SOG too short?
- Thread starter _Dude
- Start date
I just read your 1kw closet grow, looked good.. pity you had to pull it down. I noticed you had some white russian mothers, did you ever sog with them?
I still got some wr beens, just wondering how they perform in a sog..
Yeah buddy I'm real close to that. They're 1/2 gallon grow bags (way closer to what you want for a SOG than the 1 gallon bags unless you're growing HUGE girls in your SOG, IMO) and they're jammed together as close as I can get them. I guess about 4 per square foot, or maybe 4 per 14". Not much more than that.
Cannabean
Active member
yah with 6" pots, which are close to 1gal, they really have the potential to get huge, especially in coco, gotta keep a close eye on em after cloning.
I'm thinking about going to smaller pots. These girls are definitely tall enough for me but they aren't getting as big as I'd like so I think I need to pack more of them in there to take up all the space. I'm also thinking about vegging them in the final containers like Chaos suggested upthread. I know most SOGgers say 4 per square foot is the limit but I just feel like I would be better off with a 5" or maybe even 4.5" pot. When I pull these girls, the root mass is NOWHERE NEAR rootbound. On the other hand, if I veg them in the final containers I'll probably get better root mass, which would mean bigger buds and less need to cram more girls into the canopy. We'll see.
Grow is looking good, they've got about a week-ten days left and I think I'll pull an lb this time.
Grow is looking good, they've got about a week-ten days left and I think I'll pull an lb this time.
Cannabean
Active member
I'd suggest vegging them more before starting flower if they don't fill out as they should...that or a more vigorous strain. For 6" pots and using a very vigorous strain(BDH), I still veg a week (but lollypop like a mofo).
I considered going with 4" pots, (good luck finding them in bulk, i found an italian site selling 10x10x17cm pots which was perfect but they were going to cost me. I was only considering this for ultra sogging low yeilding indicas, like urkle or GDP.
I considered going with 4" pots, (good luck finding them in bulk, i found an italian site selling 10x10x17cm pots which was perfect but they were going to cost me. I was only considering this for ultra sogging low yeilding indicas, like urkle or GDP.
Still drying but yields are shit. That's two in a row. My next is looking WAY better than previous. Only thing I can think of is the thrips really hurt my last two. If the next ones don't get me an lb I'm going back to bushes. I figure I'll try small bushes next, I've always done pretty big ones but I want to see what 4 to 6 weeks of veg then flower looks like (A lot of peeps here act like that's what you do for big bushes but my experience of veg times is way different than posters here. Call it my lack of a green thumb or whatever, but I have to veg my SOG girls about 16 days before I think they're ready, and big girls take a lot longer than that. Can't remember how long I used to veg the big bushes though. Maybe 8-10 weeks?).
Fuck these counts if they're not going to increase yields. I was getting 13 or 14 z off of each 1k with bushes. Pretty crappy compared to 1g/w I know but better than this SOG shit. My highest yield with SOG has been 14 and I was pulling that with bushes every time with way less effort. And lower counts. Just more veg is all.
But like I said this next one might be the turning point. They're at day 21 or so and they look really really good, way better than any of previous. A lot more bud sites and way further developed at this stage than with previous.
I'm measuring height daily now so I can lock in the exact day they stop stretching.
I do feel like I've learned a lot about growing trying SOG though. I'm a lot more confident with large numbers of small plants. I know a lot more about early veg - especially how to wait for those "growth spurts" and how to time them better. Staying more on top of nute regimen and general work ethic. And cloning is like clockwork now, HUGE difference there from my bubble cloner days.
One thing I MIGHT try before throwing in the towel on SOG is vegging them in the containers they'll flower in for all or the last part of veg. Maybe that would help a lot in hitting the ground running when they go to 12/12.
Fuck these counts if they're not going to increase yields. I was getting 13 or 14 z off of each 1k with bushes. Pretty crappy compared to 1g/w I know but better than this SOG shit. My highest yield with SOG has been 14 and I was pulling that with bushes every time with way less effort. And lower counts. Just more veg is all.
But like I said this next one might be the turning point. They're at day 21 or so and they look really really good, way better than any of previous. A lot more bud sites and way further developed at this stage than with previous.
I'm measuring height daily now so I can lock in the exact day they stop stretching.
I do feel like I've learned a lot about growing trying SOG though. I'm a lot more confident with large numbers of small plants. I know a lot more about early veg - especially how to wait for those "growth spurts" and how to time them better. Staying more on top of nute regimen and general work ethic. And cloning is like clockwork now, HUGE difference there from my bubble cloner days.
One thing I MIGHT try before throwing in the towel on SOG is vegging them in the containers they'll flower in for all or the last part of veg. Maybe that would help a lot in hitting the ground running when they go to 12/12.
