PH Issues with Coco .. Can anyone help a Pirate ??

[Pirate]

What up Coco Crew ??!!

Been reading about growing in coco for a while now and decided to make a switch over from Aeroponics after a year long break from growing. I just don't have the time Aeroponics requires to maintain right now so I figured Coco would be a good method to try. However, I am already (within a week) running into issues. GRRRRRR... Hoping somone here can offer some suggestions.

I am trying to run a flood and drain table with a 50 gallon rez feeding a 3 x 6 tray with 48 plants in a SOG. My problem is with PH. In aero I can set it and it stays the same for days. Maybe it will rise very slowly over time. In coco I am having to adjust daily and the plants are suffering for it. (reminds of rockwool ph issues)

I set my PH to 5.5 / 5.8 and within 24 hours it is up to 6.5. Killin me here.

Anyway, Am I suppose to treat the coco like you would treat rockwool? Should I soak my coco in PH adjusted solution PRIOR to use in order to stabilize it?

Here's what I got:
Tap water with 100 PPM and 6.7 PH output
50 gallon rez (recirculating flood and drain timed at 4 times per day when lights are on / No watering with lights out)
H3ads 6/9 mix / General Hydroponics Flora Series nutes. Approx 900 ppms / NO additives.
Setting PH to 5.6 / 5.8 (rises to 6.4 or 5 by next day)
3 x 6 table
48 plants in 8 inch net bottom pots, Vegging. (wont flip to 12/12 till I get this squared away)
Botanicare Cocogro Coco. From bags not blocks. No perlite.
air temps at 78 / 80 when lights on..... 68 / 70 lights off
ventilated hoods
good air exchange throughout room
Quality Hanna combo PPM/PH pen

Thanks in advance for any help
.

 

[emerald city]

Does your water come from a well?? is your water considered hard..Have you had the alkilinity checked? I would mix up a couple gallons of fert mix and let it set for a few days.Then test again...
With the buffers in the GH ferts and the addition of some ph down you should easyly be able to dial in and stabilize a "consistant" water supply to the proper number 5.8-6.0.
I used to have the same problem working in promix but never with coco..Good luck

 

[Pirate]

My water comes from the city but that comes from a spring.

I have been using the water here for several years with no problems. Very good water and no its not hard. I can set the PH and it will stay there until I pump it into my medium.

It has to be the coco cause I only have this issue when using Rockwool or Coco. Never with gro rocks and never with Aeroponics.

Maybe its the Botanicare brand coco? I had mothers in Bcuzz a couple years ago but dont remember this being an issue back then. Same water supply.

I currently have mothers in hydroton rocks and have zero PH issues. Its just the coco trays.

Thanks for the input Emerald C.
.

 

[Grizz]

what brand of coco are you using ?

 

[Darth Fader]

" Should I soak my coco in PH adjusted solution PRIOR to use in order to stabilize it?"
That's what I'd do. But I'm running DTW and only measure ph going in.

 

[phat15]

Let me get this straight, You have a res that floods a table with 48 coco plants?

You have a huge number of plants, and a recirculating system which is known for enslaving users trying to adjust EC/Ph. To me that is asking for PH issues?

Time to troubleshoot....
1. Up Res size
2. Lower Plant #'s
3. Drop the Ebb&Floe and go Top Drip
4. Change to Drip To Waste

 

[Snow Crash]

Recirculating systems and coco don't mesh well when it comes to pH.

The pH of my runoff is regularly around 6.4 to 6.5 when running 5.8. This is just one of those things about coco that I've never worried about and never had any form of problem with. Just dial your pH in somewhere around 5.5 to 6.0 and the coco takes care of the buffer. Continually adding more phosphoric or nitric acid to your system is skewing your ratios as well as building up in the media.

I have heard of people that will mix a large reservoir at a specific pH and keep the rez pH maintained. The recirculating system is never dialed in. Every day you just add more solution from the larger reservoir to the recirculating system. At the end of the week you run clean water through the system one time, mix up new nutrients, and refill the recirculating system.

It's a way of kind of averaging everything out. Doing so puts a lot of faith in the media and the system to just "figure it out." Don't underestimate the pH buffering capabilities of the coco.

Moving to a drain to waste system I think you'll find pH problems to be completely a thing of the past. Consider using your current E/F system as a drip top feed and the reservoir to manage a reasonable amount of runoff.

Good luck.

 

[PoopyTeaBags]

this may not be the advice you want to here but youd have alot less issues on a drip to waste system. coco can be finicky. drip to waste and youll have 0 ph issues.


welcome back as well...

 

[forty]

you're on the small end as far as rez size goes. set the ph lower, let it drift up, change out the rez often. if your ec is on the money, the ph will stabilize some over time...... let er rip.

 

[krunchbubble]

i don't see anything wrong except using heads formula and flood and draining so many times and your not flooding high enough....

coco works very well in a recirculation system, its what i used and had some of the highest yields on this website in coco....

my ph fluctuated just like yours and the plants loved it, made sure they got the full range of available nutrients, again some of the highest yields on here....

i currently use a 50 gallon for 3 3 X 6 trays, so YOU HAVE PLENTY of water.....

i would do a drip or hand water once or twice a day personally....

my personal opinion, flower those bitches and just adjust the ph like you have been doing.....

 

[Pirate]

Good to be back Poopyteabags !! Good to see you too. I been gone for almost a year and I just couldn't take it anymore. Withdrawls !!

Thank you everyone for the help. All good things to consider. I cannot however do a drain to waste. Far to much waste of money, nutes and water for me to handle. I will eventually be running far more plants on multiple tables and there will be a shitload of water to throw overboard.

