passive plant killer

[jjfoo]

jjfoo....
130 oz / 1000 gal

1.3 oz /1 gal

I assume you are not saying 130oz/1000gal == 1.3/oz /gal, but are purpsfully making it stronger, but then you don't get the same K number as the jacks sheet, due to rounding, but I'm not going to split hairs)

So actual available PPM:

NH4 = 49 ppm
HPO4 = 118 X .436 = 51.4
(K+) = 254 X .83 = 210.82

I agree, with this, after adding calnit you get 150 51 215 (peters says 215 you say 210, I don't care about this discrepency, but there should really be no discrpensy,

now adjust that the use the NPK math and you get

3-2-5, do you agree? I think we may actually agree

All, I'm saying is jack's and cal nit mixed as directed is 3-2-5, this is my only point. I am thinking my plants could use a little more N. I am in the process of getting info from peters as to their recommendations on adding more cal nit.


If anyone is saying it is 3-1-4, I just want to see their math on how they got there from the 150 52 215 (elemental) (on the jacks info sheet) because I want to agree on facts. MOre importantly If I'm wrong I want to know why.

After doing the math so many times, I am very confident peters will tell me it is 3-2-5.

 

[delta9nxs]

hi, jj! i'm sorry you are getting frustrated over this. you are right about the 3-1-4 ratio being just an observation on my part. i thought 150-52-215 looked real close to 3-1-4. it still does.

but if the ratio turns out to be 3-2-5 that's ok with me too. i won't change a thing either way. i'll still mix just exactly as i always do because the plants look great. my plants look better with jack's than any other fert i've ever used.

yes, i'm interested in what the people at the lab have to say. please report it when you find out.

again, sorry if this has caused you any problems.

d9

 

[desertsquirrel]

I didn't put in the last 0 when i typed it, but i did the math correctly. SOrry for the confusion, i know how frustrating this can be.

That being said, i think your confusion has to do with guaranteed analysis vrs actual available. In the guaranteed analysis, all forms of each element are included.

So, for example, 12% P on the label means that there is 120 ppm of P in the form of P2O5 (in this case). However, since plants can only uptake P in the form of HPO4(--), and 43.6% of P2O5 oxidizes into HPO4, you multiply 120 by .436 which = 52.32 Available P.

Likewise, K is supplyed as K2O (in this case) but only available as K(+). So 26% k is 254 ppm K2O X .83 = 211.

Here is the math again in case it helps...


130 oz / 1000 gal
3705 g / 3785 l

3705000 mg / 3785 l = 979 ppm

N 979 X .05 = 48.95
P 979 X .12 = 117.48
K 979 X .26 = 254.54

N 49+ 101 = 150
P 118 X .436 = 51
K 254.54 X .83 = 211

Actual available PPM:
N 150
P 51
K 211

Or 3-1-4

 

[daggerinmyback]

Good Jeebus!

Why all the numbers, it works flawlessly, NOW ON WITH THE BUD PORN!!! LMAO jk

 

[jjfoo]

Good Jeebus!

Why all the numbers, it works flawlessly, NOW ON WITH THE BUD PORN!!! LMAO jk

I like to understnd things... it is usually a good thing.

It may be seem that I am over complicating things, but I am one who values theory a lot.

when you say it works flawlessly, what are you comparing it to? If we all had this take we'd still be using steam engines. This might not be a bad thing, but pushing the state of the art is something that will always be done and I think should be.

 

[jjfoo]

Actual available PPM:
N 150
P 51
K 211

Or 3-1-4

the problem I see is that the NPK is not based on the PPM values for P and K. so you don't simply take the ratio of avaialbe N, available, P and available K.

I think we should simply agree to disagree for now. I'll get back to you when I talk to someone at peter's lab.

I'd be just as happy to understand why I'm wrong as to be correct. Thanks again for taking the time to post as much as you have.

 

[daggerinmyback]

comparing it to the botanicare nutrient line which had swings in ph and everyother possibility of mixing issues precipitate forming and other expensive things needed

and I do too but sometimes less thought is easier and I never cared as long as it burns clean with minimal flush and a few ice baths before chop

call em and ask for the lab and ask why and etc... they engineered this for the "small scale indoor growers needs" as they said to me and its been 1/8th as expensive and works easier without need of pH adjusters or checking and Ive beaten the PPK system to a pulp and it just keeps on going ...


but I would like to know but I do know it beats out the humboldt nutes as well and a few other primo lines Ive used too

 

[desertsquirrel]

glad to help jjfoo. i hope you find what your looking for. please keep us updated.

 

[jjfoo]

dissolving salts

dissolving salts

delta,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you say that jack's dissolve instantly in water. I assume you are sure there are no undissolved salts in the bottom of the tank. What do you mean by instantly? I mix mine in RO water that is about 75 deg F. It can take 30 seconds or so to dissolve most of the powder and maybe a few minutes to have it all gone.

