Sparks! Seeking Urgent Electrical Help

[Stress_test]

Curiouser and curiouser! Have you removed the GFCI receptacles shown in your picture to see how they are wired? It appears as though both receptacles are GFCI's from what I can see. Normally, if they were on the same circuit, a single GFCI would be used with a conventional receptacle daisy-chained off of it's "load" side so that both receptacles would be protected by the one GFCI circuit. Also, are the circuit breakers that feed these two circuits conventional breakers or by any chance is that GFCI breaker that is shown in the upper right corner of your panel involved?

I don't see where your blue plastic box with the GFCI receptacles is being fed from unless it is the unprotected (!) black, white and possibly a green conductor that appears to be wrapped around the flex and disappears back toward the metal box on the left. If these are the feeders, they should be protected (changed to a piece of romex, perhaps). Is that black wire pinched between the plastic box and the foil on the ceiling? Also, if that is a green ground wire feeding the plastic box, where does it tie back to ground if there are no ground wires leaving your panel?

I don't see any pictures in this thread. I noticed before where you mentioned pictures and came to the conclusion that either I was blind or you had some inside information on things.

Anyway, pictures would definitely help. At least a person would have a visual image of what is being discussed.

So I got to digging through some pics I had saved for another guy who was having trouble with 3 and 4-way wiring. I thought maybe they may be of use to help explain what your dealing with or just maybe something would click for the OP.

There are several ways to wire up a 3-way circuit, and it would be very difficult to cover them all.
I will touch on one of the most common and easy to follow methods.



Step One
Bring the power supply in to one of the switch boxes (one hot, and one neutral), on a #14/2-wire cable.
Step Two
Then, run a #14/3-wire to the other switch location.
Step Three
From the second switch, run a #14/2-wire up to the light box.
Step Four
In the first box, splice the neutral (white) wire from the power supply to the white wire in the 3-wire cable going to the other switch.
Step Five
Attach the hot (black) wire to the common screw on the 3-way switch.
Step Six
The red and the black conductor from the #14/3 cable will be called the “travelers”, and will hook up to the two remaining screws on the switch.
Step Seven
At the other switch location, you will hook the white wire from the #14/3 to the white wire going up to the light.
Step Eight
The “travelers” (black and red) from the #14/3 will connect to the same screws as on the other 3-way switch, and the black wire going to the light will tie on to the “common” screw.

This method is probably the most common that I have run across, and all the wires meet at a junction box.
The most common source of confusion and problems is that so many electricians will cheat and use a neutral or ground wire from a single 14-2, instead of pulling a new run.
You also have to be careful because, as you can see: the wires don't always connect to a wire of the same color.

 

[rives]

ST, I don't know why you aren't seeing the pictures - the way my browser is set up, it is the first post on the top of this page (page 3), post #31. There are two pictures, one of the panel and one of the grow area.

 

[Stress_test]

Wow! That blows my mind!
I nearly drove myself wacky looking for these pics you all kept mentioning.

I still don't see em but I'm gonna try a different browser and check.

I may have just found a glitch in the new Firefox version, cause I damn sure don't see any pics it post #31, and they don't even show up as text in a quote.

Fuckin Mazilla, they had to screw up a good browser. It is faster but doesn't appear to be displaying everything.

I wonder if their is a setting that they changed from the previous version?
EDIT: Okay I tried loading the page in Chrome and can see the place holders for the pics, but they error when I try to load em.

 

[rives]

EDIT: Okay I tried loading the page in Chrome and can see the place holders for the pics, but they error when I try to load em.

They are showing up in the top of your post where you quoted Mike on my browser (Firefox 3.6, in my case).

 

[Stress_test]

Weird...
I cleared all history, cookies and cache.
Logged back in and still nothing.

I even checked his Albums and don't see the pics.

 

[softyellowlight]

Make sure you go to the album page, hit the "Edit Album" button, then make the right selection where you see this part (and hit save):
Album Type:
Public
Private - Only visible to contacts and moderators
Profile - Pictures used to modify your profile style

 

[Stress_test]

I checked my settings and they are fine. I don't think that would effect my end anyway, only my albums when other people attempt to see them.

I think it is on the OP's settings for his albums...

 

[MikeRoOrganix]

Yeah I made the album private to friends. I thought if I posted in a thread they would be public for that post. I will mark public. Sorry for driving you crazy there Stress Test

Oh and the entryway lighting in question is a three way switch with one light. Technically there are two lights, one at top of stairs and one at bottom, but they do not operate independently and I was under the impression that one was likely piggy backed off of the other light and for wiring purposes I should treat is as a 3-way switch with one light. There are three lightswitches, one single switch at top of stairs, one at middle landing (on a dual switch panel that has a 2nd switch for outside house/garage lights) and one single switch at the bottom.

THANKS!

Here are new links but old ones appear to work still.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=29700&pictureid=666582
https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=29700&pictureid=666580

 

[Stress_test]

Hey cool dude, now the rest of us can understand what you are 2 talking about. LOL

Umm it isn't really as difficult or confusing to troubleshoot because the wires aren't Romex, and are somewhat color coded. So with minimal effort you can isolate each wire in each run.

Oh yeah, that cord you used is 14 gauge wire at best... Most of those "heavy duty" homeowner extension cords are 16 gauge wire. Just to let you know.

