Two strains, two+ issue(s)

[silver hawaiian]

Hey guys

I'm having some issues with a couple varieties here. First up is a Headband clone I received about a month back. Quick background:

The cutting was put in rockwool back on 4/13. Has since rooted and been transplanted to soil. Roughly 3 parts FFHF to 1 part ProMix HP. Feeding has been tap water (set out overnight), molasses, EWC, and MaxiCrop 1-0-4.

Two things going on here. The bottom leaves are showing brown spotting. Separate from that is what's going on at the top.

..And you can see in that picture that it's affecting some, but not all, of the newer leaves.

ALSO, The second-newest set of leaves seems to burn and dry out/crinkle, in the middle of the leaf, even. (Not strictly from the outside --> in).

---------------------

Separate from that, I'm having some issues with a Blue Dragon cutting that won't root. It also was stuck in rockwool 4/13. Everything else cubed on 4/13 has since popped and moved on to veg. Not this guy.

The issue is the tip - seems to be "burning up," but it's been kept at ~79 degrees, domed, moist, under fluorescents, being fed water at pH ~6.5. (FWIW that's the treatment that all other cuttings/varieties received, and rooted just fine).

Any insight or input on either situation is greatly appreciated..

Thanks iCFolk! I love y'all - and if I can get some help on this, I'll love y'all a LITTLE more!

 

[BongRipkenJR.]

Tobacco Mosaic Virus?

What is your pH?

 

[MIway]

Yeah, that's the ticket... tmv... ;-)

 

[MIway]

FFHF plus Maxi right outta the gate is likely going to be 'hot', fwiw... and wouldn't be surprised if some of the bags are acidic...

Would just toss that last clone, bro... could save her, but it'l be weeks...

 

[silver hawaiian]

Good stuff MI. Had a similar conversation with the guy at the local shop. Said the same thing about the FFHF being a little dicey for cannabis. (I got it to pot my outdoor veggies in, 'til the weather and garden were ready).

But when I think of "hot," I don't picture the spotty that the Headband has, .. And the BD cutting has just been getting plain water, in a cube, .. No MC or FFHF in that equation. :/

 

[Epiphyte]

That first picture and your problems are very familiar to me....
I did a round with half promix and half happy frog..maybe even less than half HF..it went extremely well.
Then, I had to repot an AK47 (this one was more of a nute hog than other ak47s). I hardly had any soil left over so I just mixed in the HF i had left....so it was about 3 parts, maybe more of the HF and 1 part promix. I checked the run off and was getting about 1500ppm...I think some part of the runoff reading was flawed, however, it was still high). So, I thought "what the hell, the Ak is a hog, it can handle the heat." Well, it could not...I just watered with plain water for about three weeks which is something you can get away with using ffof. Long story short...my plant looked exactly like the one in the first picture and continued to get worse...it's probably a cal mag lockout problem...the first picture looks like the cal is locked out or deficient and the second picture looks like there is some nute burn and the mag is locked out.
My solution was to throw the plant away...I have never done this before but it was so bad and still so early in flower...
I'd say your best options are....
1. Flush and then hit it with a complete one part nute like PBP soil. I don't use PBP anymore do to taste reasons..however, it is as close to foolproof as it gets...and if the soil is balanced, PBP gives herb everything it needs.
2. Repot into a mix that is the opposite....1 part HF and 3 parts promix...it gives you more control...you should try and add a complete nutrient as opposed to the additives/incompletes...it provides more balanced nutrients and this is the key to prevent lockout. FFOF or roots organics (though I haven't used it) would be good options to repot in and you can be assured that the nutrient levels are balanced.

So that first pic that was like mine...it is honestly a gnarly problem that it is hard to diagnose. However, I think it is a cal deficiency. I have used molasses almost every watering as a cal/mag additive..this was without problems...I think your problem is the Happy Frog..it is weird and I will never recommend it..You seem to have a good grasp of whats going on...HF turns a good grasp on its head...it is acidic, it had high ass ppm levels, and I don't think the nutrients are balanced which is the biggest problem...
Repot and Good Luck
Phyte

 

[MIway]

But when I think of "hot," I don't picture the spotty that the Headband has, .. And the BD cutting has just been getting plain water, in a cube, .. No MC or FFHF in that equation. :/

Yeah... I expect pH issues with the soil bags, in addition to the overall nute levels (hot). And the spotting looks to be uptake issues related to the pH... that would be my interpretation... yes uptake issues, but due to the pH. Dunno for sure, but that would be my take. Also, kinda interrelated, is that it could be juiced on a certain element which is blocking another, so... I just do a general read of the condition vs an exact diagnosis of the element responsible, if that makes any sense.

