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400W Vert in a Cab. Are you High?

Sgt.Stedenko

Crotchety Cabaholic
Veteran
Howdy All, :wave:

I've been busy getting high and thinking about going a bit bigger in scale than my Closet Maid cab. Being a cheapskate, I don't want to spend any more than I have to, and since I already have a Mills Pride C13 wardrobe and a 400w HPS and CMH setup, I said what the fuck. Lets see what kind of mayhem we can create in a cab with dimensions of 30" wide, 20" deep and 72" tall. I like to think of this as a return on investment.

So you say a 400 is way too much light for only 4.2 square feet. That's approaching 100 watts/sf, knuckehead. I say you're absoluely freaking right. But remember, I'm bored and high. Also, I'm going to use a tubular scrog that gives me 11.8 sf of area, so I'm closer to 34 w/sf.

In order to maximize results, or maybe fry some bitches, I'm running the light vertically. Our friend over in the vert forums are killing it and I want to be as cool as they are. :comfort:

So in this undersized, over illuminated cab, I plan on running 4 gals from clone in 3 gallon square pots. Probably going back to soil (maybe coco) for this try, since I dont want to fuck with hydro in a sauna. I might break the bank and buy some fancy blumats to make daily maintenance easier.

In order to keep the gals from turning into crispy critters, I've put the bulb in a Bake-a-round tube and am running a dual stage system for cooling and scrubing. I tried the 400 bare. Not gonna happed when your walls are 9" from the bulb. The light is cooled by a 120mm PC fan blowing through 4" duct. Cool air enters from the bottom and is pulled up across the hot as fuck bulb before exiting out the back. Currently, I have a 60 cfm PC fan doing the work of cooling the light. That shit aint gonna cut it. Time to step up to a Delta. I'm considering the 12v, 0.9A beast that moves 150 cfm and screams at 55 dB.

Scrubbing and more cooling is done with a Stanley blower connected to a DIY 6" scrubber. The scrubbed air is blown up into the floor joists and over to my attic. It's probably louder than 55 dB, so the Delta wont make much difference.

The cab is a closet/storage room in my garage. Luckily, the closet has a forced air duct inside, so I can keep the closet close to 75F even on days when it's 90+ in the garage.

So I finally got this thing up and running today for some temp testing. So far, I can keep the cab running 10F over ambient, or about 85F. I do have some hot spots on the back wall and doors closer to 90F, which worries me. I'm going to try a 30" tall, 18" diameter v-scrog to keep the green away from the molten lava inside that glass tube. Anything closer means certain death. Anything larger wont fit. I'm walking a very fine line here.

I've considered buying a 40"x40" tent to do this, which would be much easier, but like I said, I'm cheap. Sure I can find one on ebay for $90, but my father always said quality is your best value, and the $250 entry price for a quality tent is a no go atm. I'm also considering buying a 250W HPS ballast kit and replacing the 400 with the lower wattage, but that seems kinda pussy-like. Maybe stacked 150's for a shot of double vagina? The heat from the light is killing me right now. I had the same setup running horizontal and temps were only 2 over ambient except up at the bulb, which was closer to 85. The closer proximity of the bulb to the plant going vert in this cab is my biggest probelm.

Total cost to get this thing up and running to date is $16 for some shiny new duct and $16 for the honeywell fan on the floor. Everything else is recycled from shit laying around getting dusty. I can get the Delta fan and the 250w Advance ballast kit off of ebay for another $42. Since my current CMH bulb is for horizontal, I either need to get a 400 vert or a 250 vert for another $52. That includes a free hps bulb which i'll use for flowering.

More testing, tweaking and getting high are in order here before I get this thing fired up on a regular basis. Wish me luck. :tiphat:

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messn'n'gommin'

ember
Veteran
Good luck!

I've been wanting to go vertical, but worried about interior space. The area I'm using in my closet isn't much bigger than your C13 and this gives me reason to reconsider.

Thanks for going the extra mile!
 
G

guest 77721

Awesome cab build!!!
She's gonna pump out some serious buddage!
 

Sgt.Stedenko

Crotchety Cabaholic
Veteran
Messin,
Nice to see you around these parts. How things down in Big Blue territory? It'll probably be a while before this thing is populated with little ladies, so stick around.

Glaus,
That's my reason for breaking the 400 out of mothballs. Production baby.

Red,
I expected better from you. j/k
I seriously need to reconsider the ventilation as I've got it all backwards. I need the high cfm fan on the light and something in the 50 cfm range for scrubbing. I'm considering a CAN 2600 with a S&P TD100x on low for that. The cab is about 25 cf, the 2600 lists a pressure drop of 0.2" wg, and the 100X moves about 50 cfm at 0.2" wg. Voila. Another 100x on high would be tits for the cool tube. I need to duct the air from the cool tube out of the room instead of just dumping it back as heat. With those changes, I think this is doable.

Tricky,
I hope so. Thanks

Heady,
I'll be watching what you're doing with your vert cab. Looks like a champ.

I've got some inspiration for a modular, stackable v-scrog from a couple of bong hits earlier this evening. Stay tuned.

Just saw this story. Looks like I'm ditching the coco and blumats for some MG FTW.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...32.html?mod=WSJ_hp_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsThird
I fucking hate the Scotts Company.
 

messn'n'gommin'

ember
Veteran
Messin,
Nice to see you around these parts. How things down in Big Blue territory? It'll probably be a while before this thing is populated with little ladies, so stick around.

