EWC
- Thread starter h.h.
- Start date
mostnonymouse
Member
I don't think I've ever made it more than 25% of my mix. Definitely turns to mud when soaked.
I've re-amended with pure EWC on every recycle. You have to have the right soil substrate for drainage and aeration no matter what you put in as a soil builder.
Try things like rice hulls,pumice,perlite,coco,and peat to "fluff" up the mix....as well as supply a small % of particulate matter such as sand...like from topsoil.
Sand is one of the best materials to increase porosity by opening soils to air and water....and also improves drainage AND water retention.
Sand is often overlooked in soil mixes,but that won't help a mix that doesn't have the right % of base organic material.
The addition of enough sand separates the particles so that air and moisture can move in freely. When your soil is squeezed into a ball it should hold it's shape loosely. Sand should also provide additional pore spaces in which bacteria and fungi can thrive.
I have grown a couple plants in pure EWC alone,but it makes a poor soil substitute when it comes to drainage,etc.
The amount of EWC I continually add to my soil is always balanced with base mix organic material.....that way I'll never have mud.
Try things like rice hulls,pumice,perlite,coco,and peat to "fluff" up the mix....as well as supply a small % of particulate matter such as sand...like from topsoil.
Sand is one of the best materials to increase porosity by opening soils to air and water....and also improves drainage AND water retention.
Sand is often overlooked in soil mixes,but that won't help a mix that doesn't have the right % of base organic material.
The addition of enough sand separates the particles so that air and moisture can move in freely. When your soil is squeezed into a ball it should hold it's shape loosely. Sand should also provide additional pore spaces in which bacteria and fungi can thrive.
I have grown a couple plants in pure EWC alone,but it makes a poor soil substitute when it comes to drainage,etc.
The amount of EWC I continually add to my soil is always balanced with base mix organic material.....that way I'll never have mud.
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Most of the respectable soil mixes I see are done with castings. Then some inert material is used to counteract the lack of drainage. This in turn dilutes the value of the castings.
I know many here are into soil building and that castings provide for a easily maintainable soil, it's just that I can't help but wonder if 5 or 10% is more advantages with a larger percentage reserved for top dressing and tea.
I know many here are into soil building and that castings provide for a easily maintainable soil, it's just that I can't help but wonder if 5 or 10% is more advantages with a larger percentage reserved for top dressing and tea.
h.h.
is english you first language? i find your posts maddeningly confusing...
maybe i'm just still high from yesterday..
is english you first language? i find your posts maddeningly confusing...
maybe i'm just still high from yesterday..
Sand is one of the more perfect soils for one specific property. Drainage. Starting with a sandy or sandy loam soil, you can amend to your heart's content.
Too much sand though is not a good thing. Not too sure about the "water retention" either. We amend our sandy soils in the field with mulches to improve water retention, texture and soil life.
I just have a vocabulary beyond Readers Digest.
Quite simple. While EWC makes for great biology, it is muck in our soil, creating poor drainage that is usually counterbalanced by a greater amount of perlite. As I see it, the same benefits can be accomplished by other means without creating a need for a more perlite.
Quite simple. While EWC makes for great biology, it is muck in our soil, creating poor drainage that is usually counterbalanced by a greater amount of perlite. As I see it, the same benefits can be accomplished by other means without creating a need for a more perlite.
Just a reminder that even if we use compost/ewc it may not be doing what we want it to do.
We have to remember, that although we are in love with ewc and compost, it isn't all the same stuff or quality. Looking back, my grows are much better with homemade castings and compost. I've come to believe commercial ewc sitting around in the sun, or hydro shop or spending the winter outside, just can't measure up to fresh from the worm bin ewc......scrappy
We have to remember, that although we are in love with ewc and compost, it isn't all the same stuff or quality. Looking back, my grows are much better with homemade castings and compost. I've come to believe commercial ewc sitting around in the sun, or hydro shop or spending the winter outside, just can't measure up to fresh from the worm bin ewc......scrappy
good point.
mostnonymouse
Member
true. I have a friend who has had seedlings transplanted into 100% Coast of Maine EWC burn to death. Not saying the stuff isn't a quality product, but the popular belief is that EWC can not and will not burn...
Use pure castings,although sometimes hard to source they are much better. A lot of bagged EWC comes with filler material like straw,manure,etc...lame. Often the shitty EWC are in bags that you can't see through.
Pure castings go a long way....less is more.
Pure castings go a long way....less is more.
C
CT Guy
Read a study a while back about how 20% was the optimal amount of castings in a soil mix based on the research in the article. Sure, you could grow in straight castings, as CC and MM have demonstrated, but the stuff is expensive or takes time to produce. I'd rather use a peat base or something cheaper/easier to make and then use the castings in my ACT, to topdress with, and re-amend my soil. I guess it all depends on how much you have access to. I've been very happy using it at 25% of my mix.
