Question re: PM & its contagiousness

[silver hawaiian]

A couple of my clones have come from moms who had PM. The moms and the clones have all since been treated (Mildew Cure 1.5 oz/gal, and also Organicide 1 oz/gal).

Separately, I have 4 plants in the tent flowering right now - all of those seem to be in good shape.

I'm thinking about throwing one of the PM'd clones (which has since been treated) in to flower, a-la sea-of-green-stylee.

What I'm wondering is the danger of "contamination" to the other [unaffected] flowering gals, from the PM-but-treated-and-seeming-healthy clone.

Anyone?

 

[MIway]

Neither of the two products you listed will get inside the plant to kill off what... I personally believe... is inside the plant itself, waiting for the perfect opportunity to stretch out their reproductive hyphae.


You'd need a systemic that has curative properties... Heritage, Bayleton, Eagle 20, etc. And that, as you know, requires some precautions with use.

I do this... kinda nec to bring in any other peoples genetics. Be safe bro.

 

[mad librettist]

wtf is with all the advice to use nasty poisons in the organic soil forum?


in any case, anything I have ever read about PM indicates it is not systemic.

 

[silver hawaiian]

Hmm. Looks like it's off to do more reading, .. I'd like to know more about these products.. Namely, I'm wondering if I can just throw the potentially-still-infected clone in the tent, and then treat throughout flower..

Off to the library (of sorts)!

Thanks MI!

 

[silver hawaiian]

wtf is with all the advice to use nasty poisons in the organic soil forum?


in any case, anything I have ever read about PM indicates it is not systemic.

Mad Librettist

What's your solution? I'm definitely open to suggestions here.. I was hot to trot to get that clone in there before bedtime tonight (in an hour), and then I remembered it was a [former?] PM victim..

 

[mad librettist]

Mad Librettist

What's your solution? I'm definitely open to suggestions here.. I was hot to trot to get that clone in there before bedtime tonight (in an hour), and then I remembered it was a [former?] PM victim..

My advice - shoot a message to cc2u.


If I had my first ever PM infection on cannabis, CC2U would be the person to consult.

 

[MIway]

wtf is with all the advice to use nasty poisons in the organic soil forum?


in any case, anything I have ever read about PM indicates it is not systemic.

What is 'all the advice'? He gave a specific question, to which I answered.

And, it is with caution... the chems are dangerous & should be utilized in a controlled & safe manner... meaning chemical respirators, chemical gloves, full clothing and/or disposable chem suits, proper mixing & disposal, REI requirements & air circulation control.


What I can tell you is this... I have seen clean rooms... I run clean rooms. I have been around & involved with very, very dirty rooms too. And once PM is in a room... even if you apply the 'soft' approaches & seemingly get control of certain environmental conditions... it can still pop up... and certain strains seem more prone to reinfection than others.

With complete isolation & multiple MOA treatments... assuming the room conditions are controlled... I haven't witnessed a return of any molds. Short of this, it seems to keep an issue.

To me, this seems rather systemic... and I use that word to mean it is inside the plant itself... what we see on top of the leaves is but the reproductive organs.


If done responsibly & competently, there certainly is a time & place for chems... where it can be utilized safely. You can even evaporate off the leftover solutions & throw it to dry waste, so as to not release it into the public water works.

Please feel free to move this from the 'organic' sub's... that's cool.


EDIT~ I misused words here... systemic isn't correct, except when discussing the chems themselves... but yes, I agree... PM isn't flowing through the veins of the plant.

 

[mad librettist]

that shit has no place in an organic garden.

period.

you, and a bunch of folks on another thread are bringing up eagle 20 on a forum dedicated to not using anything like it.


If you use eagle 20 and you bill your shit as "organic". you are committing a grave fraud.

 

[MIway]

I'm not dude... but I get the frustration & anger you have... really, I get it.

In no way is this advocated for flowering plants... in fact that is kinda a point I would like to make, as there might be some misplaced hostility. If you can bring in a clean plant (through quarantine procedures), and you have a controlled environment, there will never be any need to retreat the plants... never, ever in flower.

The advocacy is to bring in new genetics, clean em up, bring em into a functioning & proper room. Not to continually put chems in rotation as a means to overcome poor environmental conditions.