Didn't think the clone was in soil, but I've had really, really slow poppers before that looked as yours do... generally has to do with some form of rot... either in the water/medium or due to the humidome being on for so long. Again, just a read based on my previous gals & situations.

Peace bro

 

[Stress_test]

If you really want to save it, I'd set that last gal in a pan w/ some plain water in it and put it in a place where it doesn't ANY direct light.
It'll have roots in a few days.

That first plant, Id be willing to bet it was cut while momma was in flower. They do take root and revert to veg, but it takes awhile and every time I've done it I run into issues getting the nutes balanced again. Once they start flowering the plants uptake changes and while it's good in flower to take in less N, it usually develops N deficiencies when it reverts back to veg.

 

[silver hawaiian]

Thanks for the input guys. Much appreciated - that's why this place is great.

I've moved the HB to a mix of FFOF and Promix.. I'm starting to see the same symptoms (the spotting - not the crinkling & burning of the leaves on top) on some of the other cuttings from this batch (all different varieties).

Any thoughts as to the clone?

It seems to be exhibiting the same symptoms as my second issue on the Headband (which was in the FFHF - the clone has just been in a cube, straight water)

..just seems to be less-durable (obviously) and more affected by it.

 

[Epiphyte]

Well, the clone is looking burnt and weird...I have used oasis cubes and rockwool, but as a soil grower I now clone in a propagation soil with beneficial organisms. This last time was my first time not using a hormone and it still worked but the ladies took longer to root...especially one variety.
So, the clone looks like it is burnt possibly due to water sitting on the leaves under an intense light. Put it in a very low light area...let it dry out but not to much before you water it again...low light can keep a plant alive while the roots work themselves out...I would not let it sit in water through.
From what it looks like, the top has some new growth doesn't it?....this is a good sign...let the clone dry out if you have kept it constantly wet....also put it off to the side not right under the light..this will buy you some time while the roots grow...I don't think it will deteriorate as quickly under a low light..
I don't recommend this but have you given it a tug to see if it has small roots?

One reason I like cloning in soil is that I don't not have to spray the clones...I just dunk them when I take the clone..Also, I only have to have the dome on two to three days...sometimes I might put it back on around day 5 or 6 if they are struggling

Is that your only blue dragon?

 

[silver hawaiian]

Epiphyte

Good to know - thanks for the reference & experience sharing.

Since yesterday, I've moved all of the stock that's vegging FROM the pots with the HF/ProMix mix, INTO pots with FFOF and ProMix, .. In doing so, I did my damndest to gingerly work off as much of the "old" soil from the roots.. I moved everything - from the pictured Headband, to the perhaps-slightly-affected Green Candy, to the looking-fine-SO-FAR Vision Cloud, .. Etc.. So that is that.

The Blue Dragon cutting is my only one - not the end of the world, but let's preserve it if we can, right?

I've moved it to a corner of the room that just gets ambient light, .. It's sitting with a clear cup over top of it (with some ventilation holes hacked into the cup). No standing water, just a moist cube.

Thanks so much guys for the prompt attention to this stuff for me.

I'll keep updated on how things progress.

 

[Epiphyte]

Also, I forget what the process is called exactly, but trimming the leaves on clones helps with transpiration (?)...I try and limit the leaf numbers and surface area...I believe this gives more energy to the roots....so if that was my clone...I would take that bottom leaf off and the cut that big one on the right in half (you know, cut the tips down). Maybe trim down the other big one also. I think sometimes clones get confused and this limits the places that need energy for new growth...

Hell one last option...I wanted to mention this earlier but I didn't believe it was good advice, in part because I have never done it but...you could just plant the clone in a solo cup with some good soil...water once...maybe with some beneficials, b1 or root stimulant at very low levels or just plain water...let it dry out and new growth on the top usually indicates there is some new growth on the bottom...I'd let the cube dry a little before you do this if you do this...
Like I said I can't recommend it but it might be a last minute option if nothing else...

