passive plant killer
- Thread starter delta9nxs
- Start date
You guys are making me feel less bad about vegging my Sour Strawberries in quart cups for 3 months...teeheehee. There is not much visiable coco in the root ball anymore. Just a root sponge at this point. Meh...
Been away for a bit. Lots of good stuff going on I see Mr Delta. New genes is always fun! I was lucky enough to stumble into some new stuff myself. A friend of a friend of a friend had some Quirkle that had been selected down out of many packs. Nice stinky sticky girl! Clones coming soon...
I've been severely neglecting my garden lately. I blame it on PPK's!!! Went in last week to see my 56 day, almost ready to cut girl all frosty frosty...with PM!!! Argh! Dam humidity is insane right now. Eagle 20 in veg now, and sulfur for a while. That plant will make some nice butter...or BHO. Finding that finally got me off my ass. I'm finally building my rooms the way I want! New wall is up, 100amp circuit parts are bought (ugh!) and I'm working my tail off. Wanted to get you guys input on flower room lighting. Single room design, 8kw max(lights), 15.5' x 12'. Thinking 36k mr slim for cooling and whatever I need for dehumi. All vert lighting, cool tubes, 1000's or a mix of 1000's and 600's. Heres a diagram with 40" light circles and 46" plants. The left one I was thinking standard 6 1k lights. 2 plants get 4k all around. I'd veg those special. Right one is 8 lights, all plants getting 3 sides. I was thinking of some 600's in that arangement.
Interested to hear opinions. Max plant count for me in flower is 24 so I can play around with it a lot.
hey, DW, i like the one on the left. with 6 1 k's. it fits your room shape better. i get your room dimensions at approx 12.33 ft x 15.5 ft. you should be able to run 12 large plants in there with barely enough room to work them. are you going to cooltube the lights?
maybe so, jj, maybe so. but i was speaking in very general terms anyway.
i believe i have observed this with my own plants so i speak of it.
i have also read papers on root and shoot damage and the effects of it.
i think the idea is most important to consider when growing short term crops at high speed, which is what indoor cannabis growers do.
there can be no doubt that root pruning causes a slowdown in growth in the upper canopy in cannabis in most situations. i have observed this many times.
look for studies on short term flowering crops. i'll see what i can find when i have time.
later
PERPETRATOR!!!!!!
PUT HIM ON THE LIST!!!!!!!!!
PERPETRATOR!!!!!!
"ON THE LIST" > right below, ImaginaryFriend, delta9nsx and many others. I'm one of the sheep, middle of the flock, back to the wall < yeah, I'm not 'that' kind of sheep!
I'd like to see how they arrived at that conclusion. Do you have a link for any of those papers?
There are many things to consider, when growing fast indoor crops. I'm seeing that my root pruned pots have more media utilization when I harvest. The roots are not concentrated at the bottom as much.
I've growen in net pots with coco and this let to a really dense root ball with 0 matting. These pots where airpruned. They didn't do better but didn't do worse than a side by side table of the same size pots. To me this is a tool or a choice like topping. Topping can help manage the canopy of indoor plants. Root pruning seems to help mange the limited size of containers used indoors.
I'd like to set up a large pot with a rooted clipping and compare it to a small pot veg that gets a root pruning before going into a large pot. I just don't have room for enough to get a good sampling right now.
I flower for 8 weeks and have 8 weeks to veg. I do 4 plants / 1000w lamp. Even if the growth is better with non pruning, I would have to use large pots and there would be lots of light hitting soil for a few weeks
what i mean is, I'm not making a general statement as to root pruning doesn't slow growth. Rather, in my artificial environment (containers and limited light), I am currently employing root pruning and topping or LST of dominant cola.
I agree that root pruning can cause a slow down depending on conditions.
Stranger
Member
Delta9nxs,
Thank you for all of the time and effort you have invested in this project.
I have read 143 pages, ( about 4 days now) have followed most all of the links and looked at all of the photos. All I can say is Holy &^%*&!!!!
20zips are you kidding me?
O.K so I had this really crazy idea, I am going to build my own boredom machine!
I am one of those people that if I really like a cake I ask for the recipe.
