First time post, long time lurker

[meestermoosey]

Hello readers, like the title says, I've been lurking around here for quite sometime, currently on my 5th week of bloom on my very first grow, and id like to thank the whole icmag community for posting up such great and useful information as well as comments to others who have had the same problems I've had, sparing the repetitive questions on what I should doabout my crops. Im currently trapped in a top drip feed system that gave me a whole mess of problems, long story short, I've made quite a discovery in the world of rdwc and am planning on investing into building a set up on my next run with 5 gallon buckets connected to a 20-25 gallon's reservoir buffer zone. I have quite a few questions in regards to the proper flow of nutrients in it as well as nutrients in general for it though so here I go.

1. I plan on making it a 12 site (3 buckets X 4 buckets), the undercurrent flowing out the left and right row and returning in the center row back into res. The reservoir will be facing the side with 3 rows. Will it affect the nutrient uptake as it flows through all the buckets, especially towards the last center row?

2. What would be the best nutrients to run in a system like this? My heart wants to follow the advanced nutrients line, but I've heard great things from dutchmaster. I originally was going to follow the gh 3 part highgrade formula, but second guessed it after hearing from other forums that the yield isn't as satisfying. Others I've heard as" great" for rdwc up were canna and H&G. I know its an opinion, but hearing ideas of what benefits each company can provide to my babies will help me find something I can hope to make my own and customize with experience in the near future.

any response is welcome good or bad. Im a noob.
ps: my first and current run is bubblegum, aliendog, and sour bubble following the botanicare pro series, I've decided Its not my kind of thing.

Wish me luck, I might start a journal if I can get my hands on a camera and laptop/computer

 

[Haps]

Welcome, have fun learning. 1 - depends on how you build it, good design should not create problems, look at what others have done successfully here. 2 - there is no one right answer, but an is for folks who light their joints with dollar bills. I like floranova, but it is not the only way to go either, but I have no reason to try others. Much of it is tuning the grow in once you get a couple harvests to learn from.
H

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

...currently on my 5th week of bloom on my very first grow... in the world of rdwc and am planning on investing into building a set up on my next run with 5 gallon buckets connected to a 20-25 gallon's reservoir buffer zone.

Hey man... it's your life, and your grow...

But, if what you say is true,

Im a noob.

You might want to stay away from RDWC for a while.

The successes are impressive, but the failures are equally tragic.

I'd like to refer you to mrdizzle. He post here but documents his grows elsewhere. He has mad skills. And he is one of many talented growers who had mad success with rDWC for a number of runs then had some unexplained failures. Now he grows in coco/perlite with an automated hempy setup. And slays it.

My point is this: when experienced, successful growers are challenged by diagnosing rDWC problems to the point of crop failure, it is a massive task for a new grower to take on.

It's your life, and your grow.

But there are more forgiving, less expensive ways to be just as successful.

 

[meestermoosey]

TThank you both for the insights. During my current run, I built two plain dwc, five gallons each under T5 four bulbs on the side to see if I can handle it and currently am having success with it so far. They're both grapefruit haze (tried fimming one and lst on the other) on the floranova bloom Lucas formula (alternative) at 1/4 strength.

With rdwc, the main concern id have is an even amount of nutrient uptake and water temps. Im also going to try scrog, so this new run will be like starting from page 1 all over again.

Once again I really appreciate your guy's input on this, and hopefully I can get this show on the road in a few months.

 

[paladin420]

Welcome!! No1. I would run seperate lines for each groupingof pots for several reasons: water flow,easier to isolate problems,any change in numbers due to addin or subtracting plants.
No 2. Nutes?Yep personal choice.H&G not really for new folk,its tricky. A N? yep pricey,but the returns allow you to light ur doobs with dollar bills (Haps is cooorrreeecctt). Personally currant run is organic pura vida.
I think my imaginaryfriend is tryin to tell you that ther r easier/safer methods out there. I hav decades of hydro experence and don't recommend RDWC to my clients. so good luck

 

[St3ve]

what don't you like about the botanicare pro blend? Its a very good, mostly organic nutrient system.

Not to mention if you change up too many things at one time its going to be hard for you to really master any of it. Nutes are one of the last things you should be changing up on as most any of them would give great results if everything else is in check.