Cloning is all about providing enough water to keep the plant alive, but also its about a dry(ish) period that encourages roots to grow and look for water...I told you that I leave the dome on for only two days....usually by day 5 they wilt because they start to dry out. This is when I put the down back on. This perks up the plant without me having to water...and because the soil is moderately dry, this encourages the root growth...The dome is a support system but not the system...if that make sense...

Good Luck...those look like some good strains...is the g. candy the green crack renamed? I had some blue dragon once before..it was outdoor but still killer...
Phyte

 

[compost]

PH swings is your problem.

 

[Epiphyte]

Compost, what do you mean by "swing"?

 

[silver hawaiian]

Compost may be on to something here! I had been keeping the clones watered with set-out (overnight) tap water, .. At one point, I realized that water was pH'd around 8.2ish. I started giving pH adjusted water to the clones, but then slacked off and went back to the plain old set-out ~8.2 water.

The rest of the cuttings apparently didn't mind, but that BD shore seems sensitive.

 

[compost]

Compost, what do you mean by "swing"?

The PH is changing to much for the plants. If your growing in soil you will hear that your PH should be anywhere from 6.0 to 6.7 to grow right. Whats more important then the actual number is a consistent number. One of the biggest factors in this is the change from fertilized water to normal tap water.

First start with your water. If you mix nutes and PH adjust straight tap water the PH will change a lot in the next few hours. I always leave my water out 1 day, not to evaporate the chlorine but rather let it come up to the grow room temperature. I always mix my nutes and ph adjust them about a hour before I use them and then recheck before use.

Other factors include a fertilizer build up in the soil which will mess with the PH. Certain fungus, bugs, and rot problems can all throw your PH out of whack. The PH of your water run off should be very close regardless of whether you are fertilizing them or just watering them.

The problem you are running into is the plants are young and are MUCH more sensitive to fertilizer swings. That same swing in your mom might just make the leaves have a small curl to them well it severely stunts the clones.

I use the KISS(maxibloom) fertilizer method with a few additives. Instead of giving my plants a 5gram/gallon fertilizer dose once every 3 waterings, I just give the plants 1.25 grams/ gallon every time they are watered(and in my blumat res). That way I am not trying to raise the PH of my fertilizer water and then dropping the PH of my plain water. When I use the 1.25grams/ gallon it brings my normal tap water to about 6.2 ph.

 

[silver hawaiian]

Updateroo

Updateroo

Well, I set the BD out in the corner, covered by a cup, .. Woke up this morning to roots! Great advice, thanks much, Stress_test.

The top is quite mangy lookin, but let's see how she does. I put her in a mix of FFOF and PM, back under the fluorescents..

The rest of the gang got transplanted into FFOF/PM and are all doing quite well. Thanks all!

 

[Stress_test]

Well, I set the BD out in the corner, covered by a cup, .. Woke up this morning to roots! Great advice, thanks much, Stress_test.

The top is quite mangy lookin, but let's see how she does. I put her in a mix of FFOF and PM, back under the fluorescents..

The rest of the gang got transplanted into FFOF/PM and are all doing quite well. Thanks all!

Glad to hear it buddy.

Keep us posted on their progress if you can...
I'd like to see her in full flower when she's ready and compare these pics with new when the time comes.

 

[2cents]

sounds/looks like a bit of burn from the change to this soil mix..

sometimes a nice watering then squeeze off excess moisture + trim of the dead parts of the leaves..give it a month ... plants should adjust

 

[silver hawaiian]

Here is the Blue Dragon from today. I stuck it in a partially-lit corner of the room, and had roots in a few days. Stuck her back under the T12s, and the vegetative growth just was all funked out and burned lookin' and crumbly and white and no good.

For the past few days, she's been sitting on the floor, not in the direct glow of the T12s. I top dressed with some EWC a few days back, and the crotch-y growth is lookin' good. Tip is still mangled.

The other issue I was having back yonder was with a Headband I'd just put into a bigger pot (from its party cup). I'd put it (and a few other varieties) into a mix of FFHF and Pro Mix.

After establishing that the FFHF was the likely freakout culprit, I took 'em out of the FFHF mix, shook off the soil as best I could, and put 'em in an FFOF/ProMix blend, ..

Add a top dressing of EWC, here we are today:

Headband (you can see some of the funkout in the lower leaves)

Other assorted broads (Vision Cloud, mystery #2)

Big props to all'a y'all who posted in this thread and helped me out. Stress_test, you are the MAN with your help here and your recent "WTF here?" thread.

Thanks all!