Hortilux SuperHPS: Now for E-ballasts
- Thread starter spurr
- Start date
dont know about the eye product but from other manufactures low mercury = lower yields for example when philips released their green lu1000 yields went down 20 to 25% with no other changes other than the lamp
Interesting. I would be interested in buying a 1000w non-resigned lamp and the new redesigned lamp, and test their irradiance in the same reflector with same ballast (as well as the older version with coir/coil) using my quantum sensor to test irradiance ...
They are only selling 1,000w SuperHPS version now, but the 600w SuperHPS will be coming out soon; it's in development now.
Also, Horitlux is coming out with their own brand E-ballast! They are going to show it at the San Fran show in July; it will be for sale before the end of the year. And it will be "ETL Listed", just as good as "UL Listed" (AFAIK); I think this will be the first E-ballast ETL or UL Listed. AFAIK being "Listed" is better than the other designation, if a lamp is "Listed" one can look up the lamp test.
They are only selling 1,000w SuperHPS version now, but the 600w SuperHPS will be coming out soon; it's in development now.
Also, Horitlux is coming out with their own brand E-ballast! They are going to show it at the San Fran show in July; it will be for sale before the end of the year. And it will be "ETL Listed", just as good as "UL Listed" (AFAIK); I think this will be the first E-ballast ETL or UL Listed. AFAIK being "Listed" is better than the other designation, if a lamp is "Listed" one can look up the lamp test.
C
chefro420
Lumateks are UL listed now
I was told by someone in the business of E-ballast design/manufacture, that many E-ballasts do not provide 100% output, ex., an E-ballast won't drive a 1,000w lamp with 1,000w. I want to know how to test whether the E-ballast I use under-drives the lamp by default (Galaxy select-a-watt).
This topic of under-driving a lamp came up when I asked about over-driving a lamp (e.g., "super lumen" setting), and whether the effect on the SPD would be negative. I was told the effect is often positive, I assume that means greater output within PAR range vs non-super lumens mode. I was also told, some E-ballasts that under-drive a lamp by default will actually be driving a 1,000w with the correct power only in "super lumens" setting, the 'normal' 1,000w setting under-driving the lamp in terms of power.
This topic of under-driving a lamp came up when I asked about over-driving a lamp (e.g., "super lumen" setting), and whether the effect on the SPD would be negative. I was told the effect is often positive, I assume that means greater output within PAR range vs non-super lumens mode. I was also told, some E-ballasts that under-drive a lamp by default will actually be driving a 1,000w with the correct power only in "super lumens" setting, the 'normal' 1,000w setting under-driving the lamp in terms of power.
Good to know, thanks.
Did the SPD for each version of the lamp change?
If you notice between the two bulbs, it seems they just redesigned a wire lead that usually spirals down the filament... still on the old 600's... new 1k's took this wire wrap away. That's all that I could notice when looking at em.
And the Quantums are also UL listed.
UL, CSA, ETL... different testing facilities w different stamps. Only time I've seen it potentially matter is that in CO, some cities have reg's that require, quite specifically, UL listings... so by the books, they don't recognize CSA or ETL, which is just stupid. But just a heads up.
I have heard from both sides, Hortilux do fine in E-ballast and they tend to burn out in E-ballasts. I for one used a NextGen E-ballast with a 600w Horitlux SuperHPS and the ballast failed, not the lamp, after just two grows. I am not interested in newer technology HID lamps (re hertz) in terms of reliability when used with a E-ballast, per se.
I am more interested in using a newer technology lamp (ex., Digilux [what I am now using], Horitlux [new lamps], Ushio, etc.) that is optimized by the newer technology E-ballast in terms in reducing flicker. Reducing flicker will increase the total number of photons a plant gets per day, which often will increase daily net rate of photosynthesis. My interest also lies in photon quality and photon quantity, in terms of initial and maintenance values.
I see no problem using coir/coil, I only started this thread because I have not seen anyone post the new lamp info here before. (unless I missed it?)