If I really like the cake I will not deviate at all and use the exact recipe so I can expect to get the same great cake when I make it.
I am going to apply the same logic to D9's PPK machine.
I can not duplicate the lights (I have 1k total and am strictly a personal grower), but I can build a set up with no other deviation.
I have almost finished sourcing all materials. I need to go to WalllyWorld to get the Super Goop plumbers edition, black latex tubing and wait for Clarence to send me my Sweet Tooth #4 beans. I believe in this system, and the thoughts that went into perfecting it. Before I try to change anything I want to do it just the same as it has evolved here.
I have a tent that is 6.5x6.5x7. I have a bit of experience with my version of a Hempy (Bato Buckets).
I will be starting my own thread with a condensed build and prep linking to the proper parts of the thread.
I hope I get to be one completely bored IC-Member that just has to log in because I dont have anything else to do and am just tired of smoking all of my great bud.
Hello PPK Crew
You guys and Mistress rock! Thanks for the knowledge so far, I gained much.
Thank you for all of the time and effort you have invested in this project.
I have read 143 pages, ( about 4 days now) have followed most all of the links and looked at all of the photos. All I can say is Holy &^%*&!!!!
20zips are you kidding me?
O.K so I had this really crazy idea, I am going to build my own boredom machine!
I am one of those people that if I really like a cake I ask for the recipe.
If I really like the cake I will not deviate at all and use the exact recipe so I can expect to get the same great cake when I make it.
I am going to apply the same logic to D9's PPK machine.
I can not duplicate the lights (I have 1k total and am strictly a personal grower), but I can build a set up with no other deviation.
I have almost finished sourcing all materials. I need to go to WalllyWorld to get the Super Goop plumbers edition, black latex tubing and wait for Clarence to send me my Sweet Tooth #4 beans. I believe in this system, and the thoughts that went into perfecting it. Before I try to change anything I want to do it just the same as it has evolved here.
I have a tent that is 6.5x6.5x7. I have a bit of experience with my version of a Hempy (Bato Buckets).
I will be starting my own thread with a condensed build and prep linking to the proper parts of the thread.
I hope I get to be one completely bored IC-Member that just has to log in because I dont have anything else to do and am just tired of smoking all of my great bud.
Hello PPK Crew
You guys and Mistress rock! Thanks for the knowledge so far, I gained much.
Thanks for the input guys. I'm thinking the one on the left as well. I think the right hand one could grow 2lb tree's but the veg would be a bitch. I'd have to rotate them or light them from all sides throughout. Too much work, time, effort, watts....
Lights will be centered on plant mass as best as I can. Was considering throwing a couple 600w MH's in there up above the canopy as well but that can come at a later date.
Space in flower is a concern. I need to be able to get in there, so that way dictate a change. I'll know once I start building it out.
Lights will be centered on plant mass as best as I can. Was considering throwing a couple 600w MH's in there up above the canopy as well but that can come at a later date.
IF, 8k is just what I'm comfy with. Any more and I'd need to look into another power drop. 200A main w/ 100A dedicated to grow leaves just enough for the house...for now. Right now I pre-veg under T5 and then they go around a 600w MH. I'm still able to pull big trees so at most 2 600's in veg. I think it will be tough to get everything around a single bulb.
Space in flower is a concern. I need to be able to get in there, so that way dictate a change. I'll know once I start building it out.
If you don't rotate them they can grow and move their leaves in a way to get light. Many people grow vertically and don't rotate. I have no experience with vert lighting, I've only read about it. You may want to research methods that don't require rotating the plants.
I don't know if you are into training them, but some guys train them on a vertical screen. You can kind of wrap the bulb. Personally, that sounds like a maintenance problem for me.
I usually only rotate when I need to fill the canopy, but I grow with horizontal hoods.
I do train them but not to a screen. Basically trying to shape them into a 12-16" deep bush that's really wide but not too tall. They tend to grow into the area between the bulbs during stretch.
The rotating would only be for the right hand pick as they would be lit on all sides. Current veg and flower has no rotating. I'm sold on the left one. Going with 4 lights right away and will add 1-2 plants per week as they get ready. I've got a good backlog of root bound mini-bushes that will explode as soon as they hit a PPK. Then the trick is keeping the rotation going so I always have a plant ready to fill a newly empty spot.
