Why change PH to 5.8

[Hammerhead]

WELL with perlite and lime and worm castings and bat shit and yada yada

Im must remind this is no newbie grower been arrond the block a few decades. So I think I can handel it

 

[RugerBaby]

this is basically a organic vs synthetic situation. Im sure it can be done. Ive seen many people use the amended coco bags with organic ferts. Im guessing your yield might be lower than straight coco, but what do I know? Go for it man.

 

[rasputin]

I fed canna coco with nutrient teas in veg. Worm castings, guanos, kelp, molasses. Worked like a charm, they grew beautifully and fast. Didn't pH a damn thing but my plain water to start. I haven't flowered in pure coco yet, those in veg were transplanted into my sunshine mix. I'm planning on it soon. I'll get back to ya on how it turns out.

 

[Maj.Cottonmouth]

Someone please correct me if I am wrong which is very possible. From what I have read roots created in hydro and soil are different and take up nutes differently therefor the different pH charts for soil and hydro. And I think the roots in coco are more like hydro root structures.

 

[i.love.scotch]

If the PH of your medium isn't right then nutrients and minerals won't be absorbed by your plants as efficiently. You can feed your plants calmag all day but if your PH isn't right it wont be absorbed by your plants.

If you look up 'Cation exchange capacity' you will find info on how different mediums hold nutrient cations better at different PHs and why that occurs.

Coco interacts with nutrients and minerals quite a bit different then peat. The way it magnetically 'holds' nutrients within the medium is much more akin to hydroponics then soil. I think because of this you may find that if you amend coco with the exact same ratio's of organic matter as you would peat you may find you get some deficiencies.

I believe verdantgreen made a comment on how he found adding coco to his organic mix threw things a little out of whack. Something to do with how coco interacts with phosphorus and this rang true to me because many Coco specific nutrients have lowered levels of phosphorus available in them due to coco's unique nutrient holding capacities.

 

[Hammerhead]

I have used coco in my soil mix before with no issues. I used FFLW+lime 50/50 I did not notice anything diferant then a soil grow.

 

[Donald Trump]

yeah so stick to soil or just add a bit of coco like you said worked before. If you want to do pure organics in coco then do it, but if you're gonna do it then do all coco, no soil. you will need to water more.

you wont see a major difference in growth/yield if you are going to treat coco like soil. no debating that.

 

[Hammerhead]

I just want to replace the Peat with coco the rest will be the same. So it will be all coco with organic amendements and Ph bufers

 

[Donald Trump]

sounds fine. Just be prepared to water a bit more. Start in smaller pots if you can and transplant accordingly. Once a day water is good, then twice a day water after stretch is over in flower.

you shouldn't need to pH organics? Maybe just the water at first to 6.0 ? Earth Juice organic pH up and down is good.

 

[prowler]

TAG.

I have two bottles in my closet that i want to ditch completely: Ph up and ph down. I think the key is to be able to sustain healthy microbiological life in coco. Keep me posted on this and if there is something you can always pm.

 

[pinecone]

I treat my coco mix (50% Botanicare coco, 30% perlite, 20% castings) exactly like I would soil which means that I don't even bother to check the pH (I grow organic). Castings have a lot of available calcium in them so I don't think calcium availability is an issue with a castings amended coco mix.

Relative to FFOF, my previous medium of choice, the coco based mix that I'm using now has a number of advantages. First, it holds a lot more water than FFOF while simultaneously holding more air. This means that I can dump a lot of water on my plants and not have them droop from overwatering. It also means that there is a much wider range of saturation levels under which the plants will thrive (from just moist to nearly saturated). Secondly, the coco based mix is a lot cleaner as there are less fine dust-like particles and grit. So far I'm really happy with the coco-based mix. I can't imagine switching back.

Pine

 

[kaappikapina]

I think you can use coco as soil or as hydro. I have recirculating system with drippers. Reservoir is 40 liters and i change it every five days. Drippers do watering 3 or 4 times daily and i use coco specific nutes. I havent ever even checked what my ph is and i havent needed to do that. Plants are healthy, vigorous and overall result have been primo. I have grown over decade with different hydros and soil, but coco is something i will stay.

