PH Issues with Coco .. Can anyone help a Pirate ??

[Grizz]

just a note, I keep my ph at 5.8 to 6.2, natural up drift in a 55 gal res. my grow friend hasent checked his ph in 4 years, always around 6.4 when i check it, his plants consitantly out yield mine, same nutes, same watts, same everything. this tells me the old ph 5.5 to 5.8 aint for everybody

 

[Pirate]

Wow, 6.5 is crazy high for coco, its not even close to being in range.

Second of all, how can you complain about managing a drip to waste system? Ive ran both and its just as simple as flooding.
you already have the res,pump and the table with containers.

Why are you are asking for help, but dont want to budge on anything?
Not budging on cost is one thing, work is another, you cant skimp out on both and still want an efficient and easy to handle system.
Coco rewards consistency .

Nobody is complaining Phat. Nobody is looking to skimp on anything. I am a very busy man running a business I need the most effective and efficient method with the least amount of time involved. Not from laziness...from actual lack of time. I have run many types of systems (Including drip) and have mastered them all and now I am ready to try coco. Nobody on my end is looking for a lazy way out. I work 20+ hours a day 7 days a week.(no joke) I am not asking for help and then refusing to budge. I am asking for help with a Flood and Drain system, Not a drip. When I am looking to run a thousand feet of drip tube with a drain to waste.....I now know who I need to ask. So thanks man.

If you can offer advice on a flood and drain...Lets talk.

If a flood and drain will not work with Coco....that's all i need to hear and I will go with rocks or something else of my choosing. But others seems to disagree with the notion that it is not possible and that drip is the only way. Some on here seem to think that flooding coco is possible with a lil manipulation. That's who I wanna hear from.

And now Pirate will address the man who seems like he has some solid advice on the system I am looking to run verses steering me towards the system HE wants me to run.

flood and drain is the right choice then. as mentioned, coco has a learning curve and you can sort out your set up to work just fine. its just going to take some time making adjustments to get it where you want it.

to recommend ditching the f&d and set up a drip dtw so you don't have to worry about ph drift is suggesting it's easier to set up a whole new system than it is to spend a little time dialing what you have.. besides, a drip is going to take time to dialed as well.

set your ph lower let it drift up, set the ph of your top offs lower as well.

fresh coco out of the bag has a runoff around 6.5. with fresh coco, pot up your plants and water them all by hand through the top and "rinse" the coco for the first few waterings, chuck that water and fill the rez fresh.

flood the tray deep... get the water level as high up the sides of the pots as you can. with a shallow flood most of the root zone will only "wick" moisture and can lead to salt buildup but in this case ph would drop over time, not rise. 50 gallons is on the small side, a larger rez will last longer between top offs and will also buffer ph swings over time, less frequent adjustments.

get a mag drive pump with enough hose attached to reach all the plants from the rez, drop it in the rez and hand water all the plants through the top a couple times a week to prevent build up.

just work on it, takes a little time but that's how you learn.

Shwweeeet !! SOLID ADVICE !! Now dats what Ima talkin bout.

Appreciate it Forty.

I'm on it.
.

 

[Pirate]

just a note, I keep my ph at 5.8 to 6.2, natural up drift in a 55 gal res. my grow friend hasent checked his ph in 4 years, always around 6.4 when i check it, his plants consitantly out yield mine, same nutes, same watts, same everything. this tells me the old ph 5.5 to 5.8 aint for everybody

Agreed. In aeroponics I typically ran my PH around 6.2 during bloom to uptake more Mag.
.

 

[cyber echo]

If you run coco with a recirculating system I think you need hydro nutes that are made for that.
Most coco nutes are made to be run to waste, not recirculate to the res. pH fluctuation in coco is normal as the plant eats up the nute mix, and if the medium is watered properly (which is to say frequently) then that reduces the effect of the pH swings and keeps the medium's pH in check.
You should check if your coco has buffering agents in it, and if not, I think you can get some from Canna (Cogr ?)
Otherwise, just switch to a drip system like many others have advised already.
Goodluck !

 

[phat15]

aight man, sorry bustin yo chops. Just trying to make sure you are doing whats best.lol

Anyways, the ph issue can be attributed to 2 things. You have way too many girls goin, you are feeding 50 thirsty girls in coco, which is basically a sponge. You should def take the advice of some of the people hear and upgrade the reservoir(which offers nothing but benifits). You have alot of root mass and medium feeding off that res every flood.

Ive ran a measly 15 gallon res in a 2x4 tray, and the ph was stable using the Lucas' Formula in rec. F&D. But this was with only 6-9 plants, and in Rockwool. You have a ton more medium and roots!