Good info, thanks. I was totally off the mark on the UL and ETL stuff.
This is an important spec: First of all "increased reliability" and secondly 60-100 kHz.I just noticed Horitlux is selling a redesigned SuperHPS for E-ballasts; good stuff (finally, might I add)
Increased reliability under varying frequencies (60,000 - 100,000 Hz)
So it will withstand high frequency a lot better but you need a high frequency electronic ballast. Many ballasts (like the quantums we tested) run at just 35 kHz. Lumatek does 70 kHz and the Humboldt MicroMole does 80 kHz+. Try to get the right operating frequency from your supplier. The two problems low frequency HPS lamps have is bent wire frames and acoustic resonance in the arc tube.
In reality a lamp has a sweet spot in frequency response, a few kHz up and down can cause acoustic resonance. Therefore it is always best to develop a lamp for a ballast or a ballast for a lamp which hits the sweet spot.
The Gavita Pro ballasts run 400V Philips electronic lamps at over 100 kHz to prevent acoustic resonance. These have been around for about 5-7 years already for horticulture. So it was about time
This is an important spec: First of all "increased reliability" and secondly 60-100 kHz.spurr said:I just noticed Horitlux is selling a redesigned SuperHPS for E-ballasts; good stuff (finally, might I add)
Increased reliability under varying frequencies (60,000 - 100,000 Hz)
So it will withstand high frequency a lot better but you need a high frequency electronic ballast. Many ballasts (like the quantums we tested) run at just 35 kHz. Lumatek does 70 kHz and the Humboldt MicroMole does 80 kHz+.
Are you writing the Quantum ballast only runs at 35 kHz? What model did you test? Was it an older version or a newer one, ex., the "select-a-watt" model? That is good to know, and something I was not aware of; I thought it was > 50 kHz. That bums me out because I recently bought a new Galaxy select-a-watt. I hope it's not running at ~35 kHz, but higher than that. If it is only running at 35 kHz I am going to complain to Galaxy to see if I can return it; would you mind elaborating on how you tested the hertz (frequency)?
Do you know how to test power coming from ballast to lamp? Could it be as simple as putting a volt meter on the cord from ballast to lamp?
I have never heard of the Humboldt MicroMole, is it new? What is your opinion of it? I am going to check it soon, now. Thanks.
Of all the E-ballasts you tested, which ones are your top picks? (and why?) And can you please post the link to the ballast testing thread of yours, again? Thanks!
You did test the real-world frequency of ballasts to compare with manufacturer claims, correct?
^^ yea that, exactly. Normally one would design a ballast for a lamp, to power the lamp at it's frequency 'sweet spot'; that is what Horitlux is doing, I was told. They made the lamp(s), and an E-ballast for the lamp, to power it at the correct (optimal kHz) frequency.
Correct me if I am wrong, but an E-ballast provides a range kHz when it first starts because it doesn't know at what frequency the lamp runs optimally; nor if the lamp is an MH or HPS. So on start-up an E-ballast that is not designed for a specific lamp, or style of lamp, will not power the lamp optimally; at least not until the E-ballast can auto-adjust the frequency it is using to power the lamp, to (come close to) matching that of the lamp. But many E-ballasts do a poor job of 'reading' the lamp and then auto-adjusting to (come close to) match the lamp's ideal frequency. Granted, using a lamp designed to be powered by an E-ballast makes the process more effective, no?
The Gavita Pro ballasts run 400V Philips electronic lamps at over 100 kHz to prevent acoustic resonance. These have been around for about 5-7 years already for horticulture. So it was about time
Good to know. I can't recall, does Gavita offer the "Pro" E-ballasts for sale 'a la carte' that uses (or offers) U.S. plugs, can accept (power) plugs from various brands of reflectors, and runs on U.S. residential power (ex. 120 volt)?
Thanks.
the quantums we tested were the European model introduced about a year and a half ago and I have to correct myself, it was 40 kHz. Even the Lumatek lamp, which is quite a stable lamp, resonated on it, as did the Philips GreenPower. Link. I don't think Quantum publishes the frequency itself, it just explains it is stable.
