WTF is going on?

[blinkisback]

The seed plants and the three clones are doing great but all the blue dream are hating life, can someone help me diagnose these little fuckers please? The flush seems to be helping a bit, that was two days ago, you can see the non-healthy sitting next to the healthy for comparison... PLEASE HELP!

They show slight tip burn but also red stems... How could there be tip burn but also a N def? WTF hell?

 

[Stress_test]

Hey pardner, your pics aren't loading.

I'll check back in a bit.

 

[blinkisback]

Sorry abou that bro! Thanks for checking in, and back again when you do... That said, the pictures can be seen in this thread, it's actually the last post in the thread right now, there's a total of eight shots and a more in depth explaination of the symptoms if you have a sec to a read a couple paragraphs as well... Anyhow, without further ado, here's the thread! Thanks again for the help!

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=4461407#post4461407

 

[Stress_test]

Hey man, I need some help. A buddies blue dreams are all messed up and I'm not sure whether it's nitrogen def or mg def. The plants do have pink and purpling stems which according to your guide indicate nitrogen def. However, I had been refering to Mynameisstich's guide and had determined based on that it might be mg def due to ph lockout. When I tested the run off for him it came out super low, like in the 5's so that lead me to believe the blood or bone meal he added to the soil mix (the other seed plants and larger clones were put into a different mix and didn't develop this problem) affected PH so I flushed with high ph water and the run off was 7.0, that was two days ago and they're showing no signs of improvement.

So I stumbled upon your guide here and looked at your nit and mg charts attached to the first page and am starting to think they are nit def due to the purpling stems. That said, I now have to have him wait until the soil dries out from the flush before feeding, if the case turns out to be nit def. The entire plants have turned yellow with some of the larger fans starting to drop off and die. I'm concerned they won't come back for him. The BD's are most of his legal limit and had gone into the flower room (not flipped yet) looking absolutely amazing with lush green, vigorous growth. Growth has basically stopped and the plants are yellow from top to bottom under hps while the other plants in the different mix are looking great.

He had been feeding pretty minimally while they were in the veg room in the cups, and just before transfer had increased feedings until the tips barely burned which is what lead me to think it was mg def and not nit def in the first place, how could there be a little tip burn showing but be a nit def? That's what's confusing me. I'm going to go over there ina bit to get some shots hopefully but anything you can say in the mean time would be a great help! Thanks - B

Well I really can't tell from the pictures but from the info given I would conclude that your initial diagnosis was exactly bass ackward.

I don't think it was lock out due to the 5'ish Ph. That spells deficiencies...

Then you mentioned that he fed them minimally during vegetative cycle and that clinched it.

Flushing done more harm than good in this case.

First thing I'd get a full strength solution of food to em. It wouldn't hurt to add some Brer Rabbit Molasses or some Super-thrive if you have it.Personally I prefer the molasses but it doesn't matter they are about the same thing.

I'd also kick those roots in the ass by adding a tablespoon of Lily Miller vitiman B1 plant starter.

You'll see improvement in a couple days.

I have a thread going in the infirmary where I recovered 10 plants that had been starved and frozen, using the same process. Those plants literally had ice in the root balls and were completely yellow with leaves falls off.

Edited to add: Also, never flush a plant with deficiencies. Fix the deficiency and then you most likely won't need to flush. It is the deficiency which causes the lock out in nearly every case.
You are way better off balancing your nutes and trace minerals to correct def's. Sometimes it can be difficult to determine what the deficiency is, but unless you correct it then anything else you do will be wrong and cause worse issues.

 

[blinkisback]

So, do we wait for the soil to dry out before applying the full strength solution or do I go ahead and add the solution on top of already wet soil? I should mention that he did feed one of them on top of the flush because I wanted to see if it looked any diifferent, that was yesterday morning, one day after he flushed them out, so far it looks the same...

If the nutes you mentioned aren't specifically available due to his budget, will and general fertalizer work as long as it has normal NPK levels?

Also, how could they show tip burn and be def at the same time? Sorry for the pics btw.... You can't see the yellow ass BD's alongside the other healthy plants? Thought it was pretty visible though they're not the best shots... Regardless, thanks for the input, I'll keep this updated until they're healthy again...

 

[Stress_test]

Well they are starving without fixing the deficiency and that means the roots aren't going to take up water again until they get fed. So I'd go ahead and feed em.

That Brer Rabbit molasses is available just about any grocery store in the US for about 3 bucks. And that's the expensive shit, I only give that name because it's Unsulphured. There are lots of other brands out that are cheaper. Just be sure it is Unsulphated.

The last time I got Lily Miller B1 was 6 months ago and it cost $7 a gallon at Walmart. That's a hell of a deal cause you mix it 1 Tbls per gallon. And I use it in every single watering or feeding that my plants get.

