So I've yet to hear why you think you need to add gypsum to your manufactured soil, other then that you read it somewhere.
Dolomite lime w/ organics
- Thread starter Zarezhu
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So I've yet to hear why you think you need to add gypsum to your manufactured soil, other then that you read it somewhere.
Zarezhu
Member
Just because of how awesome a soil conditioner it really is. From everybodys advice on these forums, to the limited horticultural knowledge I've gained from a few college courses, to random university studies I've read on the internet, I've concluded that it would be beneficial to my crop in such small applications (half dose is what, like 5 cups per plant), without having any negative effects.
If you believe otherwise, please let me know because I personally dont have experience with it, just some knowledge. And I'm always happy to hear advice from more experienced people.
Anyways, I have my bottomless pots in the ground, with a capacity of about 150 gallons up top. The ground directly under it is just native soil that has been rototilled with added compost. It's very high in clay, doesn't got very great soil texture.
Maybe I'll just add all the gypsum to the native soil and to help condition it, give better texture for all of the roots that DO grow through the 18" of potting soil. And just add the DL to both.
If you believe otherwise, please let me know because I personally dont have experience with it, just some knowledge. And I'm always happy to hear advice from more experienced people.
Anyways, I have my bottomless pots in the ground, with a capacity of about 150 gallons up top. The ground directly under it is just native soil that has been rototilled with added compost. It's very high in clay, doesn't got very great soil texture.
Maybe I'll just add all the gypsum to the native soil and to help condition it, give better texture for all of the roots that DO grow through the 18" of potting soil. And just add the DL to both.
Gypsum does have a nice effect on soil consistency, but it's temporary.
It's good in twinkies!
It's good in twinkies!
I dont use gypsum at all. Its unnecessary. It will not add anything to your yield or quality. We can only tell you our experience with it. For me I would spend that money on something else that would benefit the grow.
Already did. Now if you are trying to condition native soil outdoors and gypsum is required then go for it. But unless you have the worst soil, you'd be better off adding proper amendments that over time would change the profile characteristics of the native soil.
I hate using gypsum. I've done so by the hundreds of tons over the years. It's a quick fix that doesn't not last long and locks you into the use of gypsum forever. Treats the symptom and not the problem.
Zarezhu
Member
For sure, I can dig it. I only added the gypsum into the native soil, which is high in clay and very clumpy, and lime to the potting soil.
It was a HELL of an experience mixing all the soil and building the pots. Like 4 of us guys out there drinking beers and working on a HUGE vegetable garden and sometimes they helped me out with my pot garden. Used rolls of field fencing and landscape fabric to fashion 4' x 18" pots above the ground, they look so much bigger than I expected them to.
Per plant we had maybe roughly 14 cubic feet of potting soil, 2 of pumice, 2 of worm castings, about 3cf of peat moss, and one 50lb bag of dolomite split between the 6 plants. The potting soil is already rich(tested for NPK 2 days ago) and I'll probably test it again before I plant.
Got the clones vegging under 24/0 right now and in roughly 2 weeks they'll get put in the ground with supplemental lights keeping them at 18/6 so they get a good 3 solid months of veg
EDIT:
Them folks were telling me that the potting soil (they used a few bags for their clones out of the EZ cloner) is hot and it was stressing out the little clones and that's why they were kinda wilting and not thriving all that much. It should be fine with plants that were vegged to fill out a 1g or 3g bucket right? I'm just hoping my whole mix isnt too hot now.
It was a HELL of an experience mixing all the soil and building the pots. Like 4 of us guys out there drinking beers and working on a HUGE vegetable garden and sometimes they helped me out with my pot garden. Used rolls of field fencing and landscape fabric to fashion 4' x 18" pots above the ground, they look so much bigger than I expected them to.
Per plant we had maybe roughly 14 cubic feet of potting soil, 2 of pumice, 2 of worm castings, about 3cf of peat moss, and one 50lb bag of dolomite split between the 6 plants. The potting soil is already rich(tested for NPK 2 days ago) and I'll probably test it again before I plant.