Cannabean
Active member
Switching from hydroton and flooding 6x/day to 100% canna coco and topfeeding 1x/day helped my yeilds a lot.
Depending on the height of your light, they should be 8-10" tall and hearty with good momentum when you put them into flower.
not all strains are suited for SOG.
Indica hybirds seem to work well.
You should be getting WAY more than 13-14oz per 1000W. I hit at least 1.5#, almost 2# per 1000. And I do not consider myself an expert grower. I am good at room setup, logistics and just getting er done.
I say this not to be a jerk but to let you know there is vast room for improvement.
I have read many grow journals/diaries and the math always showed me SOG had the best yield.
How old are the bulbs?
do the hoods have glass on them? are they clean?
what kind of hoods?
FYI my #'s came from HTG hoods air cooled, nothing special
What is the strain? If I remember it is unknown to you?
Are you sure the plants are fully finished?
Are they getting single colas? My plants had huge single colas
Are you lollipopping them? At what day in flower?
Do you have pics of them at various stages?
I have grown a shitload of plants SOG style. It is a simple method and highly effective. It is alot of work taking cuts, lollipopping etc. Plus the plant #'s. The plant #'s are why I am trying to stay away from it now.
Keep at it. You should be close to double your yield
Indica hybirds seem to work well.
You should be getting WAY more than 13-14oz per 1000W. I hit at least 1.5#, almost 2# per 1000. And I do not consider myself an expert grower. I am good at room setup, logistics and just getting er done.
I say this not to be a jerk but to let you know there is vast room for improvement.
I have read many grow journals/diaries and the math always showed me SOG had the best yield.
How old are the bulbs?
do the hoods have glass on them? are they clean?
what kind of hoods?
FYI my #'s came from HTG hoods air cooled, nothing special
What is the strain? If I remember it is unknown to you?
Are you sure the plants are fully finished?
Are they getting single colas? My plants had huge single colas
Are you lollipopping them? At what day in flower?
Do you have pics of them at various stages?
I have grown a shitload of plants SOG style. It is a simple method and highly effective. It is alot of work taking cuts, lollipopping etc. Plus the plant #'s. The plant #'s are why I am trying to stay away from it now.
Keep at it. You should be close to double your yield
They're about 8" tall when I flower them, yeah. I don't think that's the problem. They ranged from about 14" to 18" when finished. My next crop is at day 21 and they average about 14". A few look to be about 24" but I haven't measured them.Switching from hydroton and flooding 6x/day to 100% canna coco and topfeeding 1x/day helped my yeilds a lot.
Depending on the height of your light, they should be 8-10" tall and hearty with good momentum when you put them into flower.
I think one thing I did on the last one is trim them too late. I trimmed the ones I have now at about 14 days and I'm liking the results better. But I think the thrips made a big difference. The upcoming girls were totally free of the infestation and they seem much thicker, with better flower development.
Different hydro and medium is something to think about but it's a ways off for me.
I think this one's a decent example. Plenty of indica. I don't know the strain but it's got much more indica traits than Nebula, the only other strain I have.
If you have a writeup of the system you ran I'd like to see it.
Good question. Too old. I plan to replace them ASAP. But I got 14z a few months ago, and my last two are around 8 or 9 (one's still drying but that's my guess) so I don't think that's caused the latest collapse. I do need to replace the bulbs though.
They're sealed air-cooled hoods. Sunlight supply.
They aren't clean and I can't keep them clean because they fog up real bad. The intakes and exhaust are all outside and they fog up as soon as they're started. I don't know why because I have a 600w HPS and a 400w MH on a single duct/fan run using outside air too, and neither hood ever fogged up at all. I'm going to be rigging something up as soon as I get the money, to try and fix the problem.
Yeah I don't know. I have Nebula and it looks a good bit more Sativa than my unknown strain.
Pretty sure. I'm tracking height on one of my girls now at day 21 so I'll have a precise estimate of the veg period for this strain after they stop putting on height. Over the last few days I've been tracking her she went like so:
12.5"
13"
13.5"
13.75"
14"
14 & 3/8"
She seems to be slowing down. Previous observations had this strain still growing at day 25 or so, but this time I'll have a more confident estimate because I'm recording it daily.
Small buds at the top. You know how the nodes blow up and eventually "weld" together to form colas? Well, these didn't get big enough to "weld," except at the very top. I've got some pictures somewhere.
Yeah. If memory serves I trimmed them around day 21.
Yeah, the most recent series of pics I posted in this thread are of the grow I just harvested. I have a few more from later, in the last week, I think. I think I probably have a few from chop day actually.
