Why change PH to 5.8

[Hammerhead]

This is where I want to be. I want to replace the peat with coco. No soil what so ever. Just because Im adding amendments does not negate that I'm using coco for this test. I might even do a side by side one with ph 6.5 and one with 5.8. I think I will see issues with the 5.8 first. We will see.

There are more inert mediums we grow in like soilless mediums. when I used them had no amendments in them I had to add all of them.


Why would I go to the organic soil when there is no soil in the mix.

 

[Donald Trump]

coco and organics will work. Bennies thrive in coco. Molasses will keep the bennies alive or whatever. Just don't use chlorinated water but i'm sure you know this. GH subculture is a good inoculant if you need. I've heard mixed reviews on pH'ing organics, some say you need to pH it, others have no issues. I say try one test without pH and one @ 6.3

 

[igrowkushbitch]

hey sorry for the dumb questions. When you guys are talking about "buffering" in soil what does that really mean? I have been under the impression that the medium needs to be at a certain ph level for heathy growth. So I have been watering my soil with 5.8 ph water to bring down the ph of my soil. I tested the soil and its around 6.8-7.2 I am trying to bring it down to 6.5. My plants are hating it and leaves are yellowing and dropping like crazy. Am I totally fucking up? Should I start watering at 6.5? My well water comes out at 7.8. someone please help I am loosing my mind over this.

 

[MedWestern]

I need this question answered as im not understanding why we lower the PH to 5.8 with COCO.

If anyone knows why this is done let me know.

I just switched to COCO with some interesting differences noticed, however I stick to a standard of 5.8 through veg and 6.2 through bloom. the reason for this, I dont have an image I can attach here, is that 6.2 is a more optimal range for your plants to be able to absorb what they need durring the blooming process. No matter where your neuts are at, the plant will only take things up as quick as the PH lets it before it locks out. 5.8 tightens down on the blooming specific neut uptake so the plant can have a more agressive vegetative growth. As far as changing the PH because of the COCO, I would say get a high quality COCO that has no EC and is rinsed in fresh water, still flush it and you cant go wrong. Make sure you use Cal Mag, that was one of my fun differences I learned lol!

this is all just my opinion from my findings but I suggest you play around with it your self and find what is working best for you, I dont know what kind of water you use or your feed.

good luck, hope that helped.

 

[Donald Trump]

If you are doing teas, I would add your mix to reservoir and pH to 6.0 then bubble it for 24 hours.. the pH should rise to 6.3-6.5

 

[Donald Trump]

hey sorry for the dumb questions. When you guys are talking about "buffering" in soil what does that really mean? I have been under the impression that the medium needs to be at a certain ph level for heathy growth. So I have been watering my soil with 5.8 ph water to bring down the ph of my soil. I tested the soil and its around 6.8-7.2 I am trying to bring it down to 6.5. My plants are hating it and leaves are yellowing and dropping like crazy. Am I totally fucking up? Should I start watering at 6.5? My well water comes out at 7.8. someone please help I am loosing my mind over this.

mix your nutes and pH to 6.3 - 6.5 always for your soil. You can water at 5 pH and you will still get 7 pH run-off... Im willnig to bet your well water has high ec. Try using bottled water or buy a Reverse Osmosis system. Your plants aren't getting nitrogen because your water is fucking up the pH, and you are jsut making it worse by lowering at 5.8. That or you have bad soil, i'd check your water first though.

 

[Hammerhead]

Thanks guys as soon as I have any info good or bad I will start a thread on it thanks for the info.

 

[ROOTZ]

I believe that ph plays more of an integral role in coco, more so than in soil, because of its higher cation exchange capacity. Coco binds potassium, calcium, magnesium and the plant really has to rely more on its roots ability to exchange it's hydrogen ions for K, Ca and Mg.
It takes a lot of hydrogen ions to exchange with the heavier K, Ca & Mg that are so heavily bound. The lower the ph the more hydrogen ions, and of course the opposite for higher ph, thus keeping it between 5.5-5.8 would be optimal for growing in straight coco.

 

[Hammerhead]

Agreed but I will be adding Organic amendments/buffers that should fix any Ph issues.

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

Why would I go to the organic soil when there is no soil in the mix.

soil - Soil is a natural body comprised of solids (minerals and organic matter), liquid, and gases that occurs on the land surface, occupies space, and is characterized by one or both of the following: horizons, or layers, that are distinguishable from the initial material as a result of additions, losses, transfers, and transformations of energy and matter or the ability to support rooted plants in a natural environment.

You are making a soil.

Soil is not a single thing, but a commonly used word to name a wide variety of... shit... I'm gonna call it: "blended stuff laying around."

Coco is not a soil, 'cause there isn't a variety of stuff in it. It's just coco.

Peat isn't a soil, 'cause there isn't a variety of stuff in it. It's just peat.

Oak leaf moulder, if just leaf moulder, is not a soil, because there isn't a variety of stuff in it.

As soon as you start mixing these things up, you start heading towards building a soil.

That may be why Sam87 said,

For what you want to do, you need to be hanging out around the organic soil subsection, not here.

The way I see things, there are no absolute thresholds between organic soil, salts soil, organic soil-less, salt soil-less, media based hydroponics, media-less hydro, dwc/swc/nft, and aero.

