Does anyone use Blue bulbs throughout?
- Thread starter PoopyTeaBags
- Start date
That is contrary to everything I've ever read on the subject. MH as a technology does not maintain lumens as long as HPS bulbs. IN a 12/12 garden MH bulbs need to be replaced every 6-8 months, vs ~12 months for HPS.
spunion
Member
Has anyone ever used dual arc bulbs? I think they only work on sun systems and galaxy ballasts, and seem to run around $200+ per bulb and I also couldn't find a PAR spectrum curve anywhere on the net.
My main thing with CMH is that they only work on magnetic ballasts and no hydro stores around here carry them at all.
I think I'm fairly set on using T5 HO for veg though (2 2' 8 strips should be more than enough for 12 plants), really just looking to improve my PAR curve for flowering.
My main thing with CMH is that they only work on magnetic ballasts and no hydro stores around here carry them at all.
I think I'm fairly set on using T5 HO for veg though (2 2' 8 strips should be more than enough for 12 plants), really just looking to improve my PAR curve for flowering.
S
Señor Chang
Has anyone ever compared the blue spectrum to that in the Digilux and Ushio HiLuxgro bulbs to that of the Hortilux?
Those two seem to be a less expensive alternative to Horti's if your looking for some blue in your HPS.
Those two seem to be a less expensive alternative to Horti's if your looking for some blue in your HPS.
FreedomFightr
Member
I want the horti blue bulb bad! Im currently running 2 HPS 1k's. But want the Horti blu hella bad but they are pricey, soon I will get it.
Dual Arc bulbs are a 400W MH and a 600W HPS in one casing, but they put out fewer lumens than a 1KW HPS by quite a bit. Neat idea, but their lack of efficiency makes them a poor purchase.
Unfortunately the only meter most of us can afford or find is the cheapo lumen/lux meter they sell at hydro stores, which only measure visible light and very poorly at that. Measuring quality of light requires a very expensive meter that none of us have, so really we are just hoping the manufacturers aren't lying to us *(hahahahha, GASP HAHAHAHAHA!)
I've used both the Daylight Blue Hortilux and the Ushio Blue, and the Hortilux has the better CRI chart of the two. Not that it means a damn thing really. Also, digi ballasts fry the Hortis but not the Ushios in my experience. Hope that helps somewhat!
Oh and for the record, I just switched from 25% MH to 50% MH bulbs in my flower room (all Ushio 1k's) and for giggles I measured the lumens at 22" away on both the new bulbs and my old bulbs, which are the exact same Ushios but have been in service for 15 months:
No difference in lumen output whatsoever. Does that mean the new bulbs were a waste of money? Not necessarily. The lumen meter is just a judge of brightness, not quality, so the plants may see something completely different.
I feel that the only true test of a bulbs merit is to do a side by side grow with one side as a control (same strains, nutes, everything) and measure the yield difference between the two. Having the potency tested would be nice if feasible, but yield is the yardstick by which we judge our gardens.
No difference in lumen output whatsoever. Does that mean the new bulbs were a waste of money? Not necessarily. The lumen meter is just a judge of brightness, not quality, so the plants may see something completely different.
I feel that the only true test of a bulbs merit is to do a side by side grow with one side as a control (same strains, nutes, everything) and measure the yield difference between the two. Having the potency tested would be nice if feasible, but yield is the yardstick by which we judge our gardens.
