'Living' soil on a low budget

[crunkyeah]

Basically, I've spent hours upon hours reading beginners threads to organics and I'm still stumped on a few basic(seemingly) things.

Ok so there are different ways to go organic, you have teas, composts, organic nutrients, mulch, bokashi, and the list goes on.

I understand that the organic teas seem to be the best way to get those living organisms into your soil. The problem for me is that every system I've seen online for making your own AACT seems to be +5 gallons. For me that is entirely WAY too much for my needs. I would be in the ballpark around 2-3 gallons for all of my ladies. I plan on having 6 going perpetual and a mother(maybe 2), so I won't need that much tea.

I did see the thread heady blunts posted about his brewer. The only thing that concerns me is the recipe. When ordering the materials, does one have to store them to keep them fresh?

What about using other beneficial bacteria such as mycorrhizae or azos? Those both look like promising bacteria to me but I would have no clue about how much to use/put in the brewer.

Now for the composting part. I'm going to be blunt and say I have no damn clue how to successfully compost. This method does seem more intriguing to me as I can't stand the vibrational hum of an air pump. From the sounds of it, just mix a bunch of crap worms eat into a large bin with some sterile dirt and worms. Then you let them go to town and viola, fresh healthy organic soil. Right?



Now for the main question: Is it more COST EFFECTIVE throughout the entire plant cycle to compost or to brew teas? I do have some air pumps I could use for a brewer, but eventually they would need to be upgraded. I have about 75 US$ to invest in a system for my plants nutritional needs both in veg and in flower so that I may start my flowering operation. A large compost bin for me wouldn't be all that hard; I also have a bucket and could rig up something for a brewer. In the end, which materials will be cheaper for which system and how long could I expect the materials to last?

P.S. I might also mention that the strain I'm using can handle high levels of nutrients with no problems, and also flowers for 14-15 weeks. The containers will be 3 gallon buckets(hoping that's enough for a sativa clone). I also want to add that the area I live in has a mostly sandy soil(live next to a river). I've thought about bringing some of that dirt indoors but I do worry that I will have a pest problem that way.

 

[redneck shogun]

You don't have to brew teas or add mycos so I would save that for when you have more money. You would be surprised how well you can do without them. It sounds like you have some studying to do if you wish to make your own compost or vermicompost so I would recommend your 75$ goes to buying what you need to make LC's mix and use store bought worm castings for now. That should get you through to the end, if not then top dress or use a fish hydrolysate.

 

[pinecone]

I understand that the organic teas seem to be the best way to get those living organisms into your soil. The problem for me is that every system I've seen online for making your own AACT seems to be +5 gallons. For me that is entirely WAY too much for my needs. I would be in the ballpark around 2-3 gallons for all of my ladies.

If you just want to brew a couple of gallons a airstone attached to a reasonable strong aquarium pump in a 5-gallon bucket (or small tote) should be sufficient. I brew 1-gallon at a time this way.

Now for the composting part. I'm going to be blunt and say I have no damn clue how to successfully compost. This method does seem more intriguing to me as I can't stand the vibrational hum of an air pump. From the sounds of it, just mix a bunch of crap worms eat into a large bin with some sterile dirt and worms. Then you let them go to town and viola, fresh healthy organic soil. Right?

There is a ton of info on composting here and elsewhere. It isn't clear whether what you are referring to use composting or vermicomposting. Basically there are three types of composting. There is slow composting (organic matter left in a pile to slowly decompose), thermal or quick composting (it gets hot and there are no worms), and vermicomposting (where you use worms).

I should also add that there is isn't necessary to apply teas daily or even weekly so you don't need to have pumps humming all the time.

Now for the main question: Is it more COST EFFECTIVE throughout the entire plant cycle to compost or to brew teas? I do have some air pumps I could use for a brewer, but eventually they would need to be upgraded. I have about 75 US$ to invest in a system for my plants nutritional needs both in veg and in flower so that I may start my flowering operation. A large compost bin for me wouldn't be all that hard; I also have a bucket and could rig up something for a brewer. In the end, which materials will be cheaper for which system and how long could I expect the materials to last?

Use the air pumps you have now. For small batches they are likely sufficient. Set up a worm bin or compost pile for the future. In the meantime buy a bag of worm castings. You will also need some fertilizers. With $75 to spend I would by the castings (<$20), a small bag of kelp meal (<$20), a quart bottle of fish hydrolystate ($10), a small bag of high P bat guano ($10), and a bottle of blackstrap molasses ($3). Some of these things (the kelp in particular) you are much better off buying in bulk, but that would put you over budget. Anyway, assuming you have your soil mixed or bought already the above would last several cycles in a small grow.

Pine

 

[h.h.]