The other issue may very well be the Ph buffer in bagged coco being way too solid (i experienced this with Canna's Coco). You can however, bypass by expanding your own coco from bricks, which is a bit of work, but if you get the right stuff like botanicares bricks. You can get by, by simply expanding in water.


What may also help is getting a good recirculatory nutrient, House and Garden is decently priced the more of it you get, the cheaper it is, a 5L set of A+B is only around $65

 

[Pirate]

aight man, sorry bustin yo chops. Just trying to make sure you are doing whats best.lol

The other issue may very well be the Ph buffer in bagged coco being way too solid (i experienced this with Canna's Coco). You can however, bypass by expanding your own coco from bricks, which is a bit of work, but if you get the right stuff like botanicares bricks. You can get by, by simply expanding in water.

No prop man. Sorry if I sounded like an asshole. I'm not really. (in my own mind) LOL

So are you saying that pressed blocks of coco do not have the same PH issues as the bagged type?

 

[phat15]

No prop man. Sorry if I sounded like an asshole. I'm not really. (in my own mind) LOL

So are you saying that pressed blocks of coco do not have the same PH issues as the bagged type?

Not in my experience, the bagged stuff's buffer is hard! it doesnt budge. The Bales are just compressed coco, you can do whatever you want to it, its at its rawest form. You might have to go thru a resevouir or 2 to get a nice buffer tho.

 

[greenatik]

pirate,

you might get something useful from my sour grape grow in my sig.... flood n drain with coco and smart pots... i layed out a nute schedule as well in there...

but i have just converted my whole setup to drip to waste and heres why:

1.without rez under the table, i have an extra 2 feet of headspace
2. no more ph swings
3. no more rez to clean coco and debris from in DTW
4. i have a 5 table perpetual setup, harvesting every 10-14 days, they all run off the same exact rez, 850 ppm all the way through flower. flush for 10 days. KISS
5. overall i have used much less water/nutes in drip system
6. flood n drain required much more dialing in with the watering, drip i just put 2 drip stakes per pot, and they all get watered two-three times a day for a minute each
7. 50 gal rez lasts me 4 days, 5 tables @ 12 plants each

flood n drain is possible and can achieve good results.... but since I have switched back to drip, I have been spending more time watching the plants grow, and less time adjusting reservoirs everyday


my

 

[Pirate]

pirate,

you might get something useful from my sour grape grow in my sig.... flood n drain with coco and smart pots... i layed out a nute schedule as well in there...

but i have just converted my whole setup to drip to waste and heres why:

1.without rez under the table, i have an extra 2 feet of headspace
2. no more ph swings
3. no more rez to clean coco and debris from in DTW
4. i have a 5 table perpetual setup, harvesting every 10-14 days, they all run off the same exact rez, 850 ppm all the way through flower. flush for 10 days. KISS
5. overall i have used much less water/nutes in drip system
6. flood n drain required much more dialing in with the watering, drip i just put 2 drip stakes per pot, and they all get watered two-three times a day for a minute each
7. 50 gal rez lasts me 4 days, 5 tables @ 12 plants each

flood n drain is possible and can achieve good results.... but since I have switched back to drip, I have been spending more time watching the plants grow, and less time adjusting reservoirs everyday

my

You have made a strong argument for Drip with DTW. Hmmmmmm. All you guys have me thinking now.

Also, I have noticed something in the last few days. Right now I have 3 tables set up. 2 of them are flood and drain with a recirculating rez. Then I have 1 table that I have had to hand water from the top since I am not set up to flood that one yet. Well you can probably guess where this is going......Right?

The hand watered drain to waste table is doing great and the plants are healthy, healthy healthy. Flood and drain is looking like shit. I stopped the F&D 2 days ago and started hand watering those as well. Looks like they are doing better. Not what I initially wanted but..... when your wrong, your wrong. Today I am going to build a drip manifold and give it a go.

I'll keep you all informed and I appreciate the input and advice.

Once I get set up I'll start a new thread / grow show. I think you'll like what I got going. (XJ-13, Blueberry, Cherry Bomb, GDP, Berry OG, Sour D & Sno Cap)
.

 

[caljim]

DTW for the WIN!

 

[phat15]

You have made a strong argument for Drip with DTW. Hmmmmmm. All you guys have me thinking now.

Also, I have noticed something in the last few days. Right now I have 3 tables set up. 2 of them are flood and drain with a recirculating rez. Then I have 1 table that I have had to hand water from the top since I am not set up to flood that one yet. Well you can probably guess where this is going......Right?

The hand watered drain to waste table is doing great and the plants are healthy, healthy healthy. Flood and drain is looking like shit. I stopped the F&D 2 days ago and started hand watering those as well. Looks like they are doing better. Not what I initially wanted but..... when your wrong, your wrong. Today I am going to build a drip manifold and give it a go.