Personally, I do not like to smoke other people's weed for the simple fact that I cannot account for how they treated & handled their rooms... be it mold infested, or chem ridden.

Wrong spot for the thread.

But I hope you can see that I'm not pushing for a mass crop dusting of the world, twice over. ;-)

 

[silver hawaiian]

I'm not dude... but I get the frustration & anger you have... really, I get it.

In no way is this advocated for flowering plants... in fact that is kinda a point I would like to make, as there might be some misplaced hostility. If you can bring in a clean plant (through quarantine procedures), and you have a controlled environment, there will never be any need to retreat the plants... never, ever in flower.

The advocacy is to bring in new genetics, clean em up, bring em into a functioning & proper room. Not to continually put chems in rotation as a means to overcome poor environmental conditions.

Personally, I do not like to smoke other people's weed for the simple fact that I cannot account for how they treated & handled their rooms... be it mold infested, or chem ridden.

Wrong spot for the thread.

But I hope you can see that I'm not pushing for a mass crop dusting of the world, twice over. ;-)

This! As soon as I clicked "Submit Reply," I went AH SHIT! INFIRMARY YOU DINGDONG!

Ahhhh, well. Whaddayagonnado.

 

[Mizzafishkilla]

I got rid of my single outbreak of PM with 3 doses over 12 days with skim milk and water....
I figure since the original poster posted on the organic board, even if mistakenly, he deserves an organic answer....

 

[GoneRooty]

Silver, check the other threads here about PM, there is some great ORGANIC solutions for PM. Lactobacillus is great for treating PM, and there are recipes for both the Lacto culture and the foliar spray to treat PM in the threads here.

As for Eagle20, it should NEVER be mentioned in an organic forum. It's main chemical causes endocrine disruptions, reproductive disorders and other problems. It's as bad as telling someone to use DDT as an organic solution to anything.

 

[silver hawaiian]

Silver, check the other threads here about PM, there is some great ORGANIC solutions for PM. Lactobacillus is great for treating PM, and there are recipes for both the Lacto culture and the foliar spray to treat PM in the threads here.

As for Eagle20, it should NEVER be mentioned in an organic forum. It's main chemical causes endocrine disruptions, reproductive disorders and other problems. It's as bad as telling someone to use DDT as an organic solution to anything.

Gone

Thanks for weighing in!

I'm fairly confident in the treatments I've applied thus far. The question I'm dying to know (read: would rather not learn the hard way) is, is there a considerable risk to the rest of my flowering broads by putting this [formerly?] affected plant in with 'em?

I'd hate to ruin what's been as much as 7 weeks of flowering (one at 7 weeks, 2 at 5 weeks, one at 3 weeks..) by putting that little bugger in there.

 

[Bullfrog44]

I would never chance such a thing. My flower room only see's healthy plants with rapid growth. Ideally of course.

 

[silver hawaiian]

I would never chance such a thing. My flower room only see's healthy plants with rapid growth. Ideally of course.

..of course!

 

[CC_2U]

What I'm wondering is the danger of "contamination" to the other [unaffected] flowering gals, from the PM-but-treated-and-seeming-healthy clone.

Anyone?

silver hawaiian

If one plant is showing signs of infection then your concerns about contamination are legitimate and unfortunately there isn't anything you can do about the fact that PM spores are in the air, on soils, etc.

In the part of the country that CC1 and I live in there are 2 types of growers - those who are constantly fighting PM and those who take the corrective actions necessary to prevent an outbreak or more accurately a manifestation of that infection. A plant may well have million of PM spores on the leaves and branches and if so there will be PM spores on the soil top as well.

The use of sh*t like Dow Chemical's Eagle 20EW is that it is not a 'use once and it's over' - even their own MSDS doesn't make that claim - quite the opposite. Repeated application is what is required to make it work as intended.

And just because it's not 'organic' does not mean that it's approved for crop production - it is not. It is only approved for ornamental plants and lawns (golf courses are a big user). If a farmer were to use this on a food crop and it was caught at a USDA inspection at the wholesale house they would be subject to prosecution and fines up to $25,000.00 - and that's just under federal laws. State laws might be even higher depending on where you live.