 

[Donald Trump]

do your coco mix. leave soil out of it. if you are using organic nutrients then don't worry about pH... but you need to water daily or else you might as well stick with soil.

If it fucks up then you will know pH was a problem.

 

[sm0k4]

Originally Posted by krunchbubble
for more calcium availability......


You said this is why we lower the ph to 5.8 to get more Ca right?????? If that true why not just use cal/mag to do the same thing while keeping the PH at 6.5??

Coco is inert, it cannot properly buffer the solution we put into it. The coco heavily absorbs Ca nad Mg, so that is usually why extra calmag is added if you have soft or RO water.

Adding solution to your coco at 6.5 will lock the plants out to certain minerals and they will eventually die. The roots need the pH at a certain level to be able to absorb nutes. Soil works with your water and buffers the water/nutes. Coco hjolds certain minerals and acts totally different than soil based mediums.

Coco = hydro
Soil = soil

 

[pinecone]

The roots need the pH at a certain level to be able to absorb nutes.

This might be true when using salt based fertilizers, but organic fertilizers need to be broken down (mineralized) by microbes before they are available to the plants. In other words, what you pour in or put on top isn't what the plant gets and pH is regulated by the plant and microbial activity, rather than the grower.

Pine

 

[Hammerhead]

some very interesting comments here. I still see no issues with what IM trying to do.

Why is COCO the same as hydro. I do not think they are the same. We as growers do things to make it like hydro.

Having said that I see nothing in coco that would cause a bad grow. The PH is natural so Would I even need to use ph buffers as COCO is naturally Natural. I see some have dont this but not all coco like I want to try.


Great discussion guys please continue

 

[Hammerhead]

Coco is inert, it cannot properly buffer the solution we put into it. The coco heavily absorbs Ca and Mg, so that is usually why extra cal mag is added if you have soft or RO water.

Adding solution to your coco at 6.5 will lock the plants out to certain minerals and they will eventually die. The roots need the pH at a certain level to be able to absorb nutes. Soil works with your water and buffers the water/nutes. Coco holds certain minerals and acts totally different than soil based mediums.

Coco = hydro
Soil = soil

Why would it need to buffer its at 7. If I water with 6.5ph. That's the perfect range for soil medium witch is also a 7ph neutral. I think they use PH buffers because Peat moss is ph4 and that needs to be buffered back to 7ph. COCO AND SOIL ARE BOTH NUTRAL 7.


Does COCO over time change is't own PH??? If I water with a ph of water whatever wont the medium stabilize at 7 or around that since its an inerts pH7 how can that change??

 

[cyat]

hey hammerhead I feel that the more ammendments you put in the coco i.e lime, ewc, gaunos , rock powders that you can treat it exactly like soil. 6.5 ph will work perfect for you esp. if you add lime. all the organics will fill up lots of the natural air space in the coco making it a little muddier like dirt. lotsa commercial "soil" mixes are mostly coco. with the organics you might want to give em straight water sometimes. an old og fact about coco growing said ph at 6.5 too, it all works.One thing people dont talk about much is that lots of good bacteria prefer specific ph's. When using bio-cat they say to ph at 6-6.5 even in hydro for the bacteria. same in aqauponics you have to find a ph that makes the bacteria plants and fish happy.
but, if you dont add organics too the coco you can treat it just like hydro ph, and feedwise once you have enough roots.

 

[Hammerhead]

ya I would agree with that. I can water with a diferant PH if need be. I just dont understand why everyone says its a must to use a ph of 5.8 to use coco?? I still have not got my answer. From everything I have read you dont need to do that with coco in a mix.

The only esone for this discusion is I want to improve root health with out major change in my growing environment. If I swapout the peat to coco. I should see a improvment in root health if true this is such a easy fix for me to try.

 

[Guest 18340]

Take this for what it's worth; For the last 4 years I have used the same nute formula(s) and ph, 5.6, no matter soil, Hydro (waterfarm), Rockwool blocks/slabs or Coco.
Why 5.6? Because thats what it comes out to when I mix my tap water with Lucas formula, no ph'ing needed. (With Maxibloom I have to rasie it slightly, but I ph it to 5.6. Why 5.6 with Maxi? Because thats what a rounded 1/2 tsp/gal puts me).
I see no defs no matter what medium, never.