 

[mrdizzle]

may I suggest forgetting all about rdwc. its and exciting system to use, super fast veg grow, big bushy canopy, but yeilds dont seem to be there come harvest date.

while you maybe save yourself 2-3wks in veg time, the very real possibility of crop failure is so real you taste it if you concentrate.

think about a coco/perlite grow, DTW, on a times feed, 2-5gal buckets stacked, top bucket with drain holes, bottom bucket plumed with a 3/4in ebb n flow, connect all the buckets and run some tubing to a drain or a rubbermaid.

this style system needs 15mins of your time to run every 3-4days, and you can set your watch to harvesting.

good luck dude

 

[krest]

Total crop failure is real and can happen fast. The first (and last) time I lost an entire crop, I seriously cried.

 

[mrdizzle]

^^^ spread the word bro, everyone shrugs off shit when they see someone else's grow fail but they arent doing the math in their heads. I know a bun of people on their 3rd or 4th rdwc grow who think they are untouchable, it will never happen to me. what goes around comes around everytime

 

[meestermoosey]

:O
Man now im scared to try it out lol. The ebb and flow top drip was an idea that crossed my mind, but finding clogged drippers made me kind of distance myself from it. Because of it, I began consider undercurrent, now reconsidering it because of the new fail rates u guys mention Haha.

Now im back on the hunt for a different set up. Im just looking for something that I can feel myself tuning into and loving it so hopefully, ill find it soon

 

[meestermoosey]

And as for the botanicare line, the growth of my plants compared to the growth of my buddies who used the advanced nutes Lucas formula alt. Was a bit slower and not as vibrant, and he has about the same tent set up as I do. He doesn't use additives that I know of and i wouldn't doubt that because he likes cheap and simplicity.

I also love exploring new reputable products, its like going to a different food joint to see what they have to offer

 

[superusa]

may I suggest forgetting all about rdwc. its and exciting system to use, super fast veg grow, big bushy canopy, but yeilds dont seem to be there come harvest date.

the yield doesn't seem to be there?....That's certainly news to me man....contrary to everything i have experience with dwc and several growers i know who use it...

TThank you both for the insights. During my current run, I built two plain dwc, five gallons each under T5 four bulbs on the side to see if I can handle it and currently am having success with it so far. They're both grapefruit haze (tried fimming one and lst on the other) on the floranova bloom Lucas formula (alternative) at 1/4 strength.

With rdwc, the main concern id have is an even amount of nutrient uptake and water temps. Im also going to try scrog, so this new run will be like starting from page 1 all over again.

Once again I really appreciate your guy's input on this, and hopefully I can get this show on the road in a few months.

Here's the deal, if you can grow in individual buckets, then rdwc is easier to maintain and run. If you intend to build a system, do yourself a favor and use the proper fittings, like these:

http://www.ecogrow.com/index.cfm/product/1056/mid/15/nid/115/home.html

they don't leak if you get them snug. Things to keep in mind for success in rdwc...lots of air, and lots of circulation. A flow rate that swaps out each bucket about once every 2 minutes is a good target so for 12 buckets i would use a pump (or combination of pumps) no smaller than 1200gph.In this area faster is better so a 1500gph or better would serve even better. Use black buckets or ensure that your buckets are lightproof.

everybody here is making dwc out like the devil lol. it's ridiculous. It is not necessarily the simplest but it is easily accomplishable. Keep things clean, keep your res temps 68-72* stay away from organic nutes, carbo loads, and surgary additives. growth rates in dwc are amazing, and there is no reason your crop has to fail... if you clean between runs you should have no problems. If you happen to get root rot for whatever reason and you catch it early on, try florashield... it works well. there are some other treatments such as physan 20 or whatever that are awesome as well. I am amazed, i haven't been on icmag in a while and everyone is preaching against dwc lol. crazy....

 

[BlindDate]

Most of the peeps who have been doing this for a long time tend to drift towards reliability vs speed hence the reason coco is so popular. Because while you may out yield a coco grower with your high pressure full blown aeroponics whiz-bang system, all he need do to tie is add one more plant, or one more light.

With that out of the way, I'll say go for it using the RDWC. It will be a great way to learn. Just remember that environment is everything and that all your efforts and system sophistication can be canceled out with a room temperature that is 5 degrees high or a humidity level 10% low.