Got the clones vegging under 24/0 right now and in roughly 2 weeks they'll get put in the ground with supplemental lights keeping them at 18/6 so they get a good 3 solid months of veg
EDIT:
Them folks were telling me that the potting soil (they used a few bags for their clones out of the EZ cloner) is hot and it was stressing out the little clones and that's why they were kinda wilting and not thriving all that much. It should be fine with plants that were vegged to fill out a 1g or 3g bucket right? I'm just hoping my whole mix isnt too hot now.
TACOE
Member
What kinda potting soil? U didn't tell u's application rates of the amendments. And u said something about blood and bone in a post but not in the original post
I'm sure ull be fine. But don't put such freshly rooted clones in there. Ur soil is for growing some serious plants all season. Don't treat it like some Reggie garden soil
I'm sure ull be fine. But don't put such freshly rooted clones in there. Ur soil is for growing some serious plants all season. Don't treat it like some Reggie garden soil
Here's more information on gypsum,I'm not here to argue with "professional" farmer's,just passing on some information from CC.
IC Mag edited Quote, "Let's look at what gypsum is - Calcium Sulfate meaning that it contains Calcium (Ca++) in it's elemental form - same form found in Dolomite Lime vs. Calcium Carbonate found in limestone, oyster shell powder, poultry shells. The 'Sulfate' means that it contains elemental Sulphur (S) which is in every living thing on this planet. Literally.
So some say that they use 'sulfate of potash' as the source of Potassium (Potash) - fair enough. The term 'sulfate' once again refers to elemental Sulfur. Sulfate of Potash is a mined product from ancient ocean deposits. As is 'sulfate of potash magnesia' and here the 'magnesia' refers to its Magnesium (M++) content. You and I call this 'K-MAG' or any of it's other names. Some promote,very often, the use Sulfate of Potash which is simply K-MAG without the Magnesium.
I can tell you this that in the organic agriculture world, gypsum is ALWAYS part of soil amending. It's generally applied every other year and if you're growing acid-loving plants like blueberries you would probably amend each year. Look at any legitimate organic agriculture site and while 'liming' in general is held in utter disdain by purists (like me), the judicious use of gypsum and a Calcium Carbonate source (I prefer oyster shell powder @ $10.50 for 50#) because Calcium Carbonate (CaCO3) has a molecular structure of Calcium, Carbon and 3 Oxygen atoms. Oxygen just 'might be helpful' in a soil where aerobic conditions are the main goal, right? Carbon is the base of all life forms on this planet. Look at the molecular structure of almost any living thing and it contains Carbon. Period.
When the microbes breakdown the molecular bond in gypsum, i.e. freeing the Calcium from the Sulfur, in this process the Sulfur releases 'Carbonic Gas' (Carbon) which CAN be used by the soil's micro herd to push the pH down as 'instructed' by the plant/root exudes. Once again plants control the opera as it were/is."
CC
IC Mag edited Quote, "Let's look at what gypsum is - Calcium Sulfate meaning that it contains Calcium (Ca++) in it's elemental form - same form found in Dolomite Lime vs. Calcium Carbonate found in limestone, oyster shell powder, poultry shells. The 'Sulfate' means that it contains elemental Sulphur (S) which is in every living thing on this planet. Literally.
So some say that they use 'sulfate of potash' as the source of Potassium (Potash) - fair enough. The term 'sulfate' once again refers to elemental Sulfur. Sulfate of Potash is a mined product from ancient ocean deposits. As is 'sulfate of potash magnesia' and here the 'magnesia' refers to its Magnesium (M++) content. You and I call this 'K-MAG' or any of it's other names. Some promote,very often, the use Sulfate of Potash which is simply K-MAG without the Magnesium.