GoneRooty
Member
Good point Scrappy, not all EWC are the same. Like CC1 said, most commercially produced castings have fillers in them, probably to keep up with their demand. I have however found a store out here that makes there own EWC, and they are amazing! Dry, powdery, dark graphite feel, and not fed any fillers. CC1, have you checked out Black Lake Organic's EWC, the ones they make there? So nice!
I didn't know he made castings...?? I advised him to carry the Megaworm brand from Vital Earth and now he does. High dollar stuff,but is the best bagged EWC I've found yet. I'll have to drop by BLO and check it out.
There's a place in Cammas that CC suggested,forgot the name.....probably the best deal and product around if I heard right,I'm just never that way.
That was pretty much the point of my post.Finding the true optimal amount in relationship to drainage material. The most important thing in a medium seems to be the exchange of air and water.
The deeper we go, the harder it is to obtain. The finer the particle size used, the greater the size of our drainage material so it all kind of averages out at an optimal size. By itself,course sand is close to optimal and while being a good filter for passing nutrients, it doesn't have much retention. Without a water table, they get washed out again. Sand with a high water table, covered with organic material as top dressing works pretty darn good outside and my warped way of thinking, substituting DE for sand perhaps and leaving fine particles at the top to filter down over the course of the grow would work equally well in a large pot.
I'll see. I did a Selene(killing fields) transplant into a 10 gallon pot from a 1 gallon with standing yucca fiber(heart) at the bottom, surrounded and filled in with DE and topdressed. Don't worry, I've killed things before...It's doing good but I don't have much to judge it by. Nothing else in that size container.I'll see when I dissect the root ball.
A good draining and water retaining soil also has a wide range of particle sizes. I would think that EWC has a similar particle size to clay..?? I also add a mix of native clay,pryophillite clay,and azomite to my mix and don't have any mud issues.
When I add the rock/mineral based drainage material I add different grades. S/M/L sizes of pumice,perlite,sand,pebbles,topsoil,etc. That along with the rice hulls,coco,vermiculite,forest debri,and peat.....it really performs well with additional EWC added on every recycle.
Experiment with different grades of drainage material and you'll it dial in.
When I add the rock/mineral based drainage material I add different grades. S/M/L sizes of pumice,perlite,sand,pebbles,topsoil,etc. That along with the rice hulls,coco,vermiculite,forest debri,and peat.....it really performs well with additional EWC added on every recycle.
Experiment with different grades of drainage material and you'll it dial in.
C
CC_2U
CT_Guy
The 20% figure you and others have read are probably from the work of Dr. Clive Edwards (Ohio State Universtiy) or Yasmin Cardoza (North Carolina State). Dr. Edwards' has been studying vermicomposting for 40 years. You'll find his name on either the study or his work referenced in many legitimate publications and studies (i.e. not blogs or web sites selling worms).
The 20% level was established for using EWC in commercial greenhouse seedling operations. Above 20% the benefit increase flat-lined, i.e. no harm in using 33% or whatever but that there's little difference in growth rates above 20%. For the disease suppression aspect of castings, it was their independent work that 20% was the optimum amount as well.
A study published earlier this year by Cardoza (Cardoza, Y. J. 2011. Resistance to Insects Mediated by an Earthworm-Produced Organic Soil Amendment. 2011. Pest Management Science 67:233-238) shows that the 20% level is the maximum amount for insect suppression (particularly aphids and spider mites).
In both of their work studying germinating seeds using EWC rooting cuttings the 20% was the amount used (along with sphagnum pear moss and perlite).
When it came to container plants the approach was quite different. Thermal compost was used in the soil mix and the EWC were only applied as a top dressing. Both independent of each other they established that if you apply 1" of EWC to the top of the soil then you have 10% (equivalent) with 2" being 20% - adjust accordingly.
Top-dressing brings this resource back into price reality. The fact of the matter is that buying high-quality castings is a struggle. They're difficult to produce in volume and if you're using your worms to recycle the kitchen waste in a Rubbermaid you can 'fuggedaboutit' cause' it ain't gonna happen. Ever. 40 lbs. of apples is < 5 lbs. of actual food once the water is factored out. Water doesn't make castings.
To get the kind of castings that GoneRooty is talking about takes 6 months (minimum) with 4 - 6 weeks of cure if you have any hope of storing them to preclude problems on that end.