Yeah well, right now I've got the counts without the yields. That ain't going to last. I was doing better with bushes and I'm going back to that if the yields for the next two don't go WAY up.
You may want to read this for harvesting. It may help on all your harvests SOG or not because 13-14 out of bushes is kind of low. I am dialing stuff in and I get more than that
Day 21 may be a little late to lollipop. I went around day 10-14.
My system was pretty simple
E&F tables
Hydroton
6" square pots (may have linked to them in another thread of yours)
Flood every 3 hours during lights on, once during lights off
co2 1200-1500ppm
day temps 75
night temps 85
RH 50-60%
GH nutes Lucas formula
Hygrozyme
SM90
Cal Mag
Liquid/Powder Kool Bloom
I have done this in 2 different locations on 2 different size scales.
I think the strain has alot to do with it as it is not yielding well with bushes. Try AK47, white widow, rhino etc.
Day 21 may be a little late to lollipop. I went around day 10-14.
My system was pretty simple
E&F tables
Hydroton
6" square pots (may have linked to them in another thread of yours)
Flood every 3 hours during lights on, once during lights off
co2 1200-1500ppm
day temps 75
night temps 85
RH 50-60%
GH nutes Lucas formula
Hygrozyme
SM90
Cal Mag
Liquid/Powder Kool Bloom
I have done this in 2 different locations on 2 different size scales.
I think the strain has alot to do with it as it is not yielding well with bushes. Try AK47, white widow, rhino etc.
Thank You All!!!
Thank You All!!!
I'm going to do my first SoG in the next up and coming weeks and the information I've gathered from you guys is just PRICELESS!!! You guys nailed every question I had. I collective knowledge in here is SiCK!!
Again Thank You!!
Thank You All!!!
I'm going to do my first SoG in the next up and coming weeks and the information I've gathered from you guys is just PRICELESS!!! You guys nailed every question I had. I collective knowledge in here is SiCK!!
Again Thank You!!
http://www.rollitup.org/harvesting-curing/210501-zeuss-take-harvesting.html
I meant to post this for harvesting. I know you tend to go by size and when they stop stretching/growing but you may find this helpful
I meant to post this for harvesting. I know you tend to go by size and when they stop stretching/growing but you may find this helpful
Thanks Marshall. GH Nutes Lucas - liquid?
I flood 4 times every 12 hrs so yeah once every 3 hours. I don't flood when lights are off.
I may have spoke too soon for this harvest. I took them Wednesday but didn't trim them until Friday. Really drying out quick this time. It's over 14z right now but it still has probably 2 days of drying left. It's at that stage where it burns no problem it but it isn't all the way dry yet. I have to do final trim, take off the leaves I missed and clean things up. On my initial trim I try to get all the stem off. Stems are heavy and I don't want them bloating my estimates or taking a huge cut from final weight.
Whew. I hope they don't drop too much more weight. If it holds the weight and I get an okay harvest say 12+z, I can look forward to better yields just by keeping the thrips away, replacing the bulbs, and maybe packing them in there a little tighter, say 4 or 4.5" square pots. I think just the smaller pots will make a big difference. I did the math and you can fit 156 4.5" containers in the same area you can fit 90 6" containers. I put about 90 around a 1k now so that could really boost yield. Less per plant, but more total. But it depends on how the next 2 crops turn out. If I start seeing really fat buds I won't need to go to smaller containers.
Harvest is less work with a SOG, btw. Bushes took a good bit more labor to trim.
I flood 4 times every 12 hrs so yeah once every 3 hours. I don't flood when lights are off.
I may have spoke too soon for this harvest. I took them Wednesday but didn't trim them until Friday. Really drying out quick this time. It's over 14z right now but it still has probably 2 days of drying left. It's at that stage where it burns no problem it but it isn't all the way dry yet. I have to do final trim, take off the leaves I missed and clean things up. On my initial trim I try to get all the stem off. Stems are heavy and I don't want them bloating my estimates or taking a huge cut from final weight.
Whew. I hope they don't drop too much more weight. If it holds the weight and I get an okay harvest say 12+z, I can look forward to better yields just by keeping the thrips away, replacing the bulbs, and maybe packing them in there a little tighter, say 4 or 4.5" square pots. I think just the smaller pots will make a big difference. I did the math and you can fit 156 4.5" containers in the same area you can fit 90 6" containers. I put about 90 around a 1k now so that could really boost yield. Less per plant, but more total. But it depends on how the next 2 crops turn out. If I start seeing really fat buds I won't need to go to smaller containers.
Harvest is less work with a SOG, btw. Bushes took a good bit more labor to trim.
Cannabean
Active member
hey dude_,
what is the average distance of stretch for the strain you're running?
