Anyone Pump Air into Their Soil?

[rrog]

I appreciate the nice detailed reply.

... so basically, there is no point in forcing air into the bottom of your soil due to gravity and only a small part of the water being "oxygenated."

I don't agree, as I've stated earlier. I'm tempted to by a meter to prove a point: http://www.milwaukeetesters.com/MW600.html

I wager that bubblers pushing 160 to 300 gallons of air per hour (up to 5 gallons a minute) into a half gallon pretty much assures O2 saturation for a given temp.

you might be better off using smartpots. cheaper, no noise, no mechanical breakdown, clogs, or digging out airstones out of soil.

Other than the cost of the pump, which isn't unsubstantial, the rest is super cheap. If there's a pump failure, then all I have is a standard soil grow. No harm, no foul. There are no clogs and the stones just fall out after the plants are done.

 

[mad librettist]

i wonder if gravity has anything to do with oxygen uptake in organic soil. i mean... if gravity pulls the water down and the top always dries first... then the water on the bottom takes the space of air. so basically, there is no point in forcing air into the bottom of your soil due to gravity and only a small part of the water being "oxygenated."

click on the link in my sig. Gravity pulls water down, and your medium fights it or doesn't. the diagram I posted above is perched water with the same medium over different size containers. THe perched water is related to the medium's property, so it doesn't change regardless of pot size.

In the OBBT scenario, the medium probably does hold perched water, and that water table begins after the drainage layer ends. You have a big zone that is hydroponic with soe organic medium on top.

small particles with 50% drainage amendment holds the same perched water as the same soil without the large particles.

Smart pots do not eliminate perched water AFAIK.

 

[guineapig]

Yes it is a hassle but it can be done....

You can try burying the same laser-drilled tubing that they use for CO2 supplementation....this tubing has thousands of microscopic pores that are only large enough for a gas to escape....you can plug this into an air-pump (or pure oxygen if you are in a laboratory setting) and then you will have plenty of oxygen running through your soil mixture.....this is the best way because the soil is not disturbed to such an extent that the roots are damaged....you will have to use more water because your soil will dry out more quickly, but I believe that the increase in water vapor actually makes it easier to absorb the water.....

You could even link up multiple containers to one air-pump as long as you had enough CO2 tubing.....

The pH changes in the soil should also be taken into consideration.....the increased oxygen in the soil should raise the pH, but if you are giving an acidic nutrient solution it should balance itself out (in theory).....however, the pH really should be seriously considered because we do not want nutrient lock-out at any phase in plant development......

It would be nice to see this type of system on the market......it combines the benefits of organic soil with the accelerated growth of a hydroponic system.....it is a new way of growing that puts emphasis on nutrient absorption in the rhizosphere.....

kind regards from guineapig

 

[jaykush]

Sorry for being in the wrong forum. I figured I was using organic soil, so this was the place.

running air into a layer of water under/in a highly aerated mix doesn't sound like soil to me, sorry.

Hmmm. So you'd say this is actually compromising a normal soil grow. For the life of me I don't see how that's possible. Essentially I'm just watering the soil from the bottom.

at what cost? why have a pump running all the time when you don't need one. build your soil right and it will breathe as much as it wants/needs. i wouldn't say compromising biology but in the long run your not benefiting much for all the effort your doing. specially if you have to pay the bills. you can easily bottom water without forced air and get the same results.

try thinking minimal inputs, maximum outputs.

 

[dekab247]

nothing to add

nothing to add

Nothing to add to the discussion at hand. Yet a little insight maybe.

The site I visit the most. Well there have been issues with people arguing so much. Who is right, who is stupid, who is wrong.

So for me it makes me happy to come in, and read a thread like this. People disagree with others, but actually trying, and supporting the thoughts they have. SHowing proof, and not jumping on someone for thinking otherwise.

Kudos to you all. It is the first thread I have read in this way that I have enjoyed. I hope to see more info come about on the subject at hand...D

 

[rrog]

...this tubing has thousands of microscopic pores ....you can plug this into an air-pump... and then you will have plenty of oxygen running through your soil mixture.....this is the best way because the soil is not disturbed to such an extent that the roots are damaged....you will have to use more water because your soil will dry out more quickly, but I believe that the increase in water vapor actually makes it easier to absorb the water.....

The pH changes in the soil should also be taken into consideration.....the increased oxygen in the soil should raise the pH, but if you are giving an acidic nutrient solution it should balance itself out (in theory).....however, the pH really should be seriously considered because we do not want nutrient lock-out at any phase in plant development......

It would be nice to see this type of system on the market......it combines the benefits of organic soil with the accelerated growth of a hydroponic system.....it is a new way of growing that puts emphasis on nutrient absorption in the rhizosphere.....

That was my speculation. If I've demonstrated nothing else it's that I can ask a million questions. That can reduce others patience, and I'm sorry about that, but my obsession isn't without its merits. I looked into this quite a bit before taking the plunge, just as I'm asking / inquiring now. Not that it particularly matters, but I also have dual BS degrees in bio and chem. The only relevance to that is that what I do not know now I have the capacity to grasp. And I tend to take nothing at face value despite the author. I need corroboration and data.

 

[rrog]

Nothing to add to the discussion at hand. Yet a little insight maybe.