S
sm0k4
Next try some UVb through the reptile bulbs. UVb drives THC production more than blue, or so the theory goes. It seems valid that UVb is a catalyst for THC production through various studies and articles on UVb radiaton effects on photosynthesis, growth, and cannabinoid production. Around 7W/ft.^2. A 26W repti-glo 10.0 bulb every 4 square feet should be enough.
spunion
Member
Would those bulbs get drowned out by a 1k watt hps though? I put like 20w of a cheap T5 in the room and it was pretty much completely unnoticeable to me. By the way does CMH have similar UVb?
can you backup this statement? or with other words.. what do you mean by "fills the PAR curve"?
the study i know claim that there is a very very tiny increasement around 1% from actuall thc level, this doesnt makeup a big difference but you have to take in mind, all these studys (actually i know only ONE scientific study.. an oldie. - maybe you can link me to one of the "various" studies you know about this topic) never mentioned the amount of 320-440nm (uva+deepblue) used which is the main range we should look after as this is exactly the range which makes the difference between hps and (c)mh and there are plenty of reports claiming the advantage in resin production using (c)mh instead of hps..
btw, the bulbs you mentioned puts out very few uvb and way more uva and blue! which is actually good because i strongly believe that uvb will harm your plants enough to dramatically reduce your overall yield = the overall resin amount too.
I'll make you a deal. If you can provide me with three studies that says it doesn't, I will provide half a dozen that says it does. Or you can contact those who have done the studies that says it works and tell them where they are wrong. In either case, don't you think this dead horse has been beaten enough?
1
187020
430w hps horticultural bulb w added blue makes very pretty buds...its my favorite !! peace homies !!
fire^
what's your point again? i'm honest, from my pov your post doesn't make sense at all - at least not when referring to my post.
My apologies! You're absolutely right, it does sound confusing and I should have been more clear. I had interpreted (lol...in an altered state of mind) your post as counter to the conventional wisdom in the scientific community on UVR and plant response. I have seen too many posts where an individual would claim scientific studies as "bunk" or a "myth" with absolutely no evidence to support their claim, hence, the challenge. If you will, please allow me to re-state.
The manufacturers of the CFL reptile/iguana/lizard lights, market those lamps (5%/7%/10%, etc.) as being the equivalent percentage of UVR at noon during a cloudless summer day at the equator. Since UVR is invisible to the human eye, any blue that is emitted is to let the user know when the lamp is on and is of no real consequence. The proportion of UVA to UVB output of those lights, is something along the lines of 70/30 to 90/10 (lol...my memory fails me) respectively, but that may not hold true for each company.
Some would hold that the fluorescent based lamps are just too weak to have much, if any, effect. But, from what I have learned from a more recent study, is that as little as 1mmol/m2/sec may be enough to "prime the pump," as it were, and should be applied from early on in veg for an overall increase in THC production. Personally speaking, I feel this has merit and may well be the reason that small grows usually see an improvement in potency. Although, that seems to be genotypic (and possibly even phenotypic) specific.
There may also be a generational aspect to it as well. High CBD and low THC seed taken from weed grown in England were planted in No. Africa and had a marked increase in THC and a decrease in CBD. In contrast, seed taken from the highlands of Mexico and planted in Mississippi showed a reversal of high THC and low CBD production. Subsequent generations showed an even more of a separation between the two. As an aside, I would be more than interested to hear what some would have to say about seed grown from plants grown with UVB irradiation.
Peak absorbance of UVA for most plants is somewhere around 365nm and about 300nm for UVB. MH (and by extension CMH) lamps are made with quartz glass shells and, by law, attenuates most UVA with a more pronounced drop off at around 365nm. Which seems to correspond with an increase in flavonoid prodution. THC (but not the only cannabinoid) is effective at absorbing UVB as well as having anti-pathogenic, anti-herbivorous, and insecticidal properties.
Low powered UVR generators aren't well suited for most large grows, so some commercial growers use the HID UV lamps (made for zoo's, herpitariums (sp), etc.) for their intensity, to cover a lot of area. But, those are a bit much for a cab/closet/tent grow. So, those small scale growers who do add UVB, have to rely on the fluoro based reptile lights. In either case, yes, you will take a hit in yield! UVR can severely damage your plants, especially if too close and/or too long in duration per day. Care must be used in the quality, quantity, timing, and duration of the lights. For me less than 4" away and 6 or more (am working on that one) hours duration with the Repti-Sun 10 definitely burns my plants.