I'll keep you all informed and I appreciate the input and advice.

Once I get set up I'll start a new thread / grow show. I think you'll like what I got going. (XJ-13, Blueberry, Cherry Bomb, GDP, Berry OG, Sour D & Sno Cap)
.

hey man. at the end of the day, you want what works. Props for seeing the light! lol

 

[krunchbubble]

if you need help setting up a kickass drip system for super cheap, i can help....

glad your figuring your problems out.....

 

[Hydropimp]

So krunch describe your drip system plz

 

[Pirate]

Howdy Scallywags !!

Questions about the 6/9 formula:

Do I use the same calculations for 6/9 as I would for 8/16 Lucas formula. Here is an example:

I ran my rez at 1/2 strength as a flush with a drain to waste. After using 1/2 the gallons (20) I added 20 more gallons of fresh water. That gave me a PPM of 360 after fresh water. How do I get back tyo a full strength solution?

This is what I did but I don't think it is right cause I ended up low on PPMs.

40 gallons at 360 ppm. I want 900.
900ppm - 360 / 900 = 540 / 900 = 0.6 x 6 = 3.6 x 40 gallons = 144 mills micro
I then did the same exact formula for Bloom but used 9 as my multiplier verses 6 to get 216 mills bloom. I don't think this is how its done for bloom. Ending PPMs were in the 700 range.

Cant be right. What is the formula to add back fresh water and then calculate the ratios to get the proper ending ppm (whatever one wants it to be) for heads 6/9 coco solution?

How about "Maxibloom"? Anyone try that and is the add back formula the same as a Lucas for Flora Nova Bloom?

Thanks in advance for your help?
.

 

[poo-hand]

I cant give you much info on running coco in a recirculating system as I have only used coco in a DTW set-up. Forty gave you some really good advice telling you to top feed for the first week or 2 to flush the coco, after that initial flushing coco becomes very forgiving.

I have had much better success using the bricked coco vs. the bagged coco and you get more for you money with the bricked coco. just throw it into a rubber maid container and throw 5 gallons of lightly nuted and ph'd water into the rubber maid and the coco will break up very easy in an hour or less.

Canna makes a specific nute for running coco in a recirculating system, who knows maybe that stuff is the ticket.

 

[greenatik]

Howdy Scallywags !!

Questions about the 6/9 formula:

Do I use the same calculations for 6/9 as I would for 8/16 Lucas formula. Here is an example:

I ran my rez at 1/2 strength as a flush with a drain to waste. After using 1/2 the gallons (20) I added 20 more gallons of fresh water. That gave me a PPM of 360 after fresh water. How do I get back tyo a full strength solution?

This is what I did but I don't think it is right cause I ended up low on PPMs.

40 gallons at 360 ppm. I want 900.
900ppm - 360 / 900 = 540 / 900 = 0.6 x 6 = 3.6 x 40 gallons = 144 mills micro
I then did the same exact formula for Bloom but used 9 as my multiplier verses 6 to get 216 mills bloom. I don't think this is how its done for bloom. Ending PPMs were in the 700 range.

Cant be right. What is the formula to add back fresh water and then calculate the ratios to get the proper ending ppm (whatever one wants it to be) for heads 6/9 coco solution?

How about "Maxibloom"? Anyone try that and is the add back formula the same as a Lucas for Flora Nova Bloom?

Thanks in advance for your help?
.

I just use up my entire rez before refilling so I dont have to do any mind numbing calculations

but considering you had half a rez at half strength, we can say that only 1/4 of the 40 gallons is full strength. instead of calculating full strength for the 20 gallons you added, calculate for 30 gallons

30 x 6 = 180
30 x 9 = 270

should get you closer to your 900 goal

 

[One Love 731]

I only got the results I wanted in ebb and flow trays when I switched to CNS17 Coco nutrients, they mix up clear and are stable as can be in a recirculating coco system.

Currently I'm modifying to a drip to waste system as many have mentioned. It may be more work initially in set up but wont need the constant rez adjustments, add backs, etc. Seems to be a lil eiser to automate as well.

Good to see ya on IC brotha Pirate. 1

 

[ajc0k]

Definitely go with DTW if you can! I water 36 plants in 5 gal buckets with 25 gallons exactly every day and they grow perfectly, I let the pots dry out alot too. I quit the FLoranova and heads formula and just started using Maxibloom, i love it so far..I fill up a big mason jar halfway with hot tap water, (use 1 tsp/gal = 5 grams) (then 7g mid flower), then I use a little hand held blender for 30 seconds to make sure it's good, then toss it in my 20 gallon trash can with a recirc pump + drip clean + ph UP to 6.0, and your good to water. Repeat every other day in veg, every day in flower with a new batch of nutes.. most simple shit i've ever done.