Building a soild for smart pots

[sbtransplant]

Now that I've been reading all this info on using perlite and proper aeration and whatnot, I'm confused about my planned soil recipe. This will be for 100 gl smart pots, outdoor in full sun and with the potential for a very warm and dry summer. Thus, lots of water and good retention in the soil mix, but obviously it needs decent aeration.

I am also trying to achieve a mostly vegan soil and fertilizer regime. I say mostly because I will be using a little bit of soil which is a garden builder of mostly high grade topsoil, sand, and some compost. Its nice and black, light to no odor, and very loamy with a light clay aspect. But should it have any animal products in it anywhere, though I doubt it, I am unaware. Also, I will use some worm castings which fall into a vegan gray area. Personally, I feel its just dirt passed through a worm, not really a manure of any sorts.

So here is my mix that I was thinking of doing. Please comment away!

45% mix of compost/previously mentioned soil builder (mixed 50/50)
25% coco coir
7.5% peat moss
7.5% worm castings
15% perlite

Then a mix of kelp, alfalfa, soybean, rock phosphate, greensand, sul po mag, glacial dust, then about a small hand full of neem seed meal for its voodoo magic. Also about 2 lbs of oyster shells as well per 100 gl. ... DOH!! Also not vegan but I'm ok with that. I also have 100lbs that I need to start using.

I plan to use a light amount of vegan liquid fertilizer during their lives, but also feed a little compost tea and kelp here and there, and sometime foliarly until flower.

Please, lend some thoughts. Especially those of you who have used some big smart pots outside in warm N CA summers.

Peace and thank you.

 

[Mizzafishkilla]

FWIW, I'm a big fan of EWC. I'd use more. I understand trying to source quality EWC for a 100 gallon pot might be expensive.

 

[mad librettist]

Also, I will use some worm castings which fall into a vegan gray area. Personally, I feel its just dirt passed through a worm, not really a manure of any sorts.

worms shred material, but what they eat is the microbes eating the material. so actually it's predator poo.


are you going to be starting the plants in this soil outdoors? transplanting?

I ask, because if you put out a water retentive mix in the spring and it's wet and the roots have not colonized the whole pot yet, it's a recipe for rot.

 

[sbtransplant]

I probably wont be transplanting my girls, which are in 5 gal pots right now in my veg room, until mid may when it starts getting rather warm and dry. Also, as I should mention that you brought up, october and november can be a little wet and cold, thus my reason to maybe keep a little more aeration in the pots.

 

[IandI]

Yo sbtransP
I use an organic raised bed made of stakes, chickenwire and landscaping fabric in the hot ass sun with about 30% peat moss, no coco (not anymore!) and about 10% perlite. My bed is 'open' to the ground though.

I think that you would be alright with your mix provided you can water daily in the late summer when they are drinking heavy. I think that at the end of the day tho your soil is gonna be DRY, but not detrimental if you can water early in the next AM, every day. Good for wet Octobers.

I might reduce the coco and increase the peat moss a touch cuz I find coco at v low concentrations just becomes saturated with soil and doesn't do much for drainage, or if it's mixed chunky you get big dry spots in the soil. Maybe 10-15% coco and 15% peat? IMHO coco is great in containers, but a little more difficult to manage in beds. More experienced growers may have vastly differing experiences, but I leave it out because it creates that problem with me.

One thing that makes a massive difference is MULCHING. Mulch! Do it! soil stays cooler in hot sun, condenses some water from atmosphere in the early AM, lessens the evaporation, even can make it much harder for some pests.

I agree with you on the worm compost being accepted on the Vegan side. Reason being that AFAIK alot of the digestion in worms is provided by bacteria in their alimentary canals, and anyways, who are we to deny Darwin's humble earthworms? Read up his thoughts on them and I garuantee you will want them as a part of your nutrient cycle

Happy growing to ya!

 

[trichrider]

vegan? eating the worms?

you're right, just dirt...and plant food. after it goes through the plant there is no resemblence to anything like animal products??? so what is the major malfunction?

honestly, if you are consuming this plant and it has been peed on by a passing animal, doe that make it unacceptable...or polluted in some manner. that is stretching it a bit...

invho of course!

 

[mad librettist]

vegan? eating the worms?

well this is where science and religion have to part ways. science doesn't see a flaccid little wiggly-guy that lives in harmony and only eats veggies. Red wigglers are voracious predators, and that is the role they play in nutrient cycling. They do not derive energy from the "food" you give them. They get it by eating animals.

 

[sbtransplant]

Thanks for the input from everyone.

I'm thinking of bumping both peet and worm castings up to 10% each, and taking that sum away from the soil mix and a touch of the perlite. I haven't really used smart pots very much before, only a single smaller one that worked well, but this time I'm doing quite a few 100 gallon pots. I'm a little nervous about getting a bit too much aeration and not enough h20 retention. Daily watering is inevitable, I feel, but I would like to be watering evenly and not stressing anyone out. Thus I wish to dial in my soil mix.

Another thing I'd like to mention that a friend made a similar non-vegan soil mix using the bulk compost/soil blend that I bought and did not put in any sort of ph regulator nor calcium supplement and got a ph of about 6.5 on average. I was considering putting in a little bit, not much, of oyster shells but considering his # I might not. Feelings?