$10 ... And the plants should already be getting the chelated minerals anyway, so it's a good investment if he isn't using a commercial product like Super Thrive already to supply em. Of course then again I had it figured that is what helped contribute to the problem to start with.

I apologize, I guess that I didn't say it in as many words before. But that's what I'd do.

 

[blinkisback]

Well they are starving without fixing the deficiency and that means the roots aren't going to take up water again until they get fed. So I'd go ahead and feed em.

That Brer Rabbit molasses is available just about any grocery store in the US for about 3 bucks. And that's the expensive shit, I only give that name because it's Unsulphured. There are lots of other brands out that are cheaper. Just be sure it is Unsulphated.

The last time I got Lily Miller B1 was 6 months ago and it cost $7 a gallon at Walmart. That's a hell of a deal cause you mix it 1 Tbls per gallon. And I use it in every single watering or feeding that my plants get.

$10 ... And the plants should already be getting the chelated minerals anyway, so it's a good investment if he isn't using a commercial product like Super Thrive already to supply em. Of course then again I had it figured that is what helped contribute to the problem to start with.

I apologize, I guess that I didn't say it in as many words before. But that's what I'd do.

Freaking super! Thanks mucho for the help. I instructed him to go feed the damn things, he's got a 10-10-10 fert that I instructed him to mix at labelled level and feed roughly 32oz to each plant... I'll make sure he pics up the molasses and the root vitamins asap and once the roots dry out (hopefully the feeding he's giving tonight will get them through until then, the soil is very wet at this point however....) he can go ahead and hit them again with the vits, molassas and maybe another shot of N at half or 3/4 strength? Super, seriously!

 

[silver hawaiian]

Stress_test, you did it again. ..be the man, that is.

You're the man.

 

[blinkisback]

lol, indeed!

 

[Stress_test]

I'd get the molasses and B1 in the first feeding. They have the chelated minerals and acids to kick start the plants and get em to uptake NPK again.

Otherwise they will continue to starve. I swear I just heard myself say that a couple times.

 

[Stress_test]

Stress_test, you did it again. ..be the man, that is.

You're the man.

Haha you oughta see what I can do when I'm not stoned.

 

[Stress_test]

The seed plants and the three clones are doing great but all the blue dream are hating life, can someone help me diagnose these little fuckers please? The flush seems to be helping a bit, that was two days ago, you can see the non-healthy sitting next to the healthy for comparison... PLEASE HELP!

They show slight tip burn but also red stems... How could there be tip burn but also a N def? WTF hell?

Oh yeah and to answer your question regarding the tip burn: The tips aren't burnt, they're dead. Starved to death. The last thing to grow is the first thing to go as the mobile NPK are transferred inward to save herself.

 

[blinkisback]

Oh yeah and to answer your question regarding the tip burn: The tips aren't burnt, they're dead. Starved to death. The last thing to grow is the first thing to go as the mobile NPK are transferred inward to save herself.

Right on man, thanks again... he fed them and they spent the night under the lights, looking pretty dismal he says... Anyhow, they're resting now under the cover of darkness, he's hoping to see some improvent in pretty short order so he can flip them, but won't until they're healthy enough... Hope the soild will dry out soon so that the next feeding can be had...

Wondering if you reccomend making tea out of the blood and bone meal that's available? Better than the 10-10-10? Plus the vits and sugar of course

 

[Stress_test]

You know I honestly can't offer any informed advice on using blood and bone meal because I've never used it.

Where I live we have months that bugs are overwhelming so I even had to stop using fish meal. I have been using a recipe that a buddy taught me when I first started growing and don't really need to modify the soil a great deal either. The plant get just about everything they can possible uptake in soil without overdosing and I never have to flush because there isn't any salts building up. It just keeps things as straight forward as possible.

But the nutrient I use in the recipe is Jack's Classic and is 20-20-20 and I use the molasses, vit B1 and epsom salts also. So it becomes easier to see the reason your friends plants are so poor now, if he was barely feeding and then what little nutrients they did have was washed out with the flush. Especially when you consider that I never water my plants. I feed em with my recipe with every drop of water they get, and I never overdose or burn them.

See what happened now? They were just plain starving.

 

[blinkisback]

Sure do... He's going to grab some stuff this afternoon to get them on a solid feeding schedule with some quality nutes... Do you actually use epsom salts in the water that is fed to them or as foliar feeding? If in the feed water, at what rate? Thanks again for the helpl, I'm hoping he starts seeing some improvement soon. He says some of the purple and pink veins have started to go back to green and the leaves are starting to have a bit of color, apparently after every 6 hours dark they improve a little more. Hope only two more days until soil totally dry. Instructed him to let them thouroughly dry out since they have been soo damn wet for such a long time. I'll make sure he gives them a solid feeding next time around with everything you mentioned. Any tricks for aiding in soil drying?