So a couple of questions:

#1, RE The orange cords: I'm probably not seeing what it looks like, but is that cord wired to power AND plugged into an outlet?

#2, RE Breaker box: Can you post a pic of the panel with marked breakers?

#3, RE junction box: Can you get a picture of the wiring and connectors where you tapped into it?

I have a digital art pad so it's easy for me to edit pics, so it's easier to understand.

 

[MikeRoOrganix]

The orange cord is my 600hps, connecting the ballast to the lamp. Since the cable had to be routed across the room, I secured it to the foil backed foam and tucked it behind the conduit to keep the coils out of the way. The cord you see plugged into the elect outlet is actually a different orange cord. That one powers the mechanical timer. There is another orange cord connecting the ballast to the timer's attached power strip.


THREE separate orange cords are pictured here:

The breaker box is no prob to get a picture of. I can also get a pic of the junction box but there is kind of a jumble of wires in there so tough to say how clear it will be.

 

[rives]

Oh and the entryway lighting in question is a three way switch with one light. Technically there are two lights, one at top of stairs and one at bottom, but they do not operate independently and I was under the impression that one was likely piggy backed off of the other light and for wiring purposes I should treat is as a 3-way switch with one light. There are three lightswitches, one single switch at top of stairs, one at middle landing (on a dual switch panel that has a 2nd switch for outside house/garage lights) and one single switch at the bottom.

FWIW, this should be set up with (2) 3-way switches and a 4-way switch in the middle, and wired per the bottom diagram that Stress posted. The switch string can then drive as many lights as your application needs.

 

[MikeRoOrganix]

I have been putting off the testing of the outlets and the switches until I had some time/energy to put into it. I will be testing and drawing ONLY. Not touching any wires at this point.

StressTest: <<Check the breaker panel again and see it there is a breaker marked "Garage outlets". Hopefully there is and it isn't also on one of the 2 circuits you're dealing with.>>

I checked the breaker panel again. There are only two circuits labeled 'garage' on the breaker box. When both circuits are off, my garage lights and light switches (for inside and outside the garage) do NOT work. There is, however, still power to my garage door opener via the elec outlet on the garage ceiling. I ran an extension cord to power my kegerator. Solve my problem, get homebrew sent to you! LOL if only it was that easy.

 

[MikeRoOrganix]

Top breaker is the main 100amp

Some are hard to read:
2: Weather Proof Receptacle
8: DIN = Dining room
Also as discussed in the thread, the two circuits downstairs are kinda goofy and include more than listed on the panel.

 

[MikeRoOrganix]

And for fun here is a nice DJ Short Blueberry nuggerz.

 

[MikeRoOrganix]

Okay.. tests performed! Some things today didnt quite match up with what I was observing before. My apologies as I try to describe some of these things in detail.

First thing I did was leave circuits off and do continuity test. Leads in hot and neutral, meter went to zero, so good there. Hot and ground, meter did not move.

On to AC reading.
When I activated circuit #10 only I got no power to the OUTLETS. (EDIT sorry I wrote circuits before DOH)
When I activated circuit #5 I got power to both OUTLETS. (The other day I swear it took both circuits on to power the outlets) Reading at hot and neutral was 120vac. Reading at hot and ground, I got ZERO volts. Outlets are not grounded correctly??!

 

[Stress_test]

First thing I did was leave circuits off and do continuity test. Leads in hot and neutral, meter went to zero, so good there. Hot and ground, meter did not move.

On to AC reading.
When I activated circuit #10 only I got no power to the circuits.
When I activated circuit #5 I got power to both circuits. (The other day I swear it took both circuits on to power the outlets) Reading at hot and neutral was 120vac. Reading at hot and ground, I got ZERO volts. Outlets are not grounded correctly??!

First things first:
No power to either circuit with #10 ON and #5 OFF.

See if you still have power to both circuits when #10 is OFF and #5 is ON.

Next pop the entire breaker out of the #10 slot and turn #5 ON.

See if there is power to either circuit.

Now this is important so test the outlets and lights in the rooms and outside too. And take notes because these tests will help isolate which circuits are feeding which lights and outlets.
It will also tell whether or not the circuits are tied together someplace.

 

[MikeRoOrganix]

Darnit I said that very poorly. I was testing the OUTLETS in the room.

Edited here and above:

On to AC reading.
When I activated circuit #10 only I got no power to the OUTLETS. (EDIT sorry I wrote circuits before DOH)
When I activated circuit #5 I got power to both OUTLETS. (The other day I swear it took both circuits on to power the outlets) Reading at hot and neutral was 120vac. Reading at hot and ground, I got ZERO volts. Outlets are not grounded correctly??!

 

[Stress_test]

Okay I'm assuming then that the circuits do NOT appear to be crossed.

That being the case then yeah, I think you narrowed it to a faulty ground connection someplace and the foils in your room being in contact with the conduit is acting as the ground back through the conduit.

You need to locate a ground wire in the J-box that is grounded at the panel and ground your circuit.

BTW: A CGFI won't work properly if the ground isn't hooked up.

 

[MikeRoOrganix]

Still futzing w it

 

[rives]

I was traveling today, so I've been off line. Did you take the pictures down in post 31? I can see all of the others, but not them.

On your ground issue - I don't know if you saw my earlier post, but it doesn't appear that you have grounds being carried with any of the circuits that are leaving the panel in flex. It is required that you carry the ground conductor with the circuit when wiring with flex.