Why do YOU grow organic?

[Dreamz_Of_Green]

I'm not familiar with that how much does that make? Do you recycle?

at full batch of subcool super soil last forever considering u only use 35% of it per 5-10gallon pot on the bottom ............ a few 60:Gallon trashcans full will last u atleast a year or 2. we use 8x large 3CFt bags of sunpro 830 mix as base if that tells u anything.this soil is a layered soil which means u stick bottom 35% as super soil and then put other 65% as vermiculite and perlite on top of it (DO NOT MIX) ...
this allows your plants to grow and veg to get established then they hit the bottom layer of supersoil and all hell breaks loose.makes for awsome beautiful colored plants reds yellows blues purples greens oranges ...expensive but worth every penny considering a 50 day veg and 60 day flower = 6-9 oz per plant per 1000w HID

 

[IE2KS_KUSH]

That's cool^^
But you are saying that costs more? Idk I must be missing something. That is an intriguing mix though ima read up some more on that.

 

[Stankie]

...expensive but worth every penny considering a 50 day veg and 60 day flower = 6-9 oz per plant per 1000w HID

I veg for about 30-40 days and get the same yield each off of 3 plants stuffed under a single 600w. There are much better soil mixes than 'Subcools'. Much better. Recycling your soil makes it even cheaper, and ironicallydunno, you get better results as time goes on.

True living organics is by far the cheapest, easiest way to grow the best weed. If it is more expensive than 'dro, you're doing it wrong.

 

[mad librettist]

Why do YOU grow organic?

I sort of have a reverse subcool going on in one 15gal.

on top is about 6". straight from the worm bin, and the rest is calcined fuller's earth amended with compost and such.


so far so good.

 

[thesloppy]

Profit margins and sustainability.

Growing organically is cheaper and does not deplete the earth faster than it can be replenished. (I'm looking at you hydro guys dumping nutes into your water like Armageddon is coming)

That's a very fine line to toe. Those of y'all using ENTIRELY and EXCLUSIVELY your own waste to compost, or locally sourced ingredients are certainly free to talk all the smack you want.

On the other hand, if any of you growing organically for ecological reasons are using any sort of product labeled 'guano', you aren't doing the earth any favors, as humble as it may sound. Bats and seabirds aren't domesticated animals, they don't live on farms, they live in caves and on islands, and any efforts to harvest their crap kills them in large numbers and harms their habitat, in some cases irreparably. Let alone the secondary financial and ecological costs of literally shipping shit across the world.

Seaweeds, limes, and sands, can all be extracted from the earth in a a manner of ways, some less ethical than others, but it will all be labeled 'organic'. How many of us truly know how all of our nutrients were sourced? Just because the end result is considered organic by no means it was sourced ethically, or with any concern for the earth.

Bone meal and blood meal are exactly what they sound like. Ground up animal bones, and dried up animal blood. I know more than one fanatical vegetarians who regularly dump boxes of ground up animals on their plants. The irony there is staggering.

Conversely, some of the chemical/mineral nutes that seem like they'd be obviously less 'eco-friendly' at initial consideration, may be largely manufactured in a lab, and/or so concentrated that they can be manufactured, processed, shipped at a far lesser costs to the user and the earth.

....my point being: In many cases growing organically is not necessarily growing ethically or ecologically sound. If that is truly your concern, source ALL of your ingredients locally, and make the vendors tell you where all their ingredients come from.

 

[mad librettist]

Conversely, some of the chemical/mineral nutes that seem like they'd be obviously less 'eco-friendly' at initial consideration, are largely manufactured in a lab, and/or so concentrated that they can be manufactured, processed, shipped at a far lesser costs to the user and the earth.

ok, so because chemical ferts (in powder form) are cheap to ship, they are less resource dependent? I think you fail to imagine dry organic amendments, for one, and for two, you fail to consider the resources required by that lab to make the ferts, and the resources required to transport those products to the lab. Worm poo is probably recycled animal poo from nearby livestock.