 

[Phaeton]

I have a grower friend, grew a strain he developed himself. Eight years he grew it, great in almost every respect, mostly sativa. He got casual, always grew, never sick, took stress, good yields. Overconfidence from too many trouble free crops.
He lost the entire line during a high humidity summer, the plants could have been saved but he felt himself bulletproof.

Treating every crop as the first keeps it better and better as the learning curve grows. Being goldern leads to problems killing entire crops instead of being nipped in the bud.

High maintenance systems stay high maintenance systems everytime, experience does not really ease the work load. The simple systems seem more reliable because slacking affects them less.

Do it. Keep it documented.:kitty:

 

[meestermoosey]

Superusa as well as mrdizzle, id rep u guys but internet from my phone is spazzy :/ id rep everyone on this thread too lol just for showing me how great and bad rdwc can turn out. As for the fittings, that was coincidentally what I was going to look at since the convenience of tube fittings seemed more capable of being moved around rather than having to stick in PVC pipes. It slipped my mind his username was blazed something with a great tutorial on building a system of this sort, and my original plan was to follow his blueprint, except have 1 really strong water and air pump, have it all flow undercurrent back into one rez. Im currently getting down specs on a simple drawing for an 8 site up, two rows of four with return line running down the middle, since I've concluded less is better in this scenario with more control and observation under scrog for a 1k light. Also gotta go ac shopping (or water chiller) for the summer (whichever is more economical in the sense of water and tent temps)

Back up plan?
1. Convert to plain rdwc and add a few more tubing
2. If that doesn't fly convert it to ebb and flow
3. If all three plans fail, cry, smoke, cry some more, collect myself, cry again, and turn it all into hempys fed with top drip pump every other day or so.

Thank god for the versatility of growing indoors

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

everybody here is making dwc out like the devil lol. it's ridiculous. It is not necessarily the simplest but it is easily accomplishable. Keep things clean, keep your res temps 68-72* stay away from organic nutes, carbo loads, and surgary additives. growth rates in dwc are amazing, and there is no reason your crop has to fail... if you clean between runs you should have no problems. If you happen to get root rot for whatever reason and you catch it early on, try florashield... it works well. there are some other treatments such as physan 20 or whatever that are awesome as well. I am amazed, i haven't been on icmag in a while and everyone is preaching against dwc lol. crazy....

I ran DWC. It worked very well. I never thought about it. I just added nutes. Things grew.

Then something changed. I don't know what. And things died. At the worst possible time. And I've spent more than a year trying to get back on track. Maybe some people can afford to loose a plant or two. Others cannot.

My point(s):
1. DWC--and more so in rDWC--are systems with complicated dynamics. Mechanically, a stand alone DWC cell can be extremely simple, but the roots are directly in solution. Variations in solution characteristics can spell disaster. That is, it can be mechanically simple, but complex in performance.

2. Few people on the boards understand them in a meaningful way--Anyone posts a problem and the response will be all of these: oh, your plants are hurting because of pH, ppm, DO, root zone temp... etc. You'll be guided to buy a chiller. Buy Physan20. Buy Chlorox. Use EWC. Run a dead rez. HydroShine. Etc. $1500 later, you're still confused and the plants are still dead.

For a minute, there were more threads over at the Farm on the UC subforum begging for help than there were showing success. Then, mysteriously, they all disappeared/unsticked. mrdizzle graciously came into the thread to toss in his two cents. Google his grows, watch where he came from--and how productive his rDWC was... then watch after two unexplicable failures, he changed to an 'automated coco/vermiculite hempy' and has had smooth sailing since...

DWC/RDWC can be great systems. Properly handled (or just with good luck) they can grown great plants. But they have little room for error and death can be immediate. And it may come from an unexpected cause, like a humidity swing (okay, that's a really bad example... how about: "a new air born pathogen").

A COMPROMISE:
How about splitting your room. Put some of your plants in coco in smart pots. Run blumats with a straight clean salt-feed (i.e. no liquid karma if you've still got it around). Teas or whatever gunky stuff can be straight top watered.

Then have a couple DWCs beside them, and start playing around with adding plumbing and pumps.

That way, you'll harvest while you learn.