I can tell you this that in the organic agriculture world, gypsum is ALWAYS part of soil amending. It's generally applied every other year and if you're growing acid-loving plants like blueberries you would probably amend each year. Look at any legitimate organic agriculture site and while 'liming' in general is held in utter disdain by purists (like me), the judicious use of gypsum and a Calcium Carbonate source (I prefer oyster shell powder @ $10.50 for 50#) because Calcium Carbonate (CaCO3) has a molecular structure of Calcium, Carbon and 3 Oxygen atoms. Oxygen just 'might be helpful' in a soil where aerobic conditions are the main goal, right? Carbon is the base of all life forms on this planet. Look at the molecular structure of almost any living thing and it contains Carbon. Period.
When the microbes breakdown the molecular bond in gypsum, i.e. freeing the Calcium from the Sulfur, in this process the Sulfur releases 'Carbonic Gas' (Carbon) which CAN be used by the soil's micro herd to push the pH down as 'instructed' by the plant/root exudes. Once again plants control the opera as it were/is."
CC
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I use Aggrene liquid lime...5 ml/gal of soil at transplant oughta do ya good for the whole time...
I know of a very large blueberry farmer (4,000 acres) that has/is moved away from gypsum and is now using fermented ewc concentrated teas. This has increased his uptake of nutrients and is slowly changing his soil characteristics. I've had ranches in Ducor CA. where the soil was so hard pan that the only economical way to get water penetration was with continuous use of gypsum with every irrigation. I just don't like the product if I can fix the problem in a more long term way.
But I'm with you in that it will not have any adverse effects and does the job in the short term.
I've had great success with the 3-way lime mix with my indoor recycled mix.
It's painless,IME why not add another component that can effectively work for us.
I would suggest to a newb that they not try anything unless they learn about it first,or do isolated experiments on a couple plants and see what happens.
CC1
It's painless,IME why not add another component that can effectively work for us.
I would suggest to a newb that they not try anything unless they learn about it first,or do isolated experiments on a couple plants and see what happens.
CC1
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Zarezhu
Member
@tacoe - yeah I was going to buy 4 or 5 bags (16lbs each) of organic foods such as blood and bone meal, crab meal, feather meal, alfalfa meal, etc, I just cashed out on all the money I had yesterday so I didn't really have a chance to get the extra amendments in.
I did heavily water the pots though, and in a weeks time I'm gonna go back and give it another thorough mixing and watering. Maybe that would be a good time to add in all the meals.
I'm not quite sure I understand what happens when lime and gypsum are mixed? They turn acidic? So the buffering potential of the lime is negated? Or am I reading that wrong?
About my potting soil- it's Kellogg's Patio Plus. I don't really know how MUCH worm castings or guano or kelp meal or chicken manure they have mixed in already, but I ran an NPK test and N was adequate with high amounts of P and K
I did heavily water the pots though, and in a weeks time I'm gonna go back and give it another thorough mixing and watering. Maybe that would be a good time to add in all the meals.
I'm not quite sure I understand what happens when lime and gypsum are mixed? They turn acidic? So the buffering potential of the lime is negated? Or am I reading that wrong?
About my potting soil- it's Kellogg's Patio Plus. I don't really know how MUCH worm castings or guano or kelp meal or chicken manure they have mixed in already, but I ran an NPK test and N was adequate with high amounts of P and K
Zarezhu
Member
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=2859871&postcount=78
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=3281054&postcount=251
These are very good reads (the second one especially) on the use of calcium (gypsum primarily) in soil. Made me change my mind, I might have to mix in some of that gypsum after all.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=3281054&postcount=251
These are very good reads (the second one especially) on the use of calcium (gypsum primarily) in soil. Made me change my mind, I might have to mix in some of that gypsum after all.
Dolomite limes calcium is bonded to the magnesium. This means that it takes longer for the cal and mag to be broken down and made available. Why do I use it,because it will break down over time as I recycle my soil,and it seems to work as a ph buffer despite the molecular bond...that I can't tell you why.
Oyster shell calcium is immediately available.
Oyster shell calcium is immediately available.
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