FlunCked Soil Analysis

[inreplyavalon]

I am posting this for new user name "the wanderer". The guy is not too handy on the computer so showing how great this site is and how to post and start threads. I felt bad for him after hearing his story and thought someone on this forum could give some guidance. I will let him tell his story in his own words,

Thanks everyone in advance for responding to this thread. I first began December 2009 by looking over forums for a soil mix for my outdoor grow.

Stats:

• South West Colorado
• Greenhouse 24x22
• Three rows dug out 20x3x6(Colorado Clay soil surrounding mix)

Searched many outdoor grow forums and came up with this mix:

Prepare soil using 10 yards of super soil from a landscape supply which is 50/50 sandy loam and mushroom compost and then i mix in another 10 yards of straight mushroom compost for 20 yards of soil .

i then added

• 1 pallet = 63 bags coco coir
• 25 4cu bags perlite
• 50lbs azomite
• 75 lbs of tiger 90 sulphur
• 150 lbs norwegian alfalfa
• 100 lbs dr earth bud bloom
• 200 lbs oyster shell
• 50 bone meal
• 65 lbs corn gluten meal
• 50 crab shrimp shell meal

Then mix it up with a loader spraying it while i mix with earthworm/compost tea to activate and then let it sit for atleast a month because the mushroom compost is pretty hot .

First mistake:
Cut short cooking the soil and put the soil right into the rows and wet it down with worm casting tea.

After about a month I got a ph-EC analysis because I had put a couple of plants in the mix which did not respond right. The analysis was 7.8 and 5.2 respectively. At which point I added sulfer to bring down the PH. No plants were grown in mix last summer. Let cool in rows over the past year.

Fall 2010

• Turned over soil.
• Smelled horrible rotten egg smell
• Dug out one of the rows to bottom,
• Brought out smell really bad.
• Black/blue areas next to soil and rock/clay
• Foot of standing water, hence the smell
• Spread out soil and let dry over the winter

Spring 2011

• Water was still prevalent in the row and other rows.
• hired a guy to come out and put in a french drains, ezflow drains, so roots could go around.
• Drain was put in about a foot and half from the bottom with mix underneath.
• I feel that it should of been put at the bottom or just above the bottom.
• Once row was filled back in we dug out the other two rows which had the same horrible smell.
• added french drains to those as well.

Soil analysis ppm=mg/kg

• Nitrate Nitrogen (NO3-N), mg/kg - 130
• Organic Matter, % - 10.9
• Phosphorus (P), mg/kg - 770
• Potassium (K), mg/kg - 2550
• Sulfur (S), mg/kg - 4540
• Calcium (Ca), mg/kg - 9510
• Magnesium (Mg), mg/kg - 640
• Sodium (Na), mg/kg - 1086
• Zinc (Zn), mg/kg - 12.7
• Iron (Fe), mg/kg - 39.7
• Manganese (Mn), mg/kg - 15.7
• Copper (Cu), mg/kg - 2.0
  
• Soluble Salts (EC), mmho/cm - 5.60

So the soil is still hot.

This years grow.

# 5-6 foot plants
planting into 100 gallon wonder pots
# 1-2 foot plants
planting into 25 gallon wonder pots

Using 13 yards of soil

3 yards of above mix
4.5 yards of sunshine #4
5.5 yards local bulk gardening soil



Questions:

1. Will my 13 yards of soil still be to hot in respect to higher valued ppm’s in the soil analysis?
2. Should I pull out the soil in the fall or this summer to let cook/cool.
3. If i do pull out soil, should I make a thin layer so rain a snow washes the soil through or make a big pile to let it cook and continually turn over?
4. Should I keep the hot soil mix out of rows and put rock and sand in all rows then just use 100 gallon pots? Keeping french drains in so there is drainage in the rows.

 

[the wanderer]

today I am going to mix the new batch using 20% of my hot mix. Put on roll up sides on the greenhouse and throw the new 40% shade cloth over the greenhouse. Big issue with heat going above 110 degrees.

Will try to post some picks of my big ladies later!

 

[inreplyavalon]

Come on peeps!!!
I told The Wanderer how this is the ONLY site worth posting on, cause the folks here are generous with the knowledge.

I dont know a thing about outdoor soil mixes but i know some of y'all do...?

 

[nomaad]

1.From the looks of your mix, it would seem that you could plant right into it... if I understand your post correctly. Somebody correct me if i am wrong, but any compost that's been properly turned and cared for over the course of a year should be good to go.

Have you actually put a test plant into the soil to see what happens? Some OD growers rock some pretty hot soil. Butte posted an analysis of his mix in his thread... might want to compare.

I also wonder if your perlite levels are optimal. Seems like a much heavier mix than i am used to seeing from the successful growers I've been watching.