Here's what I do to prevent PM at all stages.........

1. Add 1.5 - 2 cup of neem seed meal to 1 c.f. of potting soil mix. The organic neem meal from NeemResource.com is about the best product that you can find. It's from India, it's organic and it costs about the same as the non-organic versions from China.

2. Use liquid silica in each and every watering. Dyna-Gro Pro-TeKt has a recommend application rate of 1/4 tsp. per gallon of water. I use 1 tsp. - again with each and every watering.

3. Spray 2x per week with a combination of neem oil, liquid silica and aloe vera extract (or yucca extract - surfactant)

4. Always assume that you have a PM breakout ready to happen within a couple of days. Just because you see no visual manifestation the spores are present and when the conditions are right it will hit and hit with impunity.

"It's far easier to a prevent powdery mildew breakout than it is to get rid of one"

If you find that milk works it's because of the lactic acid in milk. You can find that same acid in vinegar - regular ol' apple cider vinegar and you'll pick up a 5% Acetic acid component which is also effective for killing PM spores.

And then there's the process of using either potassium or sodium bicarbonate (GreenCure, KaliGreen, Milstop, et al.) which are effective in arresting the PM but you'll need to follow up with something to use on a regular basis.

And as usual - temp and humidity control are important. Particularly the heat factor.

HTH

CC

 

[Bullfrog44]

Great in depth answer CC. I will be putting this in my notes.

 

[LittleAmsterdam]

PM is NOT systemic and doesn't need any special chemical to kill it. PM is a fungus that lives on top of the leaves and spread via spores. Fungi is not systemic, but a host !

Mr. CC offers GREAT advice, but I'm going to add one suggestion

1. Change your environment conditions promoting and allowing PM to grow. If your environment is hot and dry enough you'll never have PM!

2. Spray daily with filtered water & a drop of PH UP.

I've never had to do anything more than the 2 suggestions listed

 

[MIway]

Seeing that I spewed chem's earlier... in an 'organic' forum... oooops, totally my bad for not being a little more cognizant of where I was posting... my apologies... ;-)

... but I'll piggy-back on LA's post re environmental conditions, as a means to redeem...


Under 48% RH in addition to 80F temps during the day + 84F temps during the night (no temp drops or RH spikes) === No mold... and w/o any chems whatsoever... including foliar sprays of sodium bicarb or oils or sulfur or anything else.

Some even report the Rain Forrest theory which allows for higher RH, along with elevated temps.

Just can say the first formulation works... from real life experience, over the coarse of years of practice. It's when you can't control the temps & RH that PM gets a foothold & spreads throughout a room.

And if you start with clean stock (however you try, with whichever product), and the environment is controlled (as advocated from the beginning), then the room can stay clean w/o ever using anything again. The Truth... with a capital T.



Just want to clarify before I get wads of guano thrown at my house! ;-))

 

[mad librettist]

Question re: PM & its contagiousness

Seeing that I spewed chem's earlier... in an 'organic' forum... oooops, totally my bad for not being a little more cognizant of where I was posting... my apologies... ;-)

... but I'll piggy-back on LA's post re environmental conditions, as a means to redeem...


Under 48% RH in addition to 80F temps during the day + 84F temps during the night (no temp drops or RH spikes) === No mold... and w/o any chems whatsoever... including foliar sprays of sodium bicarb or oils or sulfur or anything else.

Some even report the Rain Forrest theory which allows for higher RH, along with elevated temps.

Just can say the first formulation works... from real life experience, over the coarse of years of practice. It's when you can't control the temps & RH that PM gets a foothold & spreads throughout a room.

And if you start with clean stock (however you try, with whichever product), and the environment is controlled (as advocated from the beginning), then the room can stay clean w/o ever using anything again. The Truth... with a capital T.



Just want to clarify before I get wads of guano thrown at my house! ;-))

I think cc2u has done more than enough to convince me that environmental controls work for you and for me because we have an environment less conducive to PM in the first place.

I am careful about bragging that I have never seen PM on my indoor crops, and that I have always coexisted with it outside. it's obvious I have had more luck than skill.