Thanks! Yeah, I usually hang out in the GD&E forum as I'm more mechanically inclined and am fascinated by all the logistics involved. Until I landed at IC, I had never grown anything but older in 50 some odd years. So, mostly, I work on my growing skills (or rather my lack of!) by lurking and messin' and gommin' (lol...as my mother used to say about her less than tidy children) in my little closet. TBH...I'm more intimidated by the skills of micro growers than those who grow big...or many (indoor or out)! So yeah, I'll be following as best I can!

Can't wait for UK football season to start where a 7-4 record is cause for celebration! I like the BB program, but a Final Four appearance is required to keep the head coaching job and attracting future pro prospects. It's football where mostly tier 1,2, and 3 players, give their hearts to the game and over-achieve (lol...on occasion)!

Peace!
 
Z

zen_trikester

Hey Sarge! That is one very clean looking build so far! I agree with the comments about vert setups. I would love to do it myself. If you can use all sides of the bulb, you are utilizing far more than any horizontally placed bulb. That part is simple logic! I will be very interested in how this works out for you.

As for your cooling issue. You should run the fan on the cooltubes intake. I know this goes against conventional fan design but hear me out. Hot air moves faster than cool air, so by pushing cool your are reducing resistance over pulling cool. In addition you won't melt your fan, and in addition to that it is better for smell security. If you cause a negative pressure in your tube you will draw in stinky air, but if you cause positive pressure your worst case scenario is pushing a little extra outside air into your grow which is nbd. This is opposite, as I'm sure you know, for the principals of venting the cab through a filter.
 

yesum

Well-known member
ICMag Donor
Veteran
With some more powerful fans, I think you can achieve the temps you want. This will be a real maxing of space for yield grow.
 

one Q

Quality
Veteran
look at you! going from small hps + cfls to BAM Vert 400! That shit looks slick. Throw some shelves on the sides so that you can put small plants closer to the lights... Get the adjustable ones from the closet section at H.Dpot.

Ill be keeping an eye on this thread ...
 

hazydreams

Active member
I love this project.

Im thinking of doing something very similar for my mom cab.

Just a thought fwiw, you could install a tray to put the pots in, then top feed with a small external res/pump/drippers. Run it Drain to waste with a timer and some coco, Hydro without the whole hydro problems. i doubt that would cost more then say a 50 spot if you have a pump laying around.

this set up is exactly what im working out with my mom cab.

What are the temps like with the light on?

Edit: sorry i missed the part where you said 75* with the light on.
 

007.

Member
Looking so fresh and so clean thus far! Are you vegging elsewhere, or are you going to raise those buckets so the plants can get light while they're all short? It seems like you're going to have some wasted feet at the bottom of the cab that don't get light if you don't decide to rock double 150's stacked. Although the extra size of the plants will mean more root mass, which is never a bad thing.
 
G

guest 77721

Hey Sarge,

I was sorta dazzled by the new build and didn't analyze it. You're not in trouble if the cab is running +10 F above ambient.

A standard cooltube design runs the exhaust temps between 20 and 30 degrees and that would be somewhere between 63 and 42 CFM. My thinking is that the lightbulb is blocking the airflow through the tube because they are pretty close in size. If you take your exhaust temps then we can figure out the effective airflow.

If you can get all the heat removed by the cooltube then the growbox/scrubber airflow can be peanuts. I recommend 1-5 minutes between airchanges. The most airflow you should need is 25 CFM provided the cooltube is doing it's part.

I'm wondering if you can find a hurricane glass with a big bulge or a larger tube?
 

pinecone

Sativa Tamer
Veteran
Being a cheapskate, I don't want to spend any more than I have to, and since I already have a Mills Pride C13 wardrobe and a 400w HPS and CMH setup, I said what the fuck. Lets see what kind of mayhem we can create in a cab with dimensions of 30" wide, 20" deep and 72" tall. I like to think of this as a return on investment.

I have a C13, and that sir is no C13. The C13 is a bit narrower (28.5"), a bit deeper, (24"), and a bit shorter (64" from cab floor to cab ceiling) than your cab. I bumped my C13 out a bit front to back so its now 24.5" deep and 28.5" wide for footprint of approximately 4.85ft^2.

I like the idea trying to run vertical in your type of space and am very curious to see how it turns out. I've always felt that the yield limiting factor my my 400w C13 is the amount of footprint available for canopy. Vertical is one way to get this footprint up. I'll be watching.

Good Luck!

Pine
 

Sgt.Stedenko

Crotchety Cabaholic
Veteran
Not yet fellas,

I'm going to start some seeds in the next week or two and pull some clones from the best lady for this cab.
 

petemoss

Active member
Hi Sarge!
Your cab looks good! I have a similar cab and use a Can 2600 and T&D fan to cool my 400 watt HPS and ventilate the cab. I think you could get by with just the single T&D fan and would suggest you place the fan between the Can filter and the bottom of the cooltube. The fan would pull air through the filter and push the filtered air through the cooltube and then out of the closet. Forget about using axial fans because they don't have the power to move air through ducting. As redgreenry said, the narrow cooltube may be a bottleneck for airflow around your bulb, but then again, maybe not. Hook it up and try it! My friend has a cab we are going to convert to vertical lighting by turning the cooltube around. Same filter and fan. If the bake-around tube proves too narrow, I have a 6" cooltube we can use. Good luck!

BTW If you can remote the ballast outside the cab or even outside the closet it will help keep the temps down.
 
G

guest 77721

Yo Petemoss,

It's super to see your still active. I'm sure you can show us poor microgrowers a few tricks!

Red
 

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