18 6 12 ferts?????

[hamstring]

I have always read that a balanced fert was best. I am using Oscomote slow release 18-6-12 this season and I am sure it works just fine not worried about that but why would you purposely do this particular ratio??

I have been a 20-20-20 guy for years so interested in the reasoning behind it and I am assuming no extra phosphorus is needed .

 

[D.S. Toker. MD]

hey hamsting.

Im a big believer in study and reading, and ive read everything i could read about fertilizer formulas. Im here to say i dont have a clue as to why they would create that formula. Formula's are confusing and seeminly irrational. If (ive read) 10-10-10 is 1 part nitro, 1part ptsh and 1part pttasium which is basically what is required to grow about any plant.. What the hell does 18-6-12 mean?? With hydro, it might be more straight forward, but in our situation we're not providing all of the nutrients, we're just augmenting whats already in the soil.

And becasue of that fact, the only way to know the exact amounts/formula you should use really requires a soil test to determine what nutrients are in the soil and which are lacking and at what ratios . Because i nor you can really conduct soil tests, and because i cant make any sense out of fertilizer formula's, ive abandoned any effort to understand the nutrient formula's and have depended entirely on observing what has worked well.

I swear by a fall or early spring application of the very osmacote you are using. I mix in a heaping capful into each hole in late fall or early spring. Because its released by temps and not rain, it doesnt get leached from the soil and just decomposes until the soil reaches 70 degrees farenheit.(although once released rain can leach it and does), I stuck my meat thermometer in the ground just yesterday and my soil temps are 64 degrees. Im transplanting late next week, so i know my plants will be in the ground for a week or so before any of those ferts are available.

That 1 application seems to serve me well until late june. I havent had to fertilize any plant until very late june, early july since i started using the fall/spring application. After that, i use water soluble nutes. Very often, its miracle grow 30-15-15. The reason i use water soluble nutes starting in july is because of that rapid preflowering growth that occurrs from mid july to mid/late august. While our plants grow 5 months or more, 50-60% of total growth occurs in a 45 day period when the plant will more than double in size. During that time i feel nitro and other nutes have to be available to capitalize on that growth. If i have a big plant growing 6" a day it needs several big doses asap. If i have an affie, she's not going to need gallons of juice so thats why i use the water soluble- it lets me instantly provide nutes when needed.

I try to avoid the plant becomming too " dark green" as that indicates too much nitro which can exacerbate fungus/mould growth and retard resin gland production.

Thats probably more than you wanted to know, but this topic is so difficult.

 

[fisher]

isnt what a plant uses
10 parts nitrogen to 1 phosphorus and similar potassium by plant
tissue annalysis?

 

[HighDesertJoe]

I also use Osmacote 18-6-12 outdoor plus Super Phosphate. the key is to get it right in the root zone. Then about every 3-4 waterings I water with a weak water soluble. I always have had GREAT results. I think having a pretty long growing season has help my situation.
Good Luck

 

[hamstring]

DS
As always thanks for the input always welcome from you.

Fisher
I have never heard that reason but that’s what i was wondering why the fert companies use these ratios you have to think they put some research into it but yet they provide no incite into why.

HDJ
Thanks for chiming in appreciate your input valuable to me as you also have some real life experience using this same ratio.

As I mentioned before I feel comfortable using the Osmcote because of all the feedback from growers like yourselves. I was reading the instructions on the 18-6-12 and how to use it in holes or seedbeds and not once does it mention adding any other amendments. That got me to thinking WHY? These companies certainly do their homework and large greenhouses use this same ratio. Thought maybe there was a well-defined reason or research to back it up. On organics ferts I understand you get what you get but man made they can do any ratio they want why do they offer all these choices you would think it would be more well defined.

Again thanks for the responses much appreciated.

 

[fisher]

hey hamstring,
in my book the soul of soil, a soil building guide, for gardeners and farmers they have
a lot of usefull info. overall they generally recomend building humus for the health of soil
but on chemical fertilizers ,if used, they do recomend the lower numbers/concentrations
saying that the higher concentrations can be harmfull, or slow release, which is i think is
what your osmocoat is. ive also never heard why companies choose the numbers they do..

 

[krk]

I try to avoid the plant becomming too " dark green" as that indicates too much nitro which can exacerbate fungus/mould growth and retard resin gland production.

In my climate thats nothing more than non sense, when a plant has good N source it must be that color, that is the color of good health. I have the same therory as silverback on heavy N...have you read his N thread?