My low yielding indicas stretch 5-7" when started at 7-10". the high yielding sativa blue dream haze starts at 8-10" and can finish at 30"+. the momentum they start with makes all the difference though, adequate veg time for the roots to really take hold is key.
strain should be priority number 1 for you. it sounds like you want a high yielder but you're growing an indica. the only reason I run indicas is because I like that purple variety, not the yield.
to be completely honest, I think you're going the wrong direction thinking smaller pots and more of them. The root volume in a 6" pot is enough to grow trees and the plants should be getting that size if you let them. Sounds like you want to go smaller pots/higher plantcounts because you feel unable to get more weight per plant. the 100+ plant count is not worth the risk and not worth the time invested imo.
if I were running your setup and seeking yield, I would do these in order:
1. find a high yielding strain, sativa preferably
2. try coco (still flood if you want, works fine in coco) you'll be amazed at their vigor.
3. after roots, give clones 7-10 days veg in small pots (dixie cups) of coco
hope it's helpful
what is the average distance of stretch for the strain you're running?
My low yielding indicas stretch 5-7" when started at 7-10". the high yielding sativa blue dream haze starts at 8-10" and can finish at 30"+. the momentum they start with makes all the difference though, adequate veg time for the roots to really take hold is key.
strain should be priority number 1 for you. it sounds like you want a high yielder but you're growing an indica. the only reason I run indicas is because I like that purple variety, not the yield.
to be completely honest, I think you're going the wrong direction thinking smaller pots and more of them. The root volume in a 6" pot is enough to grow trees and the plants should be getting that size if you let them. Sounds like you want to go smaller pots/higher plantcounts because you feel unable to get more weight per plant. the 100+ plant count is not worth the risk and not worth the time invested imo.
if I were running your setup and seeking yield, I would do these in order:
1. find a high yielding strain, sativa preferably
2. try coco (still flood if you want, works fine in coco) you'll be amazed at their vigor.
3. after roots, give clones 7-10 days veg in small pots (dixie cups) of coco
hope it's helpful
Howdy bean. I'm not a SOG expert but you just named the SOG golden rule imo. You've GOT to make sure they're vegged long enough so they take off when flowered. That's the most important thing I've learned about SOG so far. I veg mine 3 weeks. The first week of veg they just root. They don't put on any height. The second week the most vigorous start growing, but the laggers (maybe 1/3?) take a bit longer to start. The third week they really start to put on height. I go by root development more than height though. When there's a lot of roots coming out of the cups, they're ready imo. It might not take as long if I took cuts from mothers instead of revegging them from girls during stretch, I don't know.
I agree about strain and I've got some Neb cuts rooting. I only have 3 small Neb moms atm and they take their time vegging. But I just put them under my 600 so they should take off better now. Plus all my moms were at the far edges of my 400 because I've been vegging cuts for flowering under the 400. I'm bringing my second 400 on line real soon now, so I'll have plenty of veg space and I'll be able to use the 600 for flowering again.
Things are really looking up on my end, finally. I even lost crop before last to my guy because I fronted him and he basically robbed me (I didn't get squat but he "owes" me for it), and I still kept everything running and even managed to get caught up on my bills. My last crop was a bit over 12z and the one coming up looks better. My prediction is somewhere between 13 and 14.
Anyway I've got 15 Neb cuts in with my Indica cuts. I can root the Nebs just fine, the problem is getting the moms to grow enough of them. I recently took a bunch of clones from my Indicas as they went into flower and they gave an average of 3 good cuts each. If I can get 2 good cuts each from Nebs during stretch I can slowly convert my whole crop over to Neb. If they respond to reveg like my Indicas do that is. More demand too, people like the Neb more.
I agree with #1 and I'm interested in trying coco since so many people recommend it. I'll probably do a side-by-side to see if there's any difference.
I'll add a #4, buy new bulbs. I don't know if my old ass bulbs are really lagging but it's time to replace them. I still don't know what's causing my 1ks to fog up like they do. I just brought my 600 back on line and there's no fog at all in the hood. The 1ks are ventilated exactly the same way and they fog up. It's got to be either the hood (the 600 uses a Super Sun 2, the 1ks have older original Super Sun hoods) or the extra heat from the 1ks.
Oh yeah, I wasn't thinking of smaller pots for more weight, so much as more efficient use of canopy. My canopy doesn't seem dense enough right now, because there's too much space between the buds. Which reminds me, I think lollipopping is not as great as people make it out to be. I increased yields when I went to a more Christmas tree like shape. You know, leaving some lower branches so they catch the light going down between the buds. I was just looking at my girls coming due and there's a LOT of bud on those lower branches.