Compost is free.
Outside soil may be fine. put in a pot, it may have drainage problems then again maybe not. You'll have to judge. The other question is does it hold nutrients. Sand doesn't. It needs organic material. It won't hold water or air either unless it has a lot of fines in which case it may stay mucky, even less air. It is also heavy to move. Mixing in some good composted material might do the trick.
You don't need a high volume pomp to make teas. Use a smaller container. Find some unkept property and dig into the leaf pile a bit. If you have a healthy bird population, collect their shit. I provide vegetation for the birds and they reward me with a shit covered wall.
Don't worry about pests.

 

[mad librettist]

'Living' soil on a low budget

skip the airstone.

you only need about half gallon brews.

regular aquarium pump, sone tubing, and some stainless steel nuts to weigh down the air line.

 

[heady blunts]

yea i'd go with pinecone's shopping list. you can use your air pump like others have said. use a gallon milk jug or something smaller like that. sound like you have a smaller scale grow, but if you need to, you can dilute the finished tea to stretch it (just make sure you use de-chlorinated water and apply it immediately).

you should also check out the fermented plant extracts and/or the nettle tea thread. application is borderline advanced gardening, but they cost nothing to make and it's almost impossible to do incorrectly.

if you have even a little space, setting up a worm bin is one of the best things you can do for your plants and your wallet. you can collect composting worms for free by leaving a piece of wet cardboard on the (chemical free) lawn or ground overnight. go back in the early morning and there should be composting worms munching on the underside. also fishing stores sell them for really cheap as bait.

mycorrhizae are fungi. a good tool, but it only needs to be applied to the root zone during transplant. a little goes a long way.

imo the most cost effective way to garden is to start with great soil. i don't know if 3 gallons will get your long flowering, heavy feeders through to harvest, but in larger containers LC's mix can take plants all the way through with only water. no worries tho (i use #3 smart pots). if you're midway through flower and your plants look hungry, you can simply top dress the same amendments and they will cycle back through your pot and be made available to your plants. it's so easy!

i like your attitude. keep us updated on your garden's progress!

 

[mad librettist]

here Iĺl make it easy for ya:

1/2 gallon dechlorinated/distilled/RO/rain/etc... water

3TBS compost/EWC
3 tsp molasses (make 3rd tsp a bit small)
1/4 tsp fish hydrolysate

In the summer, brew no longer than 20 hours. Feel free to stir by hand on top of the bubbles. To make a foliar application, pour it through a paint strainer.

I dilute in a half gallon of water.

 

[jaykush]

step one, make a wormbin. and start composting. use that as the base in your soil mix. all you will have to do is water with the occasional top dressing. you can even top dress with dried powdered weeds from outside as your fert.

you can grow lbs for pennies, you just have to think a little.

 

[crunkyeah]

Wow guys, I was expecting maybe 1 or 2 replies but I'm just blown away by how much useful info you all have for me! Much

Well I guess I should start by saying the soil I am using now has literally no nutrient content. If it does then it's not much. It's barely pulling my seedlings through getting topped once. They're all starting to rebound and grow well but the process would have taken days instead of weeks haha. The soil was purchased from the depot and had a big 100% ORGANIC sign deal on the bag. As to what's actually in it, I didn't really look. I do know that if it's struggling to keep my seedlings going, flower isn't gonna work.

The half gallon idea should do great, dilute it 50/50 right? So it should completely fill a milk jug?

I'll put a big bag of EWC, kelp meal, high P bat guano, blackstrap molasses, and that fish crap on the list.

Now for my curiousity, do you guys feed with the teas every other watering? I know some of you mentioned the plants can go with just plain water for a long time, but I do have worries that I'll need to feed more often(smaller pot, nutrient hungry plants, etc). I know my soil isn't that great so will adding the tea suddenly make it 'great'?

Oh before I forget, I don't think anyone answered if you need to keep the bags of stuff, guano, kelp meal, etc in the fridge or something to keep it fresh? If not I have a nice cool dark place that I could store everything in until I need to use it.


Thanks everyone!
ICMag ROCKS!

 

[Scrappy4]

you can grow lbs for pennies, you just have to think a little.

But it hurts! Just kidding, but JayKush's point is valid.

i just wanted to point out, planning and timing is a large component to a successful grow. As an example you can't shit compost, well maybe you can, but most compost heaps take time to work, soil needs time to "cook" Taking clones should be timed to have girls ready when their moms are cut. Even JayKush's concoctions take some time. You can graph it out on paper or computer or do it in your noggin, but you do need to plan. I read all the time people wanting to start seeds, but don't have soil yet, and don't want to wait.

In my situation, I built a small box to grow in that is in my unheated uninsulated garage. I had a lot of smart people tell me it would not work, but through reading and a lot of thought and planning it does pretty well and i can support my ganga habit without even growing 12 months a year, I take late summer early fall off to enjoy non ganga oriented life. It took me months to plan it all out and a week or so to build, then a week of testing before adding plants. As it turns out some unforeseen things did pop up, but very few that were not thought of before hand.