Ham, I have personaly found no diference in the 20-20-20 and the 18-6-12 tested both many times... both excellent flowering ferts. With a wet swamp grow they cant be easier.. In a dry grow they can be a hinderence....as they wont activate...

 

[lilman]

So you guys are mixing osmocote right into the soil ?? How much do you use ? and arent you worried about it burning the roots ?? thanx guys. I know i could spend an hour researching and figure it out but im old and lazy and just spent the morning helping my daughter find easter eggs.

LM

 

[krk]

1 cup per 15 gals of promix is my useage...outside. Thoroughly mixed

 

[HighDesertJoe]

I used Osmacote for years on Ornamental plants and House Plants never once measured used it. I used it rather on the HEAVY side never did I burn ANY plants with OC.
I'm under the impression that dried bud is 90-95% N so if I'm trying to grow say 3 pounds of buds I need a little more then 3#'s of N per plant and that's how I applied OC by the coffee can full plus the Super Phosphate.
I could be wrong I might have just been lucky but I was growing monster bush this way.

 

[D.S. Toker. MD]

In my climate thats nothing more than non sense, when a plant has good N source it must be that color, that is the color of good health. I have the same therory as silverback on heavy N...have you read his N thread?

...

Dang krk, 1cup? And its not burning? The directions say a capful and ive been using a heaping capful, but a cup is like 4 capfuls! Maybe i should be useing a bit more. How much Osmacote are you other guys using per hole?

I havent read the thread Krk, but i do know that he poured on the nitro during stretch. But ive read a lot of articles and several research papers that chronicle the impact of excessive nitrogen during flowering for cannabis- and many other flowering plants.. Too much available nitrogen during flower production in any climate -indoor or out, inhibits resin gland production, elongates buds and reduces bud denstity: because the excessive nitrogen is expired through the leaves, it creates a leaf surface enviroment that is conducive to disease formation. Thats not just my opinion. Its why ALL bloom related fertilizers have reduced amounts of nitrogen in them.

I would suggest that anyone pay more attention to the big fan/shade leaves than the general color of the plant.. They are the canary in the coal mine and if you have even the slightest nitrogen deficiency, or any other problem really, you will have some yellowing of the fans. If you dont have yellow fans, you dont have defieciencies regaurdless of the color of the plant.

 

[krk]

These were all grown with 2 cups 20-20-20 osmo 30 gal swamp bins....

 

[krk]

Oh I have burned plants with osmo, 10-20 years ago the directions were diferent on the product...they wanted you to place the scoops under the rootball when transplanting.. three scoops dead plants... but mixed in whole different thing....

 

[Mr. Greengenes]

This is a tad off topic, but maybe important enough to mention here. There's some evidence that sources of hard rock phosphate (like the double and triple-phosphates with a really big middle number) contain radiation that is concentrated in trichomes of plants like spices, tobacco and cannabis. These phosporus nutrients are labled 'organic' on their packages, and are probably safe for all other consumables like root crops, veggies and fruits, but (maybe) not for plants with glandular trichomes. Here's some links;
http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/2673.html
http://www.acsa2000.net/HealthAlert/radioactive_tobacco.html
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E00E2DC1E3EF932A35751C1A9609C8B63

 

[.clunk]

Impressive results, KRK. Do you find that one application lasts the entire season, right through veg and flower?

I'll throw in my two cents, in my experience during the first ten days to two weeks of flower, when the stretch is happening I do a double dose of food, so an application of high Nitrogen veg food and also an application of high P/K flowering food.

My plants put on 50% or more of their nodes (which later become budsites) and also alot of height during this time so it makes sense that they'd need a big load of Nitrogen to get this done. After the stretch I load on the high P/K nutes but still make sure there's a little N in there as well since a bit of leaf helps "fill" out the bud more.

 

[krk]

For those who would like to scare one off by say ...it radioactive...

Here is some info...to absorb...lol

Our world is radioactive and has been since it was created. Over 60 radionuclides can be found in nature, and they can be placed in three general categories:

1. Primordial - been around since the creation of the Earth
2. Cosmogenic - formed as a result of cosmic ray interactions
3. Human produced - enhanced or formed due to human actions

Radionuclides are found in air, water and soil, and additionally in us, being that we are products of our environment. Every day, we ingest/inhale nuclides in our air we breath, in the food we eat and the water we drink. Radioactivity is common in the rocks and soil that makes up our planet, in the water and oceans, and even in our building materials and homes. It is just everywhere. There is no where on Earth that you can get away from Natural Radioactivity.


