Good plant by product to replace blood and bone

[Bennyweed1]

Hey IC,

I currently use blood and bone but I want to switch out to plant by products to replace the two. I cant think of what plant by products have similar properties like blood and bone.

Something that offers a slow release with similar NPK ratios.

Fish meal is high in N but am not sure about P.

blood is 12-00-00
bone 3-15-10

fish meal 10-6-2

Are guano's considered animal by products?...well obviously but if am trying to stay vegan will using guano's make it none vegan?

 

[mad librettist]

use a diverse base of plants, and that's all you need.

jaykush's signature should be your guide

 

[Tilt]

alfalfa is a good source of N. Beware of salt in some feeds.

 

[Bennyweed1]

alfalfa is a good source of N. Beware of salt in some feeds.

Already use alflafa but I believe it is a fast acting release?

 

[jaykush]

alfalfa is only fast release because its alfalfa powder. powdered anything is fast release. use coarser/whole materials for slower release. it will end up basically a mulch. the lower layer with soil contact slowly decomposing releasing nutrients as needed.

like mad said, if your plant mulch is diverse, as they decompose your nutrient/mineral needs will be met.

 

[organic P]

like mad said, if your plant mulch is diverse, as they decompose your nutrient/mineral needs will be met.

With some of the soil mixes being so hot and plants thriving in them, it seems hard to understand how even a rich diverse mulch would be enough to really push a plant, and provide its needs from start to finish.

 

[CC_2U]

With some of the soil mixes being so hot and plants thriving in them, it seems hard to understand how even a rich diverse mulch would be enough to really push a plant, and provide its needs from start to finish.

organic P

What makes a soil 'hot' isn't the richness of the soil but rather unfinished compost being used. That's what creates the problems in the root zone.

Like adding too much alfalfa meal - it will definitely 'heat up' your soil. Composted alfalfa will not assuming it was processed, finished and aged like a good thermal compost should be.

For example you could grow in straight worm castings if you were bored out of your mind and had way too much money to throw around. Castings (again finished and aged correctly) is about the richest thing you can add to a container garden but it won't burn the plants.

HTH

CC

 

[jaykush]

With some of the soil mixes being so hot and plants thriving in them, it seems hard to understand how even a rich diverse mulch would be enough to really push a plant, and provide its needs from start to finish.

well like most things when it comes to organic gardening. it depends. it depends on a lot of things. if your soil is basically sterile, hard and compacted, doesn't drain well. a mulch will help but its not going to get that plant to go boom. the mulch effect is more for soils that have been established. beginners should still concentrate on building good soil first imo. once your soil is fertile, the mulch layer is actively decomposing ALL the time. which means your plant is getting food little by little 24/7.

and like mentioned above, particle size has a LOT to do with it. crush everything to a powder and then mulch with it, your plants will die from nutrient overdose/burn very fast.

 

[organic P]

ok, i was missing a step there. actually building the soil. having never used plant products to feed my plants i am ignorant to their capability. ive used tomhills mix and super soil and these mixes are so rich in manure and animal products that its hard to wrap your mind around building a soil that can compete with these mixes.

 

[mostnonymouse]

Jay are you at the point now that you simply feed 100% through mulch or are you feeding with hydrolysate or remixing dry amendments and compost in between runs? Very interested in your personal methods.

 

[Tilt]

I will make a couple of points and I will let the experts take over.
1. Vegan - a proper living soil will have animals living and dying inside of it as part of the nutrient cycle. I think feeding your plants (soil) a vegan diet reduces the available diversity.
2. Benny wanted specific plants to add to his soil mix. kelp is good for K. molasses has some P. Most organic growers tend to drift away from NPK ratios. NPK is more important to chem growers.
3. look in the fermented plant extracts thread. the first page has a list of plant parts NPK ratios.
4. there are some plants that are poisonous to other plants Jaykush has pointed that out in other threads
5. worm castings is an animal by product
6. guano is bat shit or bird shit ( terradactal shit but it would probably considered soft rock phosphate)
7. The answers to the question you are asking have already been answered in other threads in this forum. You just need some time with the search engine's help.
8. Diversity is a pretty general answer guys. The least you could do is point him in the right direction with some specifics.