2-4: Read up on solarizing (use search function fo links in posts by Trinity Gold) your soil over the winter. You might have success in a greenhouse if you have enough sunny days during the winter... If you have enough soil (as you seem to) you could have one solarizing one batch over the summer for use the following spring. solarize over the summer in thin piles, then plant winter cover crops of clover and alfalfa and introduce some beneficials by way of turning in some fresh compost or watering in some tea.... Then turn in the cover crops in the late spring before planting. I'd personally hit the whole thing with Hygrozyme once a season. If I had the space and twice as much medium as needed, I'd do something along these lines. Soill cooks fine in piles and raised beds... and it helps if you turn it often... trenches with bad drainage just don;t work as well.

Drainage is one problem that the use of raised beds, smart pots etc. intentionally avoids. I am not a fan of trenches unless you know what is happening in the water table under them. Might take some time to get to understand . No such concern in the containers. This assumes your GH has enough overhead to handle the size plant you are trying to achieve. On that subject, containers can help to limit plant size.. something you have to do in a GH but not so much outside. Butte, IC's king of big plant trench warfare, has no restrictions and his plants can get as big as they want. I have 13-15 foot spacing in my garden and find that 200 gallon containers with an 18" soil depth works those spacial requirements nicely with my monster strains. I would surely want the limiting quality of containers in any greenhouse were I its master. I guess it depends a lot on what you're going for. For example: A high plant count sea of green with less veg time would not require the same kind of limitations.

What is your intended plant count/size/etc for the GH? How many hundreds and how many 25's?

Using shade cloth rather than ventilation in the greenhouse to control temps may be effective, but will also effectively limit the amout of sun your plants gets.... proper ventilation FTW. If i wanted 60% of the available sunlight i'd move to Oregon. (no offense OR, I'd rather be living there than California...) Gotta be able to control the environment to grow the best ganja.

If i were rocking a CO Greenhouse, the man I'd be tapping for wisdom would be ROOTWISE.

 

[nomaad]

I'd also be worried about soil borne pathogens in a big way... fusarium and pythium and other nasties will probably be rampant in the stuff that sat waterlogged... even though that had something to do with all the sulphur you put in.... you should water trichoderma hazinarium into your plants in their current pots pre-transplant and hit everything with Mycostop (streptomyces grisoveridis).

 

[CascadeFarmer]

2-4: Read up on solarizing (use search function fo links in posts by Trinity Gold) your soil over the winter. You might have success in a greenhouse if you have enough sunny days during the winter... If you have enough soil (as you seem to) you could have one solarizing one batch over the summer for use the following spring. solarize over the summer in thin piles, then plant winter cover crops of clover and alfalfa and introduce some beneficials by way of turning in some fresh compost or watering in some tea.... Then turn in the cover crops in the late spring before planting. I'd personally hit the whole thing with Hygrozyme once a season. If I had the space and twice as much medium as needed, I'd do something along these lines. Soill cooks fine in piles and raised beds... and it helps if you turn it often... trenches with bad drainage just don;t work as well.

I'm experimenting with that a bit this year in one pile. It started as a layered straw experiment with about 300+ lbs of wild Miners Lettuce. Didn't work out like I wanted so tore apart and re-layered. Decided to just grow a bunch of clover on it for now.

I call it my Chia Pet...lol...

Definitely over seeded. We'll see how it grows in the next few weeks, will probably till in along with some wild greens then re-seed. This pile is for next year...

 

[the wanderer]

Thanks nomad for the info!

Just mixed the new soil today and planted 11 in 60 gallons and 2 in 100 gallons wonder pots. Still have 7 to go tomorrow, was thinking today that I should plant one in the ground. I have one of the smaller plants in the soil which isnt looking so hot.
I put weed cloth under the pots so the roots could not pass into the hot soil, but am thinking once they are that big, where the roots are searching at the bottom they will be able to handle the soil. I have 30 going into the 25 gallons that will stay outside. I was going to plant the 20 large in the greenhouse in 100 gallons but did not have enough space so went back for the 60 gallons.
Nomad do you have 13-15' of spacing between each plant? Maybe I need to take out some of my plants. I don't have any spacing between them in the rows and 3' around for walkingi am going to need th shade cloth, was 90 today had sides up and was still 105 in there!

Going to have to finish this post tomorrow, writing on iPad sucks.

 

[nomaad]

In 100 gallons, the minimum spacing for a hedge-free garden is 8-10 feet. You can probably get away with 8 unless you have extra wide pots which will encourage extra wide plants.

Why not just take off the greenhouse cover until it gets cooler? Do you get rain in July-August?

 

[mapinguari]

If i were rocking a CO Greenhouse, the man I'd be tapping for wisdom would be ROOTWISE.

Another kind CO GH grower who leaps to mind is the famous Manitoid, he of the lasagna compost and "gardening with (almost) free supplys" thread.

 

[supermanlives]

thats alot of sulfur and calcium

 

[the wanderer]

Nomad we do get rain in august although we are on the dry side of town. But the temperature dropped to 40 degrees the other night with the sides rolled up. I do have vents and fans that are open/running from 11am till 7pm due to the heat. Where would I find the trichoderma hazinarium? I already re-potted, should I still water in the TH and Mycostop?