I think your time is best invested with continuing your reading, and if your currently in a grow, for sure, ask questions along the way, but don't stop reading........scrappy

 

[Scrappy4]

crunkyeah
There are teas and there are teas. Most of the teas we talk about here are compost/ewc molasses, water, and maybe some microbe rich feed. These will introduce microbes to your grow, reinforcements if you will.

Teas with high nutrient values, are not what I consider to be compost tea, or microbe friendly tea. They are nutrient tea, and could actually harm microbes in it, but do benefit your plants in a manner of adding any nutrients would.

Now if you amend your soil before you grow in it, you may only need microbe teas, if on the other hand you have not amended your soil to handle a grow throughout a cycle then you may want to do some nutrient teas. And then of course is all the variations. I see all the time folks adding guano to a tea, and thinking it is microbe tea, but in fact it only has value as a nutrient. Can you feel me here? Two different types of teas, for two different applications...........scrappy

 

[crunkyeah]

Interesting spin on it Scrappy4. I won't stop reading trust me! I scavenge the forums day in and day out in order to perfect this art we call growing. No worries there

I totally hear ya on the nutrient tea vs microbe tea. What if I went with the nutrient tea to get them going and then later on introduce the microbes? Sounds doable to me, but what do I know?

If you wouldn't mind, could you please elaborate more on the difference between the two? Especially the contents and applications. If possible I'd like to get on the microbe train as the thought of living soil for my living plants seems too good to be true!

 

[mad librettist]

the recipe I gave you is for aerated compost tea.

Use it before you use anything else.

Use it when something is wrong - it's like hitting "reset".

Feed your soil.

 

[Scrappy4]

Well to add microbes to your soil it is assumed you have some in the soil to begin with. You get them through having ewc and or compost in your soil for the most part, although your mix should have some already in it. To increase your microbe numbers you grow microbes with microbe friendly things in microbe tea. I make 4 basic teas. Since i amend my soil I don't need much nutrients. I use water, molasses, EWC/compost, for a simple tea, then will alternate adding fish hydroslate, kelp meal, alfalfa. These kind of blur the line of microbe/nutirent, but I still consider them microbe tea, and it seems to work well. One super simple "tea" is just alfalfa and water, let it sit over night strain and spray. Simple and effective. I guess it would be both nutrient and microbe friendly, as there are microbes in the alfalfa, along with growth stimulants.

If you want a nutrient tea you could bubble dry nutrients for a tea, or something like earth juice liquid nutrients, or guano, ect. But really I'm not sure if a guano tea is better than a guano top dress, or simply mix guano in water and pour it on. I will defer to those who make nutient teas for better information.....scrappy

 

[sso]

whats the reasoning behind the airpump in the teas?


cause, if its just to move the water or aerate it (and if you dont like that sound)

you could just get an aquarium filter, a small one and remove the actual filter. (the swamp inside)

that would move the water around alot more and areate it also more efficiently. and its much more quiet.

then use a wide container to aerate the water more efficiently.

 

[crunkyeah]

So no kelp meal or guanos?

The 'reset' button may come in handy from time to time

And for the record the molasses is unsulphered blackstrap molasses correct? Wanna make sure I'm buying the right thing. So many for cooking and others seem marketed to growers.

I think for now I'm just going to go with the basic recipe you listed mad librettist, the EWC, molasses, and fish stuff.

If they need more later on that'll be ok I just need to get something going so when I do start taking clones to put in my system then I'll be able to without major deficiencies.

 

[mad librettist]

'Living' soil on a low budget

you can add a teeny bit of kelp meal or other stuff for diversity.

I'll post proportions when I get home.

 

[Manitoid]

Could you tell me whether this is living soil intended for indoor, or outdoor.

I have things i can say with experience about the latter.

 

[Scrappy4]

whats the reasoning behind the airpump in the teas?


cause, if its just to move the water or aerate it (and if you dont like that sound)

you could just get an aquarium filter, a small one and remove the actual filter. (the swamp inside)

that would move the water around alot more and areate it also more efficiently. and its much more quiet.

then use a wide container to aerate the water more efficiently.

The air pump provides O2, and is a necessary ingredient for microbe growth. Without O your tea could become anaerobic. Anaerobic teas encourage pathogens (bad ju ju) in your tea. Aerobic teas encourage good microbes to grow. You can tell when a tea goes bad by the smell. Good teas have an earthy smell, like a woods after a spring rain, bad teas smell like sewer, a shitty stank.

Microbeman has a cool page in his sig that can explain in much greater detail than I could, take the time to check it out, he covers tea, compost tea brewers, what size air pump and so on....scrappy

 

[mostnonymouse]

depending on what hydrolysate you get, it could contain kelp as well. Neptunes harvest I believe has products with and without kelp.