Just a spectrum.

From my perspective, a living amended coco might belong here, as well as in a in an organic soil forum. His real point, I think, is that you're building a coco based organic soil...

 

[Hammerhead]

I would say I'm building a coco based organic growing medium. Just semantics I prefer that over soil.

 

[Gsizzle]

I was wrestling with these same questions in my head with a Coco Base mix Amended with Organic Material. I purchase a bag of Royal Gold Basement Mix http://royalgoldcoco.com/tips. I figure by it being amendment with organic material I needed to run a soil Ph range but had quite a few problems. When i dropped to Coco Ph range and kept the mix moist Ph was maintained a plants responded well. If I understand the question right I think you are trying to accomplish something that is already being done by this company. So the tips might be a lil helpful for you. If not disregard.

 

[Hammerhead]

Ya that say I will be fine as long as I supplement cal/mag witch I do any way in a soil grow so no difference. I might need to add it more often I think.

 

[pinecone]

I would say I'm building a coco based organic growing medium. Just semantics I prefer that over soil.

You probably already know this, but many in the growing community define soil rather loosely. For example, Lavender Cowboy's Mix #1 (LC's #1) from the Organics for Beginners (Organic Soil forum) is actually a soilless recipe. It calls for 50% peat (or coco coir), 30% perlite, and 20% castings. I'm using this recipe with coco instead of peat with no pH checking or adjustments. I'm quite sure that there are others using it as well.

What you are proposing to do has been done successfully before. With your green thumb I can't imagine you would have any problems even if you chucked the pH pen.

Pine

 

[Sam87]

I would say I'm building a coco based organic growing medium. Just semantics I prefer that over soil.

Semantics are just that. No biggie. But in general, if you add hummus and shattered rock (ie lime, oyster, rock phosphate. . .) to peat, then you are growing under the conventions of soil. Regardless of what you call it, it's going to grow and behave like soil. My experience with coco mixes went just fine, although I fought some high PH issues that I never saw with peat.

Now, you can do like Roots does, and lightly amend your coco with a starter charge of organic nutrients. But there's really no benefit to bothering with that at home, as you'll be bottle feeding them a week out of the gate anyway.

The reason I suggested you head to the Soil subsection is because it's a pretty standard deal over there. Check out Clackamas Coot's recipe, among others. I haven't spent much time on these soil boards, but there are plenty of members there you should know what's up.

Now that I think about it though, I don't remember seeing a lot of specifics about what you want in there. What exactly are you planning? Sorry if I seemed as if I was making assumptions, but if you're planning on adding hummus to a mix, I can guarantee that they'll help out a bit more with specifics.

 

[Back-X-ing]

Hammerhead
I wanted to chime in here and let you know my results from a similar experiment. I use to use FFOF for years with some amendments. I wanted to find a more affordable way to mix a new medium. I got a deal on Botanicare blocks of coir so i wanted to use them mixed with some organic amendments. I rinsed the coir even though i heard u didnt have to and added perlite, kelp, guano, worm castings, dolimite and plant success. I didnt even think to change the PH from what i was use to watering soil with which was 6.2-6.5. The first couple weeks I had no problems after transplanting clones from a ez-cloner to the coco mix. After week 2 I started have nute lockout and started flushing it with super light nute solution. I didnt think to lower the PH because I thought it was like soil mix i use. Big mistake, I lost almost all my moms and clones. I stated referring to ICMag about the PH level for Coco and lowered it to 5.8 and haven't had a problem since. I have been growing for many years and am familiar with soil less and hydro and never would have thought Coco was that much like a Hydro medium.
I hope this helps a little and would love to see your results. Good luck Hammerhead!

 

[pinecone]

The two plants below are from my second run with amended coco (soilless coco-based mix), and my first run with no-till recycling of said medium. The plants have been watered with RO water with no pH adjustments. I've used some liquid fish and molasses, but no other bottled "nutes".

Pine

 

[mg75]

^^^^^
is that a mini-soma bed?
are the PVC pipes used as air ducts or to sub-irrigate (like the eco-pot)?

 

[pinecone]

From page 6

Very mysterious PVC pipe.

There is 3" of perlite on the bottom. The PVC pipe is for gas exchange as there are no drainage holes in the container. I got the idea form Soma's book.

Pine

 

[foescan]

I would say I'm building a coco based organic growing medium. Just semantics I prefer that over soil.

You definitely need to hang out in the Organic Soil forum. It's where you belong.

Coco makes up 40% of my soil[less] mix. I use an equal blend of pith and chopped coir. I currently have a few experimental mixes going, replacing the chunky perlite and/or peat portion in my recipe with additional coir chips. So 60% coco in one bucket, 80% in another. I'm trying to stop using peat and perlite and gradually incorporate more coco and other useful long-term ingredients, but the bulk of my recycled soil is peat based.

You don't need to check ph, plants control soil ph just fine on their own. Use a bacterial/fungal product when you mix your soil (haha), and water with a quality batch of tea to keep it moist while it sits for a few weeks until ready.

I've noticed deficiencies earlier in flower with coco-heavy mixes. But also faster growth. Aeration seems improved as well. I don't consider running out of nutrients a few weeks earlier to be a bad thing, since my plants are growing faster.