I plan ahead - the 'worm guy' I use has enough volume but the organic farmers have made good solid deals for themselves and for Mr. Worm Guy meaning that the availability from him isn't what it was in years past. He charges $10.00 for a paint bucket of castings which probably has something to do with scarcity - this guy needs a business manager. I prepay him for 8 buckets at the beginning of the garden season before he has any castings and arrange to pick them up every 3 weeks or so during the spring and early summer.
One reason I sent up my new bin - The Mighty Worm Turbo 2011 - when it's fully charged it will produce 1.5 - 2 c.f. per week by using animal manures, alfalfa hay with kitchen scraps at the level where it should be.
The C:N on worm food is generally mixed at 30:5 at commercial vermiculture operations. Not necessarily at operations where the goal is large volumes of worms for resell.
CC
The 20% figure you and others have read are probably from the work of Dr. Clive Edwards (Ohio State Universtiy) or Yasmin Cardoza (North Carolina State). Dr. Edwards' has been studying vermicomposting for 40 years. You'll find his name on either the study or his work referenced in many legitimate publications and studies (i.e. not blogs or web sites selling worms).
The 20% level was established for using EWC in commercial greenhouse seedling operations. Above 20% the benefit increase flat-lined, i.e. no harm in using 33% or whatever but that there's little difference in growth rates above 20%. For the disease suppression aspect of castings, it was their independent work that 20% was the optimum amount as well.
A study published earlier this year by Cardoza (Cardoza, Y. J. 2011. Resistance to Insects Mediated by an Earthworm-Produced Organic Soil Amendment. 2011. Pest Management Science 67:233-238) shows that the 20% level is the maximum amount for insect suppression (particularly aphids and spider mites).
In both of their work studying germinating seeds using EWC rooting cuttings the 20% was the amount used (along with sphagnum pear moss and perlite).
When it came to container plants the approach was quite different. Thermal compost was used in the soil mix and the EWC were only applied as a top dressing. Both independent of each other they established that if you apply 1" of EWC to the top of the soil then you have 10% (equivalent) with 2" being 20% - adjust accordingly.
Top-dressing brings this resource back into price reality. The fact of the matter is that buying high-quality castings is a struggle. They're difficult to produce in volume and if you're using your worms to recycle the kitchen waste in a Rubbermaid you can 'fuggedaboutit' cause' it ain't gonna happen. Ever. 40 lbs. of apples is < 5 lbs. of actual food once the water is factored out. Water doesn't make castings.
To get the kind of castings that GoneRooty is talking about takes 6 months (minimum) with 4 - 6 weeks of cure if you have any hope of storing them to preclude problems on that end.
I plan ahead - the 'worm guy' I use has enough volume but the organic farmers have made good solid deals for themselves and for Mr. Worm Guy meaning that the availability from him isn't what it was in years past. He charges $10.00 for a paint bucket of castings which probably has something to do with scarcity - this guy needs a business manager. I prepay him for 8 buckets at the beginning of the garden season before he has any castings and arrange to pick them up every 3 weeks or so during the spring and early summer.
One reason I sent up my new bin - The Mighty Worm Turbo 2011 - when it's fully charged it will produce 1.5 - 2 c.f. per week by using animal manures, alfalfa hay with kitchen scraps at the level where it should be.
The C:N on worm food is generally mixed at 30:5 at commercial vermiculture operations. Not necessarily at operations where the goal is large volumes of worms for resell.
CC
An examination of the root structure after using ewc mostly as top dress, revealed limited growth into the less nutritive zone.
Since my last post here, I started a bin and am now starting to pull out castings.
Everything I've read says to use newspaper, cardboard and such. Mix in my kitchen waste...No wonder the castings I've been getting are so mucky.
I find pieces of yucca works well, giving them lots of voids to squirm into. I must have at least 25% yucca. Selected garden surplus and waste along with a steady supply of horse manure, maybe about 50%. A little bit of recycled soil. 10%. Oh yeah, the kitchen waste.
Diatomaceous earth seems to be working for pest control. I had ants and cockroaches wanting to invade before I started using it on top. It must make up about 10% of the total.
An occasional sprinkling of seabird guano along with some kelp meal. Even a little cornmeal and some oatmeal.
Since my last post here, I started a bin and am now starting to pull out castings.
Everything I've read says to use newspaper, cardboard and such. Mix in my kitchen waste...No wonder the castings I've been getting are so mucky.
I find pieces of yucca works well, giving them lots of voids to squirm into. I must have at least 25% yucca. Selected garden surplus and waste along with a steady supply of horse manure, maybe about 50%. A little bit of recycled soil. 10%. Oh yeah, the kitchen waste.
Diatomaceous earth seems to be working for pest control. I had ants and cockroaches wanting to invade before I started using it on top. It must make up about 10% of the total.
An occasional sprinkling of seabird guano along with some kelp meal. Even a little cornmeal and some oatmeal.