Aerial gamma-ray data can be used to quantify and describe the radioactivity of rocks and soils. The majority of the gamma-ray signal is derived from the upper 20-25 cm of surficial materials (rock or soil). A gamma-ray detector is mounted in an aircraft that is flown over an area at a certain altitude, usually 120-150 m (400-500 ft). Equivalent uranium (eU) is calculated from the counts received by the gamma-ray detector in the energy window corresponding to bismuth-214. This technique assumes that uranium and its decay products are in secular equilibrium. A contour map of eU is then produced for the the area. The same technique is used to estimate potassium (K), from the K-40 energy window, and equivalent thorium-232, from the thallium-208 energy window. Total gamma exposure can be estimated by combining the data from the potassium, uranium, and thorium data channels. The primary source for aerial radiometric data in the United States is reports of the U.S. Department of Energy's National Uranium Resource Evaluation (NURE) program of the 1970s and early 1980s. These data have been integrated into contour maps of equivalent uranium, thorium, potassium, and total gamma radioactivity exposure for the conterminous United States.

 

[HighDesertJoe]

For those who would like to scare one off by say ...it radioactive...

Here is some info...to absorb...lol

Our world is radioactive and has been since it was created. Over 60 radionuclides can be found in nature, and they can be placed in three general categories:

1. Primordial - been around since the creation of the Earth
2. Cosmogenic - formed as a result of cosmic ray interactions
3. Human produced - enhanced or formed due to human actions

Radionuclides are found in air, water and soil, and additionally in us, being that we are products of our environment. Every day, we ingest/inhale nuclides in our air we breath, in the food we eat and the water we drink. Radioactivity is common in the rocks and soil that makes up our planet, in the water and oceans, and even in our building materials and homes. It is just everywhere. There is no where on Earth that you can get away from Natural Radioactivity.


Aerial gamma-ray data can be used to quantify and describe the radioactivity of rocks and soils. The majority of the gamma-ray signal is derived from the upper 20-25 cm of surficial materials (rock or soil). A gamma-ray detector is mounted in an aircraft that is flown over an area at a certain altitude, usually 120-150 m (400-500 ft). Equivalent uranium (eU) is calculated from the counts received by the gamma-ray detector in the energy window corresponding to bismuth-214. This technique assumes that uranium and its decay products are in secular equilibrium. A contour map of eU is then produced for the the area. The same technique is used to estimate potassium (K), from the K-40 energy window, and equivalent thorium-232, from the thallium-208 energy window. Total gamma exposure can be estimated by combining the data from the potassium, uranium, and thorium data channels. The primary source for aerial radiometric data in the United States is reports of the U.S. Department of Energy's National Uranium Resource Evaluation (NURE) program of the 1970s and early 1980s. These data have been integrated into contour maps of equivalent uranium, thorium, potassium, and total gamma radioactivity exposure for the conterminous United States.

OH CRAP I LIVE IN THE HOT PINK

 

[hamstring]

Hey guys thanks for keeping the thread flowering heheheh. Like I said I have learned all I know about Osmocote from all of you guys. I have spoke to KrK and High Desert Joe and DS and you guys have educated me. It’s just one of those guy things to want to know WHY? I guess it doesn’t really matter as long as it works.

Do these big fert companies sit around and spin the big wheel and say, “ok here is the next ratio we will start selling”. Maybe a marketing tactic like NEW & Improved and then in small print it says “packaging only” because Oscomote also sells 20-20-20.

What I thought was that it had to do with making one fert ratio that worked on a wider variety of plants maybe 20-20-20 isn’t the best for some flowering plants hell I don’t know but it would be nice to hear if someone did.

 

[HighDesertJoe]

OC Classic 8-9 mo. 18-6-12 is for use in nursery, foliage and greenhouse production, container gardens, interiorscapes and landscapes. Since it has a 3:1:2 ratio this makes it a industry standard.
Since I use it outdoors in just about pure desert sand (95%) with very little added organic matter and it's a heavy feeding flower plant I feel the Super Phosphate is needed. Plus the weak water soluble nutes I use every 3-4 watering's I'm doing it for added Micro nutes.
It's worked for me I'll be sticking with it till I learn otherwise.