On another note, I finally broke down and bought an EZ-cloner. I've been having clone issues lately due entirely to my own neglect. I'm hoping the EZ will be hands off.
The rotating would only be for the right hand pick as they would be lit on all sides. Current veg and flower has no rotating. I'm sold on the left one. Going with 4 lights right away and will add 1-2 plants per week as they get ready. I've got a good backlog of root bound mini-bushes that will explode as soon as they hit a PPK. Then the trick is keeping the rotation going so I always have a plant ready to fill a newly empty spot.
On another note, I finally broke down and bought an EZ-cloner. I've been having clone issues lately due entirely to my own neglect. I'm hoping the EZ will be hands off.
I'm not worried for you. Provided you run perpetual.
This will balance out-to a degree-your spacing on both sides of the door. You'll only need four weeks of PPK veg, so with twelve plants on a nine week cycle, that's four little plants and four big plants in veg... and they'll only share the light for a week. Piece of cake.
i leave and all kinds of shit happens. my watch broke with the hands stuck on 4:20.
hey, snook, you hear about the two rams out in the pasture when a good lookin' woman walks by?
one pokes the other in the ribs and says "i hear they're not half baaaaaaad!"
and now i'll turn you over to our own "King of Comedy", fresh from an unbelievable performance at the famous Lizard Lounge in the fabulous Off Ramp Motel, the Comedic Master Baiter himself, Imaginary Friend!
jj, here is a quick one for you.
http://www.plantphysiol.org/content/87/4/794.short
and i'm not saying that root pruning is not a valuable tool, just that it slows the plant down a bit and if you are on a schedule and don't have recovery time you end up with less yield. i do it when i have to but prefer to catch the clone in the "window of opportunity" where nothing has to come off.
Howdy, Stranger! i see you're new to these parts, welcome!
sounds like an old Gunsmoke episode!
thank you for your interest and good luck.
DW, have you ever seen how the cloners i use work? over 30 months now with no failures.
i just rooted 5 untried strains in them successfully.
last night the first g13 seedling was put into flower at 29". a few pics below. editing to add that this plant was vegged for 29 days.
and i have finally gotten around to using the pine bark, rice hull, turface mix. a swt #4 went into veg in one today. if this works right i'm done with "grow stores". they won't have anything i need anymore.
hey, snook, you hear about the two rams out in the pasture when a good lookin' woman walks by?
one pokes the other in the ribs and says "i hear they're not half baaaaaaad!"
and now i'll turn you over to our own "King of Comedy", fresh from an unbelievable performance at the famous Lizard Lounge in the fabulous Off Ramp Motel, the Comedic Master Baiter himself, Imaginary Friend!
jj, here is a quick one for you.
http://www.plantphysiol.org/content/87/4/794.short
and i'm not saying that root pruning is not a valuable tool, just that it slows the plant down a bit and if you are on a schedule and don't have recovery time you end up with less yield. i do it when i have to but prefer to catch the clone in the "window of opportunity" where nothing has to come off.
Howdy, Stranger! i see you're new to these parts, welcome!
sounds like an old Gunsmoke episode!
thank you for your interest and good luck.
DW, have you ever seen how the cloners i use work? over 30 months now with no failures.
i just rooted 5 untried strains in them successfully.
last night the first g13 seedling was put into flower at 29". a few pics below. editing to add that this plant was vegged for 29 days.
and i have finally gotten around to using the pine bark, rice hull, turface mix. a swt #4 went into veg in one today. if this works right i'm done with "grow stores". they won't have anything i need anymore.
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Sheep/Rams. What do they know. I actually was going to ask you about those cloners. I still use a bubbble cloner, with pretty good sucess, but not 100%. Where are the posts showing them? ***G13> I have the order form and money order sitting on my desk, why dont I mail it? That would only be 2 more seeds (but only 2(3)). About 200 on hand, do I need more? It is looking good though, 11 petal fan leaves gets me excited. Your sweetooth #4 , is it from seed originally (I know they 'all' are, originally, way back, from seed). 29 inches in 29 days, yeow!