Phat215,
I have run 2 times that many plants in the same table. 48 isn't to many. Just right for my SOG. But I appreciate ya lookin out for me.

I am most intrigued by your post Krunch:

i don't see anything wrong except using heads formula and flood and draining so many times and your not flooding high enough....

my ph fluctuated just like yours and the plants loved it, made sure they got the full range of available nutrients, again some of the highest yields on here.....

Please explain:
You saying not to use the 6/9 formula?...Should I go with my old trusty Lucas Formula? 8/16? or is there another suggestion?

I already knocked my watering times down to 2 times with lights on. No feeding when lights off.

What do ya mean by "not watering high enough" ? Are you saying I should water from the top once a day or just flood my pots as high as possible?

Thanks again guys !!
.

 

[phat15]

Some Coco has a built-in Ph buffer, which is pretty danmn stubborn. So good luck with that.

How Can you say that you are going to waste too much nutes? thats crazy talk! in a properly tuned drip to waste system, you will use the same amount of nutrients, if not less then any other system. You are already being cheap tryin to rock GH, you cant be cheap on all ends.

 

[Snow Crash]

I was going to say the same thing as phat15. Complaining about the cost of runoff is silly.

Suppose you spent, what, like $80 on all of your nutrients. Now let us suppose you run to waste 25% of those nutrients. Gasp! $20 down the drain. Wait... Here's 500 grams of quality cannabis to smoke... and I didn't have to wrestle my pH the entire time... Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.

That's where I'm coming from on this, it's more about the cost of "peace of mind." I've spent $20 in other places that could best be described as a less efficient usage of my money. Damn Boobies...

If you want something cheap go pick up a couple 5lbs bags of Jack's Professional Calcium Nitrate and Hydroponic mix. Use those in a 2:3 ratio and you're set for a looong time for under $50. Then you can run to waste as much as you please. I mean, if you're running Atami Bloombastic, or the Yellow Bottle lineup, or some Bud Factor X and Overdrive... I can see the desire to keep runoff to a minimum. But the stuff you're running is like $0.01 per gallon buddy. I sure hope that a little runoff at that price isn't going to keep you from paying the cable bill on time...

I still think topping off the recirculating reservoir from a secondary rez is the best idea if you want to keep doing what you're doing. Krunches methods perplex me... What works in one person's grow doesn't always work in another's.

 

[sm0k4]

I use Botanicare and I notice my runoff gets to be pretty high after a while also. This is with drain to waste as well. Usually more EC gets the pH more stable. I now run 1.8 EC with my plants now and they seem to be doing much better. Not to say you should, but coco has a learning curve and it can be a PITA to get it figured out, I struggled for a while. You can always mix up your nutes at 5.4 and let it drift, then swap out when it gets over 6.5 like suggested. But more EC will help keep the pH stable longer.

Water through the pots also, this will flush out salts. Bottom feeding can lead to build ups.

 

[Pirate]

Now that's what I remember so well about ICMAG....LOL

Its not really so much about being a cheapskate fellors. Its about conservation, efficiency and simplicity. If I have to have a thousand feet of drip tube running around and fine tune the drip on 500+ individual plants then maybe I am on the wrong track here.

But thanks fur the input.
.

 

[BlindDate]

6.4 or 6.5 Ph is just fine for coco. Leave it alone.

 

[OCkushKing]

6.4 or 6.5 Ph is just fine for coco. Leave it alone.

WHAT???????
I would have to disagree!! sorry but thats just not good info! I ALWAYS ph at 5.5, granted i DTW. By the time i water again the PH in my coco raises up to 5.8 5.9ish
So my plants are always eating in the 5.5 - 5.9 range! NEVER HIgher!! EVER!~!

 

[Bush Dr]

6.5/6.4 Is too high for coco, unless the nutes say otherwise (Plant Magic 6.2) I always use 5.8/5.9

If you're aerating with an air stone the pH will rise over a few hours anyway

 

[phat15]

Wow, 6.5 is crazy high for coco, its not even close to being in range.

Second of all, how can you complain about managing a drip to waste system? Ive ran both and its just as simple as flooding.
you already have the res,pump and the table with containers.

Why are you are asking for help, but dont want to budge on anything?
Not budging on cost is one thing, work is another, you cant skimp out on both and still want an efficient and easy to handle system.
Coco rewards consistency .

 

[forty]

6.4 or 6.5 Ph is just fine for coco. Leave it alone.

agree

Its not really so much about being a cheapskate fellors. Its about conservation, efficiency and simplicity.

flood and drain is the right choice then. as mentioned, coco has a learning curve and you can sort out your set up to work just fine. its just going to take some time making adjustments to get it where you want it.

to recommend ditching the f&d and set up a drip dtw so you don't have to worry about ph drift is suggesting it's easier to set up a whole new system than it is to spend a little time dialing what you have.. besides, a drip is going to take time to dialed as well.

set your ph lower let it drift up, set the ph of your top offs lower as well.

fresh coco out of the bag has a runoff around 6.5. with fresh coco, pot up your plants and water them all by hand through the top and "rinse" the coco for the first few waterings, chuck that water and fill the rez fresh.

flood the tray deep... get the water level as high up the sides of the pots as you can. with a shallow flood most of the root zone will only "wick" moisture and can lead to salt buildup but in this case ph would drop over time, not rise. 50 gallons is on the small side, a larger rez will last longer between top offs and will also buffer ph swings over time, less frequent adjustments.

get a mag drive pump with enough hose attached to reach all the plants from the rez, drop it in the rez and hand water all the plants through the top a couple times a week to prevent build up.

just work on it, takes a little time but that's how you learn.