Organic Questions..?

[mitch_connor]

Hi,

I currently grow using Organics, But the lazy way I.e Shop bought soil and Liquid Nutes..

Soil: Biobizz All-Mix

Nutes: Biobizz grow and Bloom

+ Organic Molasses from the on set of flowering.

Basically, I'm looking to switch to bluemats, so my plants are auto-watered.

I'd like to keep to the organics, but have been advised against running a liquid organics/water mix as it will clog the pipes, and also the nutrient/water mix has to be used the same day is it made or it's likely to go bad.

So if keeping plain water in the tank, could I just top-dress the soil with organic amendments?

Basically my grow goes as follows (Autoflowering plants)

Weeks from Seed

Week 1-2 - Biobizz light mix soil - Plain water

Week 3 - Pot up into Biobizz All-mix - watered in with 1ml/Litre of grow.

Week 4-8 - Biobizz grow 1ml/litre, Biobizz Bloom - 1-4ml/Litre + Molasses
Week 5-6 - Small dose of Epsom salts
Week 8-10 - Plain Water

Even though the biobizz All-mix soil is said to have enough nutrients for a few weeks at least (EC 2.4) They seem to get through it extremely quickly, so I feed from being transplanted to avoid seeing any deficiencies.

If I topdressed the soil After transplanting for flower, do you think the amendments would be released soon enough to be readily available for plants to take up during flowering?

They spend approx. 8 weeks in their final pots - 6 weeks of the 8 in full flower.

Just for Info All-Mix consists of :

• 20% sphagnum peat moss,
• 35% base soil,
• 10% high quality organic worm-humus,
• 30% perlite
• 5% Pre-Mix.

EC 2.4 PH 6.2-6.6

I was looking at using a mixture of the following as a top dressing..although i'm not sure what I can easily get ahold of here yet, just trying to figure out a plan for myself.

Desert Bat Guano N= 8 P= 4 K= 1
Cave Bat Guano N= 3 P= 10 K= 1
Blood Meal N= 11 P= 0 K= 0
Kelp Meal N= 1 P= 0.5 K= 2.5
Greensand N= 0 P= 1.5 K= 7
Worm Castings: N=1.1 P=0.4 K=0.4

Not in any particular order ^^

Thanks in advance

CHeers, Mitch

 

[mad librettist]

blending worm castings with guano and kelp meal will give you a fast acting top dressing

 

[pinecone]

Top dressing works really well in my experience. You could easily do an entire grow just top dressing. This said there is nothing to prevent you from mixing up a little something and pouring it over the blumats. I use the blumat jrs in a few of my houseplants and they regularly get doused with tea that was brewed for the my MJ plants.

Pine

 

[mitch_connor]

Thanks guys! Much appreciated.

Yeh true say, there isn't anything stopping me making up the occasional liquid nutrient supplement if needs be. I might do that just to give them the molasses in flower.

What steps would I need to take to re-cycle my soil? (I probably use 200 litres of soil for each grow ) I would probably just want to recycle the soil I use for flowering to begin with.

Also I remember reading (not sure how true it is) that you can't really 'flush' an organic soil, at the moment giving the plants plain water for the last week or so enables them to use any stored nutrients in the leaves, but with a top dressing, this wouldn't occur? Would that effect the buds taste / smokeability?

 

[Epiphyte]

Organic gardening is all about rubbing roots and caressing stems. If you are not there to water, then who is going to talk to the ladies and encourage them to grow?
Maybe if you put some quartz in the pots, that would make up for your absence...

 

[mitch_connor]

I'm not saying i'm going to absent from my grow, of course I will still check them once a day at least, but I haven't always got the time to hand water them as well as I'd like to, so thats why I want to try blumats.

Plus some plants need water at different rates and quantities

 

[mad librettist]

i love my blumats

 

[Epiphyte]

I honesty didn't know what blumats were other than a self watering system...but they actually seem like the perfect going out of town solution. Mab librettist, do you think your pots could dry out more? Are you satisfied with how dry they get between "waterings" and do think your growth rates are similar to if you hand watered?

Obviously I am no expert, but the blumats seem like they would get clogged easily with a thick organic mix...however, top dressing and having a nice soil mix sounds like a good way to keep it OG and plain water maybe with some additives here and there might be something you could mix in the rez.

 

[mad librettist]

I don't see how they could clog... water only comes out, and not through the cone. THe cone is a sensor.

You can adjust them to do whatever you want. Wet, dry, whatever. I like to use fish hydrolysate and soluble seaweed, watered in with a sprayer. With blumats it's no problem I just make it a little stronger than normal and apply lightly.

 

[Vincent VanGrow]

Hi,

I currently grow using Organics, But the lazy way I.e Shop bought soil and Liquid Nutes..

No, dude, that's the HARD way! Mixing up the potions, shaking em up, trying to put equal amounts on everything...and bottled "organics" usually smell a bit funky too! No, the lazy, er, easy (read=smart) way to grow is to put water on them and walk away. You spend a little time and effort every few months to dial up a good soil mix, and nature takes over. Learn to make a good EWC tea, still use your molasses, maybe some alfalfa in it, and watch your plants love life. $15-20/quart for any of it is just robbery, especially when you see how a GALLON of tea can be made for pocket change.

 

[Vincent VanGrow]

What steps would I need to take to re-cycle my soil? (I probably use 200 litres of soil for each grow ) I would probably just want to recycle the soil I use for flowering to begin with.

Brilliant! Good for you for thinking that way! That's when organics get really good, using properly recycled soil. Get some Rubbermaid container or something similar. Drill some hole around the bottom for aeration. Dump your used soil in the containers, roots and all, and break it all up really good. Add some high quality EWC and keep it moist. Some people turn it regular, others say this is no good. Personal preference I think, as both have worked for me. Add amendments if you like, but keep track of what you added, if anything last time around. If you plan to to this, rock dusts are very beneficial and break down slowly. THe longer it goes, the better.

