Brand new system, NFT straight to 12/12, which nutrients?

[Scrogerman]

Canna Aqua is a universal formulation & should be used with a "Mid-Range" water hardness 'Only', it needs those carbonates for PH buffering & should not be used with either Very Hard or Very Soft water. The mix of RO to tap will give you this mid range water hardness & therefore your PH will behave/buffer. Using RO with Cal-Mag is doing exactly the same thing, you have control over the base carbonates.

Going on Bigtokes numbers you should be able to work out what starting/base alkalinity you require. lets take a look:
0 - 4 dH, 0 - 70 ppm : very soft
4 - 8 dH, 70 - 140 ppm : soft
8 - 12 dH, 140 - 210 ppm : medium hard
12 - 18 dH, 210 - 320 ppm : fairly hard
18 - 30 dH, 320 - 530 ppm : hard
higher : liquid rock (Lake Malawi and Los Angeles, CA)

So you want neither soft nor hard, Mid range would be about 150ppm's to 200ppms, id go for 160ppms & see how you get on. Its not soft nor hard. Im pretty sure Canna rep's recommend the midrange alkalinity with Aqua, why i brought it up in the first place.

I will do a search & even go on the Canna website to see what i can find on it.

You see why i recommended 'Ionic' now Ursus? much simplier, & with his RO unit he could of used either SW or HW formulas, there both great formulas, much easier for people new to hydro imo.

save the OP a fk load of PH buffering fking about hassle! frenzy would of been running around like a headless chicken with RO alone. You got a funny PH for such hard water bro, its usually a little higher with Hard water iirc.
You still may have to use PH up, ill recommend getting some Liquid Silicon, even though Aqua contains Si, its a good PH up & you dont need alot of it, im pretty sure its compatible adding in a little extra.

Nice to see your taking notes too frenzy, thats the way to roll bro. I write everything down, just takes a couple o minutes & can save a load of re-working out.

As a side note maybe i should of used 'GH'-General Hardness & not 'Kh' Carbonate Hardness for the purpose of explaining myself. just refer to Bigtokes thread bro, he has a much better grasp on it than i.

G'Luck man!

 

[Scrogerman]

Try 60% RO 40% tap & 70% RO to 30% tap or 50/50 like Ursus says, & see where your numbers are then.

I run Canna lines like this. 1/4 strength to 1/3rd strength to 1/2 strength, 2/3rds & so on, through the growth phases, you can tweak EC as you go(up or down), but if you look at it like that, it might serve you a little better, make it easier for you.
(Max strength is 'always' the recommendation on the back of the bottle, ie-20mls per 10 litres etc, unless otherwise stated)

Small plants will want 1/4 strength(approx)in NFT/Hydro with an EC of around 0.6-0.8, PH 5.5-5.8. match you numbers with the chart on the reverse of the bottle & please go to the Canna website, check their Calculator, pretty usefull!

http://www.canna.com/

Im not much good at chemistry but i endevour to learn. just its important you match your nute line to your water, your less likely to have PH(&other) issues then, this is my main point. A stable solution is what your after.

G'Luck!

 

[Scrogerman]

From the Canna website:
•The EC of Aqua Vega dissolved in (tap) water varies between 1.1 - 1.9 mS (= the solution EC + the water EC).

http://www.canna-uk.com/aqua_vega_directions

So what Canna are saying here is(as above), is at Max strength your EC will vary between 1.1 - 1.9 mS(millisiemens), this should give you a good idea of what 1/4 strength numbers would look like.(EC 0.4-0.6 approx), with this in mind you'll be able to work out exactly how much RO to tap to mix.

As you can see its designed to be used with Tap. This is for Buffering(PH), without a doubt. As its a universal formula, its midrange water hardness your looking for. You could use RO alone but you'd have to add Cal-Mag.(not nessasary)

G'Luck man!

 

[frenzybud]

Wow.. lots of great info guys..
My water, as mentioned before, has an EC of 0,46 (1,0 EC is approx. 550 ppm, right?)

To make it easier I set my RO water EC/ppm to exactly 0,0 (it's 0,02 EC)
I calculated this: 0,46(EC) x 550(ppm) = 253 ppm and then divided with 2 = 126,5 ppm (this is my EC/ppm of 50% tap and 50% RO water mixed.)

This would mean that I would have to use 70% tap water and 30% RO water.