Kelp is processed close to where it is harvested. So is fish. Although in that case you have a point when the products are in liquid form.

however, let's compare the cost in energy and materials to produce an amendment or fertilizer, not just the cost of transporting the final product.

....my point being: In many cases growing organically is not necessarily growing ethically or ecologically sound. If that is truly your concern, source ALL of your ingredients locally, and make the vendors tell you where all their ingredients come from.

at my place, very little is spent on garden products. many others spend way less. others spend more. growing organic has a good shot at leading you to a reduced footprint though, so your point here is not well taken. no it's not perfect, but even those of us who depend on bottled organic nutes are making an effort and are more likely to have a reduced footprint than our chemical brothers and sisters.

 

[mostnonymouse]

That's a very fine line to toe. Those of y'all using ENTIRELY and EXCLUSIVELY your own waste to compost, or locally sourced ingredients are certainly free to talk all the smack you want.

On the other hand, if any of you growing organically for ecological reasons are using any sort of product labeled 'guano', you aren't doing the earth any favors, as humble as it may sound. Bats and seabirds aren't domesticated animals, they don't live on farms, they live in caves and on islands, and any efforts to harvest their crap kills them in large numbers and harms their habitat, in some cases irreparably. Let alone the secondary financial and ecological costs of literally shipping shit across the world.

Seaweeds, limes, and sands, can all be extracted from the earth in a a manner of ways, some less ethical than others, but it will all be labeled 'organic'. How many of us truly know how all of our nutrients were sourced? Just because the end result is considered organic by no means it was sourced ethically, or with any concern for the earth.

Bone meal and blood meal are exactly what they sound like. Ground up animal bones, and dried up animal blood. I know more than one fanatical vegetarians who regularly dump boxes of ground up animals on their plants. The irony there is staggering.

Conversely, some of the chemical/mineral nutes that seem like they'd be obviously less 'eco-friendly' at initial consideration, are largely manufactured in a lab, and/or so concentrated that they can be manufactured, processed, shipped at a far lesser costs to the user and the earth.

....my point being: In many cases growing organically is not necessarily growing ethically or ecologically sound. If that is truly your concern, source ALL of your ingredients locally, and make the vendors tell you where all their ingredients come from.

there's a thread going on in the grower's forum addressing exactly what you're talking about. This is why there has begun such a push and movement toward not only organic agriculture, but a transition back to small, local, sustainable farms. That really is the only way for it to work on a large scale. I've been picking up my own seaweed when I go to the beach and have started collecting waste from local supermarkets for compost and bokashi. I realize I'm supporting a system that I am speaking against with the supermarkets, but I'm not going to let good waste go to waste, so to speak.

I've got a couple small bags of guano but they are from long before I started learning about sustainable agriculture. I'll use them up and never buy the stuff again. My goal is to develop a system that supports both of my gardens from my own waste, and the waste from local livestock and various businesses. My nicest OD plant this year is in a bucket full of free cow manure, rotten hay, free compost and free leaf mold. I'm a believer.

 

[thesloppy]

ok, so because chemical ferts (in powder form) are cheap to ship, they are less resource dependent? I think you fail to imagine dry organic amendments, for one, and for two, you fail to consider the resources required by that lab to make the ferts, and the resources required to transport those products to the lab. Worm poo is probably recycled animal poo from nearby livestock.

I'm sorry, I should have bolded and underlined 'some' (and I went back and did so). I wasn't trying to suggest that all chemical/mineral ferts are necessarily more ethical, sustainable or cheaper to manufacture/process/ship than organic sources, just that the possibility certainly exists, which is contrary to public opinion. Apologies if it rubbed you the wrong way, I wasn't trying to pick a fight or suggest that anyone/everyone growing organic is being unethical.

FULL DISCLOSURE: I should admit that I don't put all that much effort into sourcing my own materials or researching a company's/product's ethics or origins, I've just been guilt-tripped and scolded by too many locals assuming their shit didn't stink simply because they were buying expensive crap (literally) with the 'organic' title.