One more thing to mention is EWC. I can get a 'deal' on some Root Big Worm 1ft bags for $25 each. Considering the more generic types around here are selling for about 10-15$ a ft, is this a waste of my money to get these designer worm turds? They look great, but not so sure its that much better... Thoughts?

Thanks,
SBTransplant

 

[trichrider]

cost may be because of freshness...

good luck with those big smart pots, i'm flagging this sos i can return and gawk.

i would throw those oyster shells in there but don't expect much from them this year...unless you grind them up, but that is overkill...you will use this again in the future?

 

[Durdy]

I'm planning something similiar for the summer, 6 100 gals smart pots, Def gonna tag along to mooch off the info here hehe upgrade from 4 25 gal Smart pots last summer.

Last summer I did 85% Sunshine Mix number 4 15% Perlite (estimates) and used liquid nutes from start to finish.

This Summer I got a pile of soil to use that is 50/50 soil excavated from construction sites (0r so I'm told) and mushroom compost. The overall mix thats in the 100 gals is about 15% Coco 5% perlite and 80% is the 50/50 mix mentioned above. I'm not doing it up vegan, but I added 4 cups of kelp meal, 4 cups of bone meal, and 4 cups of blood meal (they could probably use more but I'm rationing what I have around the house) Later they will recieve delicous organic liquid nutes when they house the hungry ladies.

Good luck! good growing!

Lets get ready for the grow shows!

 

[cjk]

Now that I've been reading all this info on using perlite and proper aeration and whatnot, I'm confused about my planned soil recipe. This will be for 100 gl smart pots, outdoor in full sun and with the potential for a very warm and dry summer. Thus, lots of water and good retention in the soil mix, but obviously it needs decent aeration.

I am also trying to achieve a mostly vegan soil and fertilizer regime. I say mostly because I will be using a little bit of soil which is a garden builder of mostly high grade topsoil, sand, and some compost. Its nice and black, light to no odor, and very loamy with a light clay aspect. But should it have any animal products in it anywhere, though I doubt it, I am unaware. Also, I will use some worm castings which fall into a vegan gray area. Personally, I feel its just dirt passed through a worm, not really a manure of any sorts.

So here is my mix that I was thinking of doing. Please comment away!

45% mix of compost/previously mentioned soil builder (mixed 50/50)
25% coco coir
7.5% peat moss
7.5% worm castings
15% perlite

Then a mix of kelp, alfalfa, soybean, rock phosphate, greensand, sul po mag, glacial dust, then about a small hand full of neem seed meal for its voodoo magic. Also about 2 lbs of oyster shells as well per 100 gl. ... DOH!! Also not vegan but I'm ok with that. I also have 100lbs that I need to start using.

I plan to use a light amount of vegan liquid fertilizer during their lives, but also feed a little compost tea and kelp here and there, and sometime foliarly until flower.

Please, lend some thoughts. Especially those of you who have used some big smart pots outside in warm N CA summers.

Peace and thank you.

your mix should work fine. i'm really comfortable with how peat performs as far as water and aeration so i may switch it up a little if it were me...

35% peat moss
30% compost (leaf mold or a rich organic compost)
25% perlite
10% worm castings / guanos / kelp

pending on the type of compost, you can adjust the density/heaviness of the mix by subracting percentages of compost and replacing with perlite or more peat

 

[sbtransplant]

I've done a few tests making small 1-4 gallon batches of various blends, and I think I've come up with a favorite. I think water retention needs to be addressed a bit better than my initial plan, mostly because I see a lot of drying even when it barely hit 80 degrees the other day.

So here's what I've come up with:
40% compost/soil mix
10% native garden soil from my organic veggie garden. Clay loam that had a lot of compost and aged horse manure added to it over many years. Its pretty nice dirt!
20% coco coir
10% EWC
10% Peet
10% Perlite

I suppose the vegan ferts added in addition to this gives me about 104%, which is how much effort I'm putting into this so I think it should work

This kinda sounds heavy and a little on the over-saturation side on paper, but I'm really happy with the texture and look. Seems perfect. I put a tomato in a 10 gal smart pot of this mix with a little adjustment in ferts, so we'll see how it does. So far I really like how it fills, drains, and the plant looks great.

Trichrider, my oyster shells are in powder form. So I'm thinking per 100gal smart pot using about 2.5 lbs.

I'm probably going to make a new thread about my vegan pots. I'll post a link here when I do. Until then, please keep sending some thoughts and comments.

 

[sbtransplant]

I thought I might add a little update about how my soil composition is doing now that the pants are growing well and its been hot out.

I have to water a lot! I'm averaging about 4-5 gallons per 100 gallons, per day now that it's been about 90 for a few days straight now. I added a bit of wetting agent a few weeks ago and it helped keep the top a little more moist and thus the rest of the soil column, but only for about a week. It's too expensive to go through 2 quarts a week.

I think next year I'm going to reuse this mix and add about 15% Pro Mix HP and about 10% EWC and call it good. That should help out if next summer is as hot.

 

[rrog]

Curious if the Smart Pots are much wider than a 5 gallon pail. I can fit three 5 gallon pails side by side and that's it. If these bags splay out wide they will not fit. Thanks