This would make my ppm end up at 177, just above the 160 ppm you suggested Scrogerman.

I fully understand why I need the buffering capacity, but I just hate all the extra ppm in my hydro-tank, it makes added nutrients along the way much more difficult.

Should I really go for 70% tap and 30% RO ?

 

[Scrogerman]

Or use Cal-Mag, yeah i would, Try that ratio see how you go. If you look at Canna'a recs at full strength(2mpl, im sure it used to be 2.5? but nevermind), 1.1-1.9mS, so 1.9mS is its recommended Max Strength with ya tap water EC added. Just keep it under that limit & within the range, id prolly shoot for between the 2 points(1.5/1.6mS), thats mixed at full strength 2mpl, ie, Nute EC + Water EC = 1.6mS, then break it down into 1/8ths & 1/4's from there, makes it simple adding 1/8ths as the plants require it.

But yeah, ive never tried to run Aqua with RO alone i have to say, but its certainly not designed to be run with RO alone, i can tell you that much, you never know it might work, but id say your PH would Dance like a bitch even though Aqua itself is buffered. You'll find your balance/mix ratio, try something new & theres always a learning curve to overcome, you'll get it sussed, but you'll need those buffers for NFT, RO aint got any at all! stick to what Canna recommend. Did you make sense of the Graph on the back of the bottle?
You can work out what Canna rec by that little graphic iirc.

Your EC & PH will dictate, what you use in addbacks/top-ups & at Changeout, id just stick with the same RO/Tap Ratio for everything, once you find the right mix/ratio. Ive seen this move fix up many growers, whereas they before were suffering using RO alone. If your not happy doing it that way, buy some Cal-Mg & use that with your RO instead, cleaner again.

 

[Billy Liar]

I have no probs with canna aqua and ro water, no cal/mag needed, no ph swings. I hardly even need to add any ph down.. I also use no other additives... works nice
peace
BL

 

[Scrogerman]

Thats good to know Billy, Canna label changes/recs confuse the fk outta me, i know this much.

 

[Scrogerman]

This might help you, theres some good info in this link:http://www.mandalaseeds.com/Guides/Fertilizing-Smart-Guide

If anyone can set me straight on this/these issues, then im all ears? Last time i e-mailed Canna, i never got a response, so i aint bothering.

 

[Scrogerman]

Right i just been on the Canna Calculator for Aqua based it on RO, take a look: http://www.canna.nl/en/growguide. I should of just used the calculator, duhhaa!

LOL, now my heads twated, seems it doesnt matter with Aqua(anymore?)RO or EC0.5/etc, not what i was always led to believe.?
Its only been a few years since i used it last. hahahaha thats got me scratching my head! The ml doses are vitually identicle.? mmm.??(ec0.8 lol), i just spotted the small print on the back of the lable, its made for tap with a 0.0mS water lol, just add tap EC0.5 'on top' if using tap. so there we av it. Canna have made this pretty confusing if you ask me. Give it a go n see is all i can say now, if you have issues then you know why, if you dont Scroger is a Nob-ed, Canna can take some of the blame though...
http://www.canna.com/site/dhtml/products_aqua_vega.php (circa 2005)

 

[frenzybud]

I guess I'll try some different water ratios out very soon. Maybe I will start out using mostly RO water.. I will keep you posted. Once again, thanks for the help

 

[frenzybud]

UPDATE:

Hi all..

I just wanted to update you on my progress so far.. I'm 9 days into 12/12 now after a veg period of 3 days. So in total 12 days from clone at this point.. The system is 3x1,5 meters, as mentioned earlier in this thread, I'm using the Canna Aqua line + some additives, only tab water for vega nutrients, I will be using 60% tab and 40% RO for Flores nutrients.

Here's some pics from earlier today:



I think it's coming along nicely, strains are almost only Skunk no. 1, there are also some White Rhino, Lemon Skunk, Jack Herer and Cheese (1 of each) in there. 65 plants in total.

Feel free to comment

 

[ogenko]

i got those same tracks i think
suregrow yeah?
flipping love them
easy to use and built to last

good growing brother

 

[frenzybud]

i got those same tracks i think
suregrow yeah?
flipping love them
easy to use and built to last

good growing brother

Exactly.. Suregrow is what they're called.

Thanks, I can't wait to see some bud on those plants. They grow like crazy right now.