For your reading pleasure:
ICMag links:
“UV Light and Terpenoids,” by GreenintheThumb
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=139726
“Why does cannabis produce resin?,” by VerdantGreen
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=199223
Off-site links:
Stress Under the Sun: Spotlight on UV-B Responses
http://www.plantphysiol.org/cgi/content/full/132/4/1725
A UV-B-Specific Signaling Component Orchestrates Plant UV Protection
http://www.pnas.org/content/102/50/18225.full
UV-B Mediated Responses in Plants
http://www.plantphysiol.org/cgi/content/full/133/4/1420
"The Chemical Ecology of Cannabis," by D.W. Pate
http://www.hempfood.com/Iha/iha01201.html
"The International Lighting in Controlled Environments Workshop"
http://www.controlledenvironments.or...Conf/index.htm
Again, my apologies for the confusion.
Peace
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GivaDogaBone
Member
Just say'in
Just say'in
Having used both HPS and MH, I like MH, for 2 main reasons. First, the light, if seen, from outside or inside, is not orange. Second, the trouble to change out from one to the next and back, is greater than the "extra" I seem to receive. 
+HPS = Dense, MH veg/flower = frosty, but fluffy.
My
Just say'in
Having used both HPS and MH, I like MH, for 2 main reasons. First, the light, if seen, from outside or inside, is not orange. Second, the trouble to change out from one to the next and back, is greater than the "extra" I seem to receive. +HPS = Dense, MH veg/flower = frosty, but fluffy.
My
more resin, less stretch, less yield. plants also looked happier with the blue al the way to the end.
Need advice on lighting, running vertical lights bare with air conditioner. x=lights y =plants x y x lights are hanging in an x pattern.
y x y
x y x
Running ushio 600's hps on corners and a 1000w in middle not sure if I should go MH in middle or HPS plants are about 7 feet tall with about 4.5 feet plant material height & 4.5 width plant matter. leaning toward hps in middle with a 400w cmh either above or below 1000w. My question is will the 400w cmh provide enough blue & UV light to cover whole room? Or at least center of room?
y x y
x y x
Running ushio 600's hps on corners and a 1000w in middle not sure if I should go MH in middle or HPS plants are about 7 feet tall with about 4.5 feet plant material height & 4.5 width plant matter. leaning toward hps in middle with a 400w cmh either above or below 1000w. My question is will the 400w cmh provide enough blue & UV light to cover whole room? Or at least center of room?
Just my experience.
I run a hexagram pattern, 23" reflectors, 30" spacing, red/yellow perimeter and a CMH 4000K in the middle. All 400 watt.
The CMH was not adequate in that position to slow stretch to my liking so I put 2 CMH's across from each other.
I also put a 500 watt halogen in the center overlapping the start and stop times 40 minutes morning and 1 hour at night. This setup is recent, hasn't been long enough to finish a grow yet, but the plants certainly are not being harmed. The halogen idea was from a thread Oldmac posted in about his budroom lights, if it works for him I am more than willing to try it also.
To sum up, 2400 watts of red/yellow overwhelmed a 400 watt full spectrum in my grow. 2000 and 800 seem to be better balanced.
I run a hexagram pattern, 23" reflectors, 30" spacing, red/yellow perimeter and a CMH 4000K in the middle. All 400 watt.
The CMH was not adequate in that position to slow stretch to my liking so I put 2 CMH's across from each other.
I also put a 500 watt halogen in the center overlapping the start and stop times 40 minutes morning and 1 hour at night. This setup is recent, hasn't been long enough to finish a grow yet, but the plants certainly are not being harmed. The halogen idea was from a thread Oldmac posted in about his budroom lights, if it works for him I am more than willing to try it also.
To sum up, 2400 watts of red/yellow overwhelmed a 400 watt full spectrum in my grow. 2000 and 800 seem to be better balanced.