The site I visit the most. Well there have been issues with people arguing so much. Who is right, who is stupid, who is wrong.

So for me it makes me happy to come in, and read a thread like this. People disagree with others, but actually trying, and supporting the thoughts they have. SHowing proof, and not jumping on someone for thinking otherwise.

Kudos to you all. It is the first thread I have read in this way that I have enjoyed. I hope to see more info come about on the subject at hand...D

Nice of you to chime in with that reality check. While I may (currently) disagree with some here, I come here because I believe this is ground zero for these discussions. JayKush, MadL and the gang may have to bite their tongue to keep from lambasting me, but I am ever so grateful for their opinions and knowledge.

A very smart man once said "diversity is the buffer for human ignorance."

 

[RipVanWeed]

Hey Rrog,

I'm sure you remember me,

I tried OBBT 5g buckets. I think I was running 8 to 12 at the same time. I found the method inconsistant, boom and bust microherd cycling in the medium. I'm not experienced enough to cope with any unnecessary curveballs.

Zeroing in on Cootstyle Soil.

Still maintain the ability to stress my girls via trying too hard.



I'm a natural born thinkertinkerer,



adjuster for optimizing performance.

I ran a large web printing press for 30 yrs where constant monitering, scrutinizing, and adjusting was required.



Now I aim for simplicity, and work on leaving well enough alone.

Thank you for bringing up this discussion as we can learn from the more experienced growers.



Good to see you around again. Respect,

 

[rrog]

Rip, how ya been? Thanks for stopping by. I recall you moving away from the method. Can't blame you. Mileage may vary, but I had a great grow last time and I wonder if it was the extra air I use. I sure pump a lot through, and I found great consistency with respect to moisture and water consumption.

What I cannot say is if the high volume of air I'm pumping is any better than a soil grow. I have no basis of reference. I'll freely admit that. I sure like it better than my chem hydro.

But I have all the parts and pieces and a good experience so I figured I'd try again and also ask if anyone else is doing similar.

 

[geopolitical]

I appreciate the reply GeoP. Your system had no pump?

No, I said it required a BIG pump. I can't remember the model but it had one hell of a rating and wasn't exactly a cheap unit. If I hadn't already had it laying around I wouldn't have attempted this I think.

Like I said though, too much of a pain, really minimal gains and really, who knows if the gains were from the air or just from the extra attention the plants were getting.

My gut is it was just the extra attention.

 

[Mountain]

I remember seeing a thread like this on OG over 5 years ago. Nothing new in this thread.

 

[habeeb]

I like keeping it as simple as possible..

don't see this in my future, as I say, what benefit over a pot of soil that grows a plant just fine..

 

[rrog]

I'm thinking of doing three 5 gallon pails with the air, and three with standard soil. If the soil was even close to the air, I'd bag that air in a minute. I like simple if simple is close to as good as it gets.

What I'm not hearing is that there is not some well known benefit to this. Not even close. And I can't disregard that. Can't disregard the discussions from some very impressive soil scientists here on this thread.

Not to be quite so helpless, but is there a thread or sticky with a nice soil regimen that I could model?

 

[mad librettist]

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=158911

 

[dekab247]

benefits

benefits

Some may say no benefits to this method, and some will. Yet as I said it is nice to see a thread like this. yet a definate benefit is to get others thinking, and maybe accepting views they never thought they would. Maybe a newbie reads the thread, and gets interested in certain ideas, or takes something away from it that helps them in thier grow. Either way I am glad I came out of the shadows to post what I did. As I have made a new friend to speak to when I visit, and share ideas. Even if they aren't the same. This hobby we never stop learning. Cheers to all...D

P.S. nice to chat rrog...D

 

[habeeb]

^ nothing wrong with thinking..

but I'm sure for the model approach, 96% will want it simple as possible.. the others are just running circles because there bored..

I can speak fro experience. I use to want to super pump my soil, super juice my plant, but what I found out was that plants like is simple.. and that works for me.. I am a perfectionist at heart, but these guys have shown me how to calm way down, and I don't mean when I'm high, I mean when I'm in the garden. I'm more laid back and my plants are better then ever..

I'm not doubting change in the way we garden or products that will come out.. they come out all the time, but I've yet to see something rock the way a plant is grown, yet to be seen..... my vision is a super controller that waters and monitors the plant with individual nutrient tubes that it can draw from and feed the plant with super high tech sensors... but at the end of the day, I like watering my plant by hand, what fun would it be to garden if you just stood back?

 

[mad librettist]

but at the end of the day, I like watering my plant by hand, what fun would it be to garden if you just stood back?

blumats are fun... you can still water

 

[187020]

Anyone Pump Air into Their Soil?

there's better places to pump air

 

[jaykush]

there's better places to pump air

like a nice big batch of ACT!

 

[Mountain]

like a nice big batch of ACT!

Yeah that. If you're getting benefits from pumping air into your soil then your soil formula probably sucks and/or you're overwatering. If you wanna get fancy with O2 stuff in soil look at calcium peroxide or H202 which you regulate by monitoring the ORP value of the solution.

As your pot/medium dries O2 levels rise. When you water O2 levels drop and ORP regulation helps in that regard...and no you won't kill your microlife.