In my experience they don't dissolve instantly if you define instantly as a time period so small you don't really notice.

Now the Yara brand cal nit dissolves in a much shorter time, but I still wouldn't say instantly.

Do you dissolve them in hot water?

 

[daggerinmyback]

I add jacks mix it in and let it sit 20 min (tiny bits need to dissolve and take a few min) than the calc nit at room temp for both but it is fast to me ... but theres 90% of the jacks in in less than a minute for me

just saying Ive used stuff I had to let dissolve for an hour then mix in another part but it was a while back and cause a ton of lock outs ...

 

[delta9nxs]

jj, ro water at about 80f, 360 ppm jack's at the .5 conversion, 500 gph pump circulating plus a few vigorous strokes with the boat paddle. at first i get a little bit of white crystalline looking material in the bottom but within seconds it is dissolved. i then add the calcinit and it is truly instant. but really, what i was thinking about when i said "instant" was having to stir the shit out of maxibloom for 10 min to get it dissolved.

 

[jjfoo]

ok, I come from a background of using liquid nutes, like GH

I mix up about 30 gal of water with a 1100 gph centrifugal pump (a cheap aquarium pump).

 

[delta9nxs]

i thought i would put up a few pics for no reason at all.

the first is a plant that has been in veg 4 weeks. it's 32". the first 2 weeks it was on a 20/4 light regime and the last 2 8/4-8/4. the plant was split in the middle away from the light by breaking branches at the stem to change their angle. i'm putting it into flower tomorrow.

the rest of the pics are of a plant i'll be whacking tomorrow. it was vegged 5 weeks using 20/4. also split in the middle during veg. it is also the first plant in a 3.5 gal container.

for anyone new reading this i want to add that this plant was grown with jack's hydroponic special and calcium nitrate at 600 ppm or ec 1.2 for life. no ph adjusters or other products were used.

editing to add that the bud shots are on different sides of the plant.

d9

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

When I grow up...

 

[MedScientist]

Beautiful!

 

[delta9nxs]

hey, dmoose! haven't heard from you in a while. wassup?

you all may recall last week i had to buy the botanicare cocogro bricks as my local grow store stopped stocking the atami.

well, the cocogro holds too much water and doesn't have enough air porosity on it's own. i did the porosity test done by the home gardener earlier in the thread and it was barely 20%.

i ended up amending it with rice hulls and turface to the tune of 3 parts cocogro to one part each of the rice hulls and turface. subsequent porosity test gave about 35% air porosity with great water holding capacity.

you cannot compact this mix. you can squeeze it into a clump but it falls apart again as soon as you release it.

the cocogro does not seem to contain much salt. after hydrating it i checked it for dissolved solids using the 1-1.5 rhp method and got 253 ppm. my tap water that day was around 170 so i only got about 80 ppm of something. not bad.

i pretreated the mix with approx ec 2 or 1000 ppm jack's and calcium nitrate. i have a plant in it for a week and it is showing no signs of the initial cation exchange display.

i mentioned that i was playing around with mixes again and my original intent was to find a mix that i can put together locally. i'm still working on it. the rice hulls and turface are proven in many applications now and i predict you'll be seeing big bags of rice hulls in the grow stores soon.

turface is everywhere at turf supply stores and rice hulls are being used as premium horse bedding. i think pine bark fines mixed with these substances will grow the hell out of weed.

i paid 18 bucks for a 55 lb bale of rice hulls. turface is 10 dollars a bag and pine bark fines are cheap at local landscape suppliers.

i just need the time to experiment a little.*99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999+

the last sentence was written by my cat, miss piggy.

d9

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

Rice hulls eventually degrade into available silica? Right? Huh? Right?

My primary local sources only offer up a finely ground coco brick. I need to get around to either ordering something more specific, or start amending for porosity.

Right? Huh? Right?

---

Damn it, I've had too much again.

I'm going to my corner until I can behave like a growed-up.

 

[delta9nxs]

"Damn it, I've had too much again."

are you sure it was too much? maybe it was too little. i think you should have some more. i want some too. what is it again?

rice hulls are an oddity in the plant world. almost 20% silicon dioxide. the highest silica content occurring in the plant world. because of this, it does not break down much over the course of a grow. turface is approx 6%. i don't think either one of them will give off much free silicon but just mere contact with the roots seems to be beneficial.

almost forgot to say that i consider 30% air porosity to be a minimum and 40% is probably too much.

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

Look how artistic my composition skills are:

 

[delta9nxs]

"Look how artistic my composition skills are:"

so that's what they are calling it now. 5th week of flower?