 

[mad librettist]

I'm sorry, I should have bolded and underlined 'some' (and I went back and did so). I wasn't trying to suggest that all chemical/mineral ferts are necessarily more ethical, sustainable or cheaper to manufacture/process/ship than organic sources, just that the possibility certainly exists, which is contrary to public opinion. Apologies if it rubbed you the wrong way, I wasn't trying to pick a fight or suggest that anyone/everyone growing organic is being unethical.

FULL DISCLOSURE: I should admit that I don't put all that much effort into sourcing my own materials or researching a company's/product's ethics or origins, I've just been guilt-tripped and scolded by too many locals assuming their shit didn't stink simply because they were buying expensive crap (literally) with the 'organic' title.

nobody gave you any guilt here.

and you are basically saying that SOME organic growers are leaving a bigger footprint than some chem growers.

but the bottom line is that organic growers are MUCH MORE LIKELY to have a reduced footprint relative to production.

 

[thesloppy]

but the bottom line is that organic growers are MUCH MORE LIKELY to have a reduced footprint relative to production.

Yup, that would be my assumption as well...but I do still think there's some room for argument, if only because of so many of the more popular commercial organic producers still insist on putting some sort of guano in some or all of their products. Whether folks are growing organically or chemically, it seems to be a good rule of thumb that the more expensive and exotic sounding the product, the less likely it is to be ethically sourced.

 

[bonsai]

I've always considered the use of guanos as the "elephant in the room" so to speak. Definitely not ecologically sound to be using it down here in my corner of the planet.

 

[DARC MIND]

My goal is to develop a system that supports both of my gardens from my own waste, and the waste from local livestock and various businesses. My nicest OD plant this year is in a bucket full of free cow manure, rotten hay, free compost and free leaf mold. I'm a believer.

first thing you should try to do, is cut "waste" from your vocabulary...thats a industrial materialist made up word that simply doesnt exist considering life's dominant role on this planet..
organic matter and or bio-nutrients/energy properly defines the true definition, plus sounds a bit more promising

 

[h.h.]

Smug alert!
http://www.southparkstudios.com/guide/episodes/s10e02-smug-alert

If you want to conserve, turn out the lights.

 

[CascadeFarmer]

and have started collecting waste from local supermarkets for compost and bokashi.

Same here basically. I know the owners of the local markets and will start collecting the goodies after I get my tester bokashi setup going. Once I'm comfortable with that I'm looking at a 4 55 gallon drum setup. Gonna try a little co-op kind of thing next year with some peeps. With Bokashi I can probably recycle restaurant table scraps...at least for pig food.

As for manure in the area I'm in...more than I could process.

 

[mad librettist]

Same here basically. I know the owners of the local markets and will start collecting the goodies after I get my tester bokashi setup going. Once I'm comfortable with that I'm looking at a 4 55 gallon drum setup. Gonna try a little co-op kind of thing next year with some peeps. With Bokashi I can probably recycle restaurant table scraps...at least for pig food.

As for manure in the area I'm in...more than I could process.

bokashi is basically silage.

a relative of mine uses silage to feed pigs in winter, but of course it runs out at some point. apparently, the pigs refuse to eat for about a week after the silage runs out.

we are talking pigs refusing to eat.


bokashi will drive dogs, pigs, chickens, etc... CRAZY. and they will smell better and look better for it. keep it in small amounts for the dogs.

 

[mostnonymouse]

If you want to conserve, turn out the lights.

I do. 12 hours a night

 

[Dreamz_Of_Green]

I'm not familiar with that how much does that make? Do you recycle?

the original recipe makes 45.5 Cf , nope dont recycle i got large flowerbeds around my home and a compost pile im sure it would still be half ass ok if u amended same recipe back into it ...let sit another 30 days to heat up n cook. the flowers love supersoil outside in the beds. ive seen more colors and flowers this year then any after sprinkling a very very light layers around annuals in april