Sudden wilt and death

[Tompo]

Hi all!

I have a weird problem with my grow operation to which I need help badly.

The problem is that randomly after changing reservoir water, the plants wilt in the next few hours and die soon after.

My garden is in a 3m x 3m x 2,5m room that I have used for a long time without any problems. I have the dutchpot system as the main hydro and 2 of GHE cuttingboards in small box made of wooden structure and mylar covering it.


One month ago when I had the 2 cutting boards full of clones I watered the other one. I put tap water, ph-, just a minute amount of FloraNova grow and checked pH and TDS. It took about 6-12 hours and 90% of the clones that I gave the new nutrient solution had wilted really badly. It looked like someone cut their roots completely away, it seemed like they did not drink at all, not a single drop of water.

After 24 hours I changed the water again, put the very same amount of everything, checked pH and TDS, and they stopped dying! A few of them survived and some survived with bad damage, most died.

In the other cutting board that is right next to the one where they died, under the same T5 light and with the same air pump, all the clones were doing just fine.


3 weeks ago I transplanted the good cuttings from the other cutting board to the Dutchpot hydro. They grew very well (under a 400w MH bulb) for two weeks and I decided to change the reservoir water to a little stronger solution (from 500 ppm to 650 ppm). Prior to that I had been topping the reservoir and all the time everything was OK.

After I changed the water, plain tap water, pH- (different from the time when the clones died, I bought all new nutrients and ph-), Flora grow, micro and bloom, checked pH and TDS, all OK. Again, 6-12 hours and they all wilted and in the next 48 hours they all died.

At the same time I have clones in the cutting boards that are doing good.

So, it doesn't seem to me that it is the environment, because other plants are doing very good and it seems to be very strongly linked to watering. Each of the times the wilting and death occurred right after I changed the waters.

The two times this happened has nothing in common but the room and tap water. I changed the tanks where I mix the nutrients, I changed the tool that I use to stir the mix, I bought new nutrients and ph-, recalibrated my meters again, and still I was hit with the same problem.

In a nutshell:
1. 3 different hydros (+ 2 plants in soil)
2. Most of the time everything is OK
3. Suddenly when I water some of the hydros all of the plants die and every other hydro is doing good (all in the same room)
4. This has not happened before


What do you think, do you have any idea what could be the possible cause for this?

 

[Tompo]

More information:

A few of the last batch are still alive but their roots were really really weak. If I gently press the roots between my fingers and pull, all of the "hair" detaches and I'm left with a ball of roots in my fingers. All of the wilted ones had this too.

The roots are not looking very healthy either, long and thin and not really white but a little colored (don't know if my nutes color them..).

 

[sallys]

sounds like damping off

 

[Tompo]

Do you think so? Hmm, how could it happen only just after I change the waters? Maybe it stresses them a bit and then it hits?

It really does seem like it would be some kind of an infection, because of the look of those roots..

Is there a magic solution for fungus? Need to investigate this.
Thank you very much for your help!

The roots look like that

Edit: now reading more I'm convinced it's the bastard named pythium thats causing this.

Does RO filters do anything for fungus spores?
Is it enough if I make sure my water is super aerated and on low temps all the time(20-22C)?

 

[Blckbrd]

tap water from a municipal source?
what do you use to adjust ph?
what temperature is the tap water when you add it to your system(s)?

 

[Tompo]

tap water from a municipal source?
what do you use to adjust ph?
what temperature is the tap water when you add it to your system(s)?

I do use tap water from municipal source. I adjust my ph with Advanced Hydroponics of Holland PH- Bloom (phosphorous acid).

Tap water temp around 18C initially.


I shut off my water pump yesterday and now that I visited the room the reservoir smelled REALLY bad. Like it had fermented or something. Huh!

 

[MIway]

What's your rezy temp? Maybe a bit high?



I've seen the waterworks in buildings that have gone bad... got shit growing in em, esp w the water supply is of questionable origin. They kept having a slime mold in their water cultures til they got into filtering. Dunno, your post just made me think of this is all...?

 

[Blckbrd]

municipal tap water is pretty sketchy ... chemicals added to it, and its mineral hardness depends on many variables. Chemicals like chlorine will kill your plants, and minerals will lock out the nutrients they need. You're reporting a sudden death after changing out your water, so it's probably not nute lock-out but poisoning of some form.

18c or 64F temps are pretty cold, IMO. Subject to debate, but your root/rez temps shouldn't be under 70. A combination of cold and municipal chemical could be shutting your roots down.

Buy distilled water at the grocery store for @ $1/gal (NOT mineral water or "natural spring water!!), or use a good filter with charcoal or reverse osmosis, or at the very least let the water sit uncovered for a day before using it. The chlorine will gas out.

Assuming your ph meter is quality and accurate, after first adding your nutes and then adjusting the ph, let it sit for at least 30 mins longer before checking the ph again. Ph will continue to change after you add nutes and ph +/- for quite a while. What your meter reads 1 min after mixing your solution is NOT what it will read 30 mins later.

 

[Tompo]

Nute temps, yes, they have been on the hot side, about 24C, but on some hotter days even close to 30C. In the last 2 weeks it's been constantly under 25C, but I think the damage was done earlier and the consequences can be seen now.