All plants are replanted in 60 gallon wonder pots. Spacing is not optimal, will have to manipulate as they get bigger.

Mix is 20% hot soil, 35% sunshine #4, and 45% local bulk garden soil. I am going to give them a lite dose of fish emulsion, Omega 2000 soil enoculant http://www.groworganic.com/fertilizers/soil-inoculants/omega-2000.html and liquid kelp as the lower leaves were yellowing a dropping off.

I will then do a weekly watering with worm casting tea, every other week foliar with fish emulsion, brix mix, and kelp, then spray with sm-90 the other weeks. I will give them a lite dose of eco-nereo/humic acids a couple weeks after they show flowering. I may add some big bloom dry fertilizer, time will tell.

For the rows and hot mix, they will have to wait until the Fall as the pots are currently resting on the soil. I think I will take down the gh for two reasons, one to have easier access to dig out the rows and two to lift up the gh by 4-6'. Right now I only have about 2' of open sides, I would like to expand that to 4-6' of open sides, that should fix the heat issue. I will read up on solarizing the soil over the summer. I think putting the soil outside the rows to allow it to get washed by rain and snow will help cool things down. In the spring I will re-assess another soil analysis and add in more perlite and Peat moss. I am not sure what to do about the rows. My current thought is to fill them in with rock up to the size of these current pots below the surface and just use the pots. Any thoughts would be great.

Thanks everyone for the help.

I will try to get some pics up, didn't have time after hauling dirt for two days to take any.

 

[the wanderer]

Is there an optimal ph for foliar feeding?

 

[nomaad]

filling in the rows with gravel will give you great drainage under the pots.

I do my Brix Mix foliars at 5.8 pH... considering everything that is in it, 5.8 is a recommended happy medium between all those different components. Are you making homemade brix mix or did you find a stash somewhere?

what is your percentage perlite in that mix?

 

[the wanderer]

Ok thanks. I found a worm casting tea recipe today. I will post it tomorrow. Basically adds in fish emulsion and kelp. Do you think I should add these elements into a soil feed if I am already using them in a foliar? Or should I look for local compost to add to the wc tea?

I bought a 5 gallon bucket last year with a bag of dry mix that I didn't use. They sent me the recipe if you want it. I will post tomorrow.

Not sure What the percentage is in sunshine #4 I didn't add any additional though.

 

[the wanderer]

Another kind CO GH grower who leaps to mind is the famous Manitoid, he of the lasagna compost and "gardening with (almost) free supplys" thread.

Thanks

 

[the wanderer]

Here is the Brix mix Peaceful Valley emailed me.

Liquid Brix Mix

16.5% Molasses
16.5% Non GMO Pure Malt
25% Phytamin 4-3-4
24% Humax
16.5% Liquid Sulfur
1.5% Therm-X 70

Dry Brix Mix

13% Maxicrop
19% Fertall MB Powdered Chelates
31% Powdered Sugar
37% Diamond K Soluble Sulfate of Potash


Feel free to change the blend to suit your needs and the availability of the ingredients. You don't have to use every ingredient for the mix to be beneficial. For example: If you don't have Phytamin 4-3-4, you could substitute for a liquid fish or a dry fish powder. If you prefer you can use liquid kelp extract in place of maxicrop. If you don't have a trace mineral deficiency you can do without the powdered chelates. Keep in mind that kelps such as maxicrop do provide some trace minerals. If you don't have access to a liquid sulfur just leave it out of the blend.

 

[the wanderer]

Nomad,

have you worked with casting tea or compost tea? I used just a wc tea last year to a 3-1 ratio of tea to water. My question is should I be mixing the casting tea with a compost then mix with water, mix both together and water straight with this mix, or do a mix like this without compost tea:

6 cups Earthworm Castings
¼ cup sulfur free molasses
.5 Tbsp kelp
1 Tbsp soluble liquid fish
4+ gallons Chlorine free water


Here is a pic of the right side of the GH.

https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&ik=8c35c3e5a1&view=att&th=130e731e3c6f2ba9&attid=0.1&disp=inline&zw

 

[the wanderer]

Ok jus posting to put up some pics! plants are looking great. check them out. Will have to learn to trim a bit more like the butte to get the globe going. but happy with what i have with all the soil issues I have had.

[/IMG]

 

[the wanderer]

More pics!

 

[inreplyavalon]

YEs! Those are looking lovely.
Your gonna need to figure out a support system for those ladies ASAP. Maybe tie them to your GH rafters and hope they dont pull down the entire structure.
One of those looks to be a pretty full blown sativa. Hope she is not still flowering when the freshies start dumping
Remind me of the strains. I remember white widow. Also are they from seed or clone? White widow seeds i know have a few VERY sativa expressing phenotypes.