From the Lumatek measurement you can see that it was 70kHz+ (lowering the output increases the frequency).
To test the power output, frequency, waveform, current etc. you will need a very expensive power analyzer like this one:
I know the Humboldt MicroMole, it has been on the market for a few months already. We have tested it, and it is a good ballast.
That ballast testing thread is here
It would be a very good idea for a lamp manufacturer to make it's own electronic ballast. Philips and Gavita have done that for years. Gavita developed its first adjustable electronic horticultural ballast back in 2003.
"between 60 and 100 kHz" is not really a sweet spot, that should be more narrow.
I don't think a frequency rise or fall during startup will have a lot of influence compared to the long periods of continuously 100% use. The soft start feature of most electronic ballasts will actually save your lamp.
About the Gavitas we already have a different discussion in a different thread but no, the pro fixture are just 240 and they are awaiting final UL/CSA approval for the complete series before they are released. They are professional fixtures. It doesn't make sense to power high wattage equipment with 120V. The pro 600 input range actually ranges from 240 - 277V.
For the same reason Gavita will launch its new lamps that are certified to work on different tested electronic ballasts and of course specifically their own. Gavita recommends the GE Lucalox PSL for their electronic ballasts and the Philips GreenPower 400V EL lamps (high frequency) for their professional ballasts which run at 100kHz+.
From the Lumatek measurement you can see that it was 70kHz+ (lowering the output increases the frequency).
To test the power output, frequency, waveform, current etc. you will need a very expensive power analyzer like this one:
I know the Humboldt MicroMole, it has been on the market for a few months already. We have tested it, and it is a good ballast.
That ballast testing thread is here
It would be a very good idea for a lamp manufacturer to make it's own electronic ballast. Philips and Gavita have done that for years. Gavita developed its first adjustable electronic horticultural ballast back in 2003.
"between 60 and 100 kHz" is not really a sweet spot, that should be more narrow.
I don't think a frequency rise or fall during startup will have a lot of influence compared to the long periods of continuously 100% use. The soft start feature of most electronic ballasts will actually save your lamp.
About the Gavitas we already have a different discussion in a different thread but no, the pro fixture are just 240 and they are awaiting final UL/CSA approval for the complete series before they are released. They are professional fixtures. It doesn't make sense to power high wattage equipment with 120V. The pro 600 input range actually ranges from 240 - 277V.
For the same reason Gavita will launch its new lamps that are certified to work on different tested electronic ballasts and of course specifically their own. Gavita recommends the GE Lucalox PSL for their electronic ballasts and the Philips GreenPower 400V EL lamps (high frequency) for their professional ballasts which run at 100kHz+.
couchlockd
Active member
i can tell ya what the difference is in the new hortilux. it is a stailess steel arc suport, instead od a shitty nickle one.
that is it, as confirmed the hortilux guy on the phone.
i been using a combo of plantmax's new pulse start 7,000K 600 watt MH and ushio 600 w HPS super red.
one for veg and early flower and the other for the duration of flower week 3 to end and then a 10,000K bulb for the last week
http://www.sznumber.com/en/product.asp?Bid=10
this company here makes more ballasts for other companies to retag and call their own than you would imagine
that is it, as confirmed the hortilux guy on the phone.
i been using a combo of plantmax's new pulse start 7,000K 600 watt MH and ushio 600 w HPS super red.
one for veg and early flower and the other for the duration of flower week 3 to end and then a 10,000K bulb for the last week
http://www.sznumber.com/en/product.asp?Bid=10
this company here makes more ballasts for other companies to retag and call their own than you would imagine
couchlockd
Active member
maybe the "sweet spot" on the new and "improved" bulbs is a wide range, like instead of a grower using sythetic nutes with a narrow ph range (older bulbs) it is more like organic growing were the entire acceptable range is the sweet spot (new bulbs)
i dunno.
i dunno.