The reservoir had become very very smelly in the last 24 hours because the water was just standing and pythium got to spread super quickly. There was even some slimy things floating around

I have never believed something could take foot in the water so explosively, but I do now.


I was previously in the belief that it had to be because of the reservoir water change, as on both occasions it was exactly the same thing, change water -> 6hrs wilt -> 24hrs death. It most certainly had something to do with water change, but it isn't the cause I suppose.


I have the hydro empty now, all water thrown out and will clean it with chloride and then run a hot mix of h2o2 through it.

Then I will use the water chiller I bought earlier to keep the nute temps at 21C, use an UV-sterilizer in the reservoir and put some h2o2 every few days.

I hope this will keep the MF'ers away!


Thanks for your help, a lot! I really hope it's only this and not something else also, like a toxic of some kind in my water. (Thank you for the tip of leaving the water standing for one day before using!! Will do that too)


I will report back with my experiences in the next few weeks.

 

[dgtm85]

i just recently have been having the same problem and im pretty sure that i know what it is/was, first off i noticed you said you where running flora nova?? if that is right then what i have noticed with this particular product is that it has a partial organic makup in it which in my experiences that nutrient along with above ideal res temps can cause a massive fungus because (and this is merely speculation at this point) the organics in it will feed these fungus spores and allow them to multiply at a insane rate. so i just cleaned all my shit today and filled with regular (ph'd) tap water and some flora kleen with h202 and they perked right back up but still lost 3 and i have never lost a clone EVER so its pretty frustrating.

 

[Tompo]

i just recently have been having the same problem and im pretty sure that i know what it is/was, first off i noticed you said you where running flora nova?? if that is right then what i have noticed with this particular product is that it has a partial organic makup in it which in my experiences that nutrient along with above ideal res temps can cause a massive fungus because (and this is merely speculation at this point) the organics in it will feed these fungus spores and allow them to multiply at a insane rate. so i just cleaned all my shit today and filled with regular (ph'd) tap water and some flora kleen with h202 and they perked right back up but still lost 3 and i have never lost a clone EVER so its pretty frustrating.

Yes, I had FloraNova previously, but changed to Flora series after the first death. You may be right about the organic aspect of it, but the way they say it works is just the opposite. It contains some beneficial bacteria that SHOULD overgrow other fungus, but dunno about that.

Good luck to your operation!

 

[dgtm85]

Yes, I had FloraNova previously, but changed to Flora series after the first death. You may be right about the organic aspect of it, but the way they say it works is just the opposite. It contains some beneficial bacteria that SHOULD overgrow other fungus, but dunno about that.

Good luck to your operation!

ya i know they say that but i think with ideal res temps and all that jaz the bennies would work great but like i said with less than ideal res temps i dint think they are going to be enough to prevent the fungus from growing, all i know is i started them back on the nutes a few days ago with flora series and they look much better and there is virtually no more of the floating gunk and all that in the res, i was having the same problem in flower when i was using general organics calmag, it would cause a nasty buildup stopped using it and like magic "poof" it was gone.

anyway good luck to your op too!

 

[Yes4Prop215]

do the fan leaves show any kind of discoloration? i had a similar problem with a few of my ladies...the leaves turned brown at the new growths and would wilt up and die. also black spots would develope on the stems...and the plant would smell like tea..

i figured it was root rot and tossed all the plants...lucky they didnt attack my whole crop..

i have a thread about it in the infirmary...

 

[Tompo]

do the fan leaves show any kind of discoloration? i had a similar problem with a few of my ladies...the leaves turned brown at the new growths and would wilt up and die. also black spots would develope on the stems...and the plant would smell like tea..

i figured it was root rot and tossed all the plants...lucky they didnt attack my whole crop..

i have a thread about it in the infirmary...

No. No discoloration what so ever, and no other hints either. Just a sudden wilt that happened in a few hours after which the plant would be dead. Just like roots would have been snapped off completely.

I'm quite sure it was root rot or some other fungus, because the reservoir started smelling really bad, rotten / fermented. This didn't happen when the water was circulating but after I let the res water sit for one day.

I hope all good to your operation too!

 

[terminalc]

Get your water temps down. Get lots and lots of oxygen in your water with airstones or whatever. H2O2 might help temporarily. Might want to check out the thread about Brown Algae and bigtokes guide to water quality. also make sure your water never gets stagnant, ie. pumps never never ever stop ever.

 

[Tompo]

Just a short update.
Still having these problems, both pythium and brown algae. It didn't help a bit to lower the res temps to 18-20C and aerate it better, and apparently you can't use UV-C light with GH Flora series nutrients, because of their chelates (the better form of nutrient salts).

I ordered some SubCulture (mycelium fungus) and a GH BioFiltre (a nest for the mycelium to multiply). I have read only good things about this and seems that people has gotten their problems gone away completely with this fungus. The fungus itself is a bit pricey as you need to add a few grams of it every 6-8 weeks, but it's worth the $$ if it does the job properly.

They claim you can grow even in 45C temperatures with it!

 

[Tompo]

Report after 2 days of using GHE BioFiltre & SubCulture: some serious improvements in growth!! So far so good, we'll see how it goes after this