yet but - cannabis acetate? hope im not the only one impressed... dunno if you told that story yet, point me in the right direction if you did.
also pertaining to e-cig - recently been playing around with a new toy from my local dispensary, a mock of an e-cig but its heating source seems to get much much hotter. hot enough in fact that you notice smoke[in small amounts] from your oil hits. my assumption is that it is actually running hot enough to combust cannabinoids, something that in the past wasnt possible by similar products. it runs using "proprietary" cartridges that you need to buy each and every time. while i like their product, im positive i could reload this with my own oil. im wondering if you have any suggestions for a mixture that would be appropriate to add. [currently i have a number of alcohol extracted oils around, none with what i would consider the correct viscosity for application]
thanks for you help etc, sorry for the tangent.
no one has mentioned it yet but - cannabis acetate? hope im not the only one impressed... dunno if you told that story yet, point me in the right direction if you did.
also pertaining to e-cig - recently been playing around with a new toy from my local dispensary, a mock of an e-cig but its heating source seems to get much much hotter. hot enough in fact that you notice smoke[in small amounts] from your oil hits. my assumption is that it is actually running hot enough to combust cannabinoids, something that in the past wasnt possible by similar products. it runs using "proprietary" cartridges that you need to buy each and every time. while i like their product, im positive i could reload this with my own oil. im wondering if you have any suggestions for a mixture that would be appropriate to add. [currently i have a number of alcohol extracted oils around, none with what i would consider the correct viscosity for application]
thanks for you help etc, sorry for the tangent.
Thanks for the good thoughts bro! Actually locally us'n's idiot savants are mostly judged more bone heads, than egg heads, except for Eloquentsolution, whom of course is a chesty bonette red head.
Thanks also for reminding me that I did publish a thread on cannabis acetate on ICMag at the address below and haven't kept it up to date. Sorry, I got excited and forgot.
In a nut shell, it worked out very well and is exciting! Lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Making cannabis acetate is as simple as making aspirin out of willow bark, or heroin out of morphine, (and et al), and the same process works just as well on cannabis.
It is extremely easy to do, though knowledge and training on how to handle highly volatile flammable liquids and aggressive acids is required to do so safely.
Not difficult at all, but you must pay attention to win and losing isn't pretty!
I won't enter into the debate as to whether cannabis acetate is actually more potent than the raw cannabis absolute that we make it out of, because I suspect is not more potent, only that it arrives, rather than takes effect.
The reason is probably not potency, but because it passes the blood brain barrier faster. Just like aspirin (acetyl-salicylic acid made out of salicylic acid), it works so much faster and seems so much more potent.
As far as E-Cigs, try all of the local formulas and then put some cannabis acetate into the filter! No further conversation will be necessary.
We take aspirin instead of drink willow bark tea because it works so much better. So does cannabis acetate!
I will simply say that it works and impresses most people testing it. More people have responded with a "Wow" response than anything else that we have produced. That is why we are expanding it into our topical formulas!
We currently are extracting enough material to run a cannabis acetate experiment with a formula that we believe will serve well as a oral, a topical, or even as a suppository. I will take pictures and update the post when we do:
Here is the link that I promised:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=184612&highlight=acetate