 

[mitch_connor]

Thanks man, would 10 weeks be long enough for the soil to be re-juvenated?

At the moment I probably spend an average of £65 on soil and £15 on nutrients per grow, and it's a pain trying to get rid of the 'used' soil,

I'm going to have to find a good place to find organic amendments..

 

[pinecone]

What steps would I need to take to re-cycle my soil? (I probably use 200 litres of soil for each grow ) I would probably just want to recycle the soil I use for flowering to begin with.

Recyclers are doing everything from sifting the roots out, re-amending, and letting it sit for an extended period of time to cutting the stumps out and replanting right away. My advice would be to do a bit of research and figure out what is going to work out best for your needs and growing style.

Also I remember reading (not sure how true it is) that you can't really 'flush' an organic soil, at the moment giving the plants plain water for the last week or so enables them to use any stored nutrients in the leaves, but with a top dressing, this wouldn't occur?

A couple of things to think about
(1) most organic nutrient amendments are not in a form that can be absorbed by the plant
(2) in order to be absorbed said amendments need to be broken down by microbial activity
(3) the plant plays a role in regulating microbial activity and nutrient uptake
(4) most plants slow down with respect to the uptake of nutrients and water late in flower naturally.

Thus, if you top dress something (a quarter cup of guano for instance) it is going to take some time before it is completely broken down into soluble form and available to plants and the plants are going to have a role in determining how fast it is available depending on their needs. If you think about it like this there is no reason to run massive amounts of water through your pots (you aren't going to rinse the guano out and only a potion of the guano is in plant soluble form). This said, there may be a reasons to stop top dressing fertilizers after a point in the flowering cycle. Personally, as long as I've been doing a good job maintaining healthy soil and plants, I don't see the point of top dressing anything in the last 2-3 weeks. I don't see the point because plants are unlikely to make use of what I put in during the last 2-3 weeks.

Would that effect the buds taste / smokeability?

Plants yellow out naturally and smoke good.

Pine

 

[mitch_connor]

Thanks Pinecone,

With my 8 Weeks flowering period - First two weeks of the 8 they are preflowering.

Could I just amend/top dress the soil once for the flowering period?

I'm assuming that it would take 2 weeks before the majority of amendments would really become available?

What sort of quantities would I need for an individual plant - in a 6 litre Square Pot?

Also, the soil out the bag is said to have buffers in it that keep the PH at the right level, after a plant using the soil for 8 weeks will it have shifted and need to be amended with dolomite lime to be used again?

Sorry for all the questions guys. But big thanks for your help.

cheers, mitch

 

[pinecone]

With my 8 Weeks flowering period - First two weeks of the 8 they are preflowering.

You could probably build a soil that would just require water for 8 week flowering cycle.

Could I just amend/top dress the soil once for the flowering period?

You could also build a soil that required a minimal top dressing.

I'm assuming that it would take 2 weeks before the majority of amendments would really become available?

I used to keep moms in 4" square pots. When they would start to yellow or show other deficiencies I would top dress with guano and/or EWC. Within a couple days the plants would look better. Recently, I've had similar experiences with much larger containers. Thus, I don't think it takes much time for some of what you top-dress to become available. This doesn't however mean that it is all available; it will continue to provide food for the microbes and nutrients to the plant for some time.

Also different organic amendments break down at different rates. Blood meal and fish breaks down and is available quickly whereas guonos are more slow release in my experience. You probably don't want to top dress with a bunch of fasting acting stuff all at once.

What sort of quantities would I need for an individual plant?

Really depends what is in the soil, what you are growing, what you are using to top-dress with, and how big your containers are. In an active soil top-dressing almost anything works quick (days) so you can always wait to see how the plants look and respond accordingly. With 6 liter pots I would be thinking about tablespoons of must stuff with the exception of EWC which you can pretty much go nuts with and will solve a lot of problems.

Also, the soil out the bag is said to have buffers in it that keep the PH at the right level, after a plant using the soil for 8 weeks will it have shifted and need to be amended with dolomite lime to be used again?

During the course of a flowering cycle you should not need to be concerned about pH in an organic grow (the plant and microbes regulate pH).

Pine

 

[mitch_connor]

Cheers Pine, P.s it won't let me give you proper rep, after i've thanked you for your posts, sorry

With reference to the last question you answered for me, I was mentioning lime for after the grow when the soil will be recycled for a period of time before being used again.

Also general question to anyone practising organics in the UK, is there a good single store with a good selection of amendments? google isn't really being my friend on this one.

cheers

 

[pinecone]

With reference to the last question you answered for me, I was mentioning lime for after the grow when the soil will be recycled for a period of time before being used again.

With respect to that question - I'm not really sure as I'm new to indoor soil recycling. I did some re-liming via top dressing in my recyled coco-based mix, but I'm not sure it was entirely necessary. I think re-liming it would be potentially more important to do with a peat-based mix and that you don't need to re-lime at the original application rates as lime breaks down slowly.

Also general question to anyone practising organics in the UK, is there a good single store with a good selection of amendments? google isn't really being my friend on this one.

You might check out VerdantGreen grow diary. He is in the UK (I think) and you could probably inquire within his thread (link below) about avaiable organic amendements in the UK.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=124809

Pine

 

[mad librettist]

I would not re-lime unles adding more peat.

 

[mitch_connor]

Ok cool, thanks guys!

There will be some peat in the first soil I intend to re-cycle (ingredients listed in my First post) But after that, I can't see my self adding more.

 

[habeeb]

one question, does blu mats work in peat? as wouldn't the water just roll off the top and down the side in a peat mix?