100persent pumice... = ideal soil-less medium.... =delta9nxs said:
garden/er...no particle debris & degradation from/of bark...
no tiny turfase particles....
no multiple mediums....
no compaction....
from scion to tree, same medium....
consistent capillary action, porosity....
simple to extract roots after season....
delta9nxs said:
there is no need to ever prune roots...
there are solutions for continuous root growth, thru every stage of season.... w/out ever pruning roots...
2cents
enjoy your garden!
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daggerinmyback
Member
if we can find a way to stack a bunch of 1 gallon PPK's as 99 5gal buckets wouldnt fit in the 2 rooms (we did get 24 with enough space for lights and plants in one but 99 miniPPK's in a PPK SOG sounded better to one of them, he's already buying and building one with one gallon and other room with a few 2gallon he ordered...
the other friend wants to run a 2kw setup and max of 6-10 big beasts in 5 gal buckets with the 3.5 in em...
how do I post pics on here? took the iraqi cuts pics with a damn camera phone 8mp with lights on which may have screwed its focus up, but we'll see I love it grew super fast and flowered faster lol total time spent on grow was minimal and I was NEVER home...
thanks
in the study they used two week old seedlings. I am taking about root pruning something that is fully mature (rooted cutting) just becoming root bound (not heavily) in say a 1 gallon pot
I would never cut a plant in any way that was two weeks out of seed
When I did my observations in my aero cloner, the plants where from clippings (mature) and they had foliage and developed stems with roots going to the bottom of the container. After taking off about %50 of the root mass on half, I saw no diff anytime after and at flower there was no measurable diff.
I would like to do this again with coco because I don't grow in a aerocloner, DWC, or aero. Maybe, I would get different results. They where never root bound. I can imagine that in containers they may slow while root bound waiting to be pruned and moved up to a large pot. I am not claiming root pruning is always beneficial, just that there are times where it doesn't seem to harm anything. I have a idea that it causes the roots to branch and better utilize the container, but this is just my hunch.
maybe this explains why one study (the one I posted) showed that root pruning doesn't harm (it actually helped a bit) and another study showed that it harmed plants
When two studies contradict you have to look at the details. In doing so you can usually find large amounts of variable factors, which may explain things.
Any how... I'd like to agree to disagree on this topic for now...
... no S.O.G. imaginary experienses....
w/ 2k, maybe only 4 planties, total, something like --
X..0..X
X..0..X
-- where `X` = plant, & `0` = lite...
maybe not able to get `6-10 big beasts` w/ just 2k.... they maybe crowd each other out @ weeks 3-6 of bloom...
w/ just 4... & veg until 3+ft (wide) x 4-6+ft (tall), minimum... under same 2k... they fill out entire area by week 6-8+.... easier to tend garden, if desire trees... maybe only try 1 cultivar (only 1 type), from 1 base stock, for same growth/bloom average....
or...
if desire larger trees.... maybe only 2, or 1k per 1 planty, something like --
...0...
X....X
...0...
-- which gives lite on 3 sides from just 2 lites.... vegged under same 2k, should fill entire area where `....` are....
... no much pic experiense either....
maybe.... place pic in album, then click icon second from right, next to `quote` icon, to place pic locasion from album into thread.... maybe...
hope this helps
2cents
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Hi mistress, do you have a link to some pumice info : where to buy, etc.?
I'm at 31 days bloom and the very top leaves on the main colas are very 'skinny' and somewhat clawed, folded down from the middle. I'm pulsing about 14oz evry hour, might those skinny leaves meen to little water or too much? EC=1.4-1.5. The rest of the plants/leaves look b e a u t i f u l!
I'm at 31 days bloom and the very top leaves on the main colas are very 'skinny' and somewhat clawed, folded down from the middle. I'm pulsing about 14oz evry hour, might those skinny leaves meen to little water or too much? EC=1.4-1.5. The rest of the plants/leaves look b e a u t i f u l!
Stranger
Member
Snook, be careful posting pics from a cell phone. Many have geotagging information embedded in the pictures. That means the gps co-ords of exactly where photo taken is in the photo itself. Regular cameras do not have that issue. It can be circumvented on a phone, just wanted to make sure you at least knew of the possiblity. it.