 

[jaykush]

Jay are you at the point now that you simply feed 100% through mulch or are you feeding with hydrolysate or remixing dry amendments and compost in between runs? Very interested in your personal methods.

pretty much, i don't amend anymore, haven't used fish anything or bottle anything in years( except the humic acids i was testing from about a year ago). i do use the occasional plant extract(nettle, comfrey, lavender, chamomile, etc..). but mostly its just building a proper soil at first, then keeping the active decomposing mulch going and actually building soil. so far this season i have used nothing but just water and the plants are growing great. no pest problems, growing 2-4 inches a day at least, a nice dark green/blueish leaf, happy as can be.

that being said my personal methods are all over the place, i use what i have around me, and that varies from season to season, year to year. once you learn about soil and the natural materials around you, you basically just go with the flow and everything comes out superb.

 

[mostnonymouse]

pretty much, i don't amend anymore, haven't used fish anything or bottle anything in years( except the humic acids i was testing from about a year ago). i do use the occasional plant extract(nettle, comfrey, lavender, chamomile, etc..). but mostly its just building a proper soil at first, then keeping the active decomposing mulch going and actually building soil. so far this season i have used nothing but just water and the plants are growing great. no pest problems, growing 2-4 inches a day at least, a nice dark green/blueish leaf, happy as can be.

that being said my personal methods are all over the place, i use what i have around me, and that varies from season to season, year to year. once you learn about soil and the natural materials around you, you basically just go with the flow and everything comes out superb.

Thanks. My goal is to use up all of the guanos and dry amendments I have purchased in my next several runs and eventually cut them out completely. I talked to my state's office of shoreline management this week and they gave me the OK to collect as much beached seaweed as I can find. Heading out tonight and tomorrow to find what I can and begin a new compost pile. Next week I'll be on the hunt for wildflowers.

 

[jaykush]

thats pretty much what i did. while using up the guanos and such that i knew how to use, i was experimenting with other means like FPE and such. as i got to know that better the guanos and products were running out. by the time i had the natural farming down i was out of all the products.

be careful when collecting wildflowers, know the plant your collecting from. because its easy to over harvest and as the years(sometimes less) go by there will be less and less to collect from meaning you have to travel farther. when harvesting wild plants you want to leave it better than when you got there. this way next year you have more, and after that more, and more. tending the wild so to speak.

proper harvesting will increase what you get. topping nettles extends your harvest greatly rather than just pulling the plants early for example.

 

[self]

Thanks. My goal is to use up all of the guanos and dry amendments I have purchased in my next several runs and eventually cut them out completely. I talked to my state's office of shoreline management this week and they gave me the OK to collect as much beached seaweed as I can find. Heading out tonight and tomorrow to find what I can and begin a new compost pile. Next week I'll be on the hunt for wildflowers.

Get a bunch of rockweed, aka Ascophyllum nodosum.

compost it, puree it, dry it and powder it, whatever! its tits.
I soak it in five gallon buckets till it rots a bit, then strain and dilute.
heals plant wounds exceptionally fast. puree some aloe and add that too for supreme plant healing power.


As for no blood or bone: I'm heading in this route myself.
so far I'm generally substituting feeding with nettles for N and comfrey and bracken for P. rockweed for micronutes and growth stimulators...check out the FPE thread.
good luck!

 

[mad librettist]

oh I made some great worm castings from that once.

only negative is its popular with flies.

 

[self]

oh I made some great worm castings from that once.

only negative is its popular with flies.

very popular with the flies!

 

[mostnonymouse]

Got 3 trash bags going to hopefully grab some more in a bit if I can find another spot. Wash the salt off before use?