 

[ogenko]

yeah yeah brother
best wishes to a bountifull harvest
you gonna trim back some of that undergrowth??
youre at about 2 plants per square foot
im gonna get all hypothetical now =)
if you do a little trimming to get 20+ grams from eash spot
you would be looking at 3#
1 per light
with "virtually" no veg time"
totally feasable, but i would imagine the upper limit is quite a bit higher +)
i think you will do well my friend
i'm happy to see someone else using the suregrow trackts too
i am hereby subscribed

im gonna scan back through the thread to see if i can find the answer,
but i will ask anyhow
how much waterflow do you have going? slope?
and how do you aerate the res?
maybe the answers already here,
i just got so excited when i saw those tracks
oyyouyoyoyoyoyoyyyyyyyyyyyeee

have you seen med-mans setup?
hese got a sweeeeeeet drip to nft handmade thing goin on
its good inspiration
m babbling now
peeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaacccccccccccceeeeeeeeee

 

[Scrogerman]

Yo man, looking good. How was the PH with the straight RO? i see you made the decision to use a mix of the 2(RO/Tap) in the end? look forward to seeing more man!

Nice strains too btw! What PH & EC you running at bro?

G'Luck!

 

[toohighmf]

suregrow NFT system? thing of beauty. I run NFT almost exclusively now. I must say its not all ferts and light with NFT. enviro and proper feeding intervals, as well as monitoring PH.

 

[Scrogerman]

I found simple maintenance & periodic leaching of the rw(every 2 weeks) really helps to keep things running smooth, & the rw stays clean with minimal salt build up inbetween leachings. makes a big difference to my NFT grows. I found breathable cap covers very usefull too, i like it clean. Anyone run anything like H&G dripclean with NFT & RW? that would save on maintenance.

G'Luck

 

[frenzybud]

Yo man, looking good. How was the PH with the straight RO? i see you made the decision to use a mix of the 2(RO/Tap) in the end? look forward to seeing more man!

Nice strains too btw! What PH & EC you running at bro?

G'Luck!

PH is actually pretty stable both with RO water and with tab water. I'm quite surprised by the Canna nutrients, they seem to be very PH stable.. I'm lovin it...
I shoot for a PH about 5,5-5,7 all the time exept for the 3 last weeks of flower, then I normally raise the PH just a little bit to about 5,7-5,9. EC is 1,7 right now, I'm following the Canna nutrient calculator 100%, I've bought all the products in the Aqua line + I add some Vitalink H2O2 and Supervit. That's about it.

 

[Scrogerman]

Thats good to know man, i aint got RO unit, what ive said is Canna rep advise from ages ago, i aint got an RO unit like i said. Sounds like your gonna have a trouble free grow.

Im not sure running H2o2 with Aqua, humic/fulvic & certainly seaweed extracts, is a big no-no with H2o2 as far as i know
Let us know if you do & it doesnt effect anything, ill be surprised!

G'Luck buddy, seems like you'll have a flawless grow ahead. Canna do make execllent products!

 

[frenzybud]

yeah yeah brother
best wishes to a bountifull harvest
you gonna trim back some of that undergrowth??
youre at about 2 plants per square foot
im gonna get all hypothetical now =)
if you do a little trimming to get 20+ grams from eash spot
you would be looking at 3#
1 per light
with "virtually" no veg time"
totally feasable, but i would imagine the upper limit is quite a bit higher +)
i think you will do well my friend
i'm happy to see someone else using the suregrow trackts too
i am hereby subscribed

im gonna scan back through the thread to see if i can find the answer,
but i will ask anyhow
how much waterflow do you have going? slope?
and how do you aerate the res?
maybe the answers already here,
i just got so excited when i saw those tracks
oyyouyoyoyoyoyoyyyyyyyyyyyeee

have you seen med-mans setup?
hese got a sweeeeeeet drip to nft handmade thing goin on
its good inspiration
m babbling now
peeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaacccccccccccceeeeeeeeee

Hey man.. I run a fast flowing NFT system, I designed it myself.. There is no slope, it's totally even. It's put together in such a way that if one pump fails, no biggie.. It will run just as good with one pump because the pump that has failed will now work as drain. Even if both pump fails the plants will have enough water for atleast a day.

A drawing to ilustrate my point:
I always have a minimum of about 1 cm (a little under ½ inch) of water in the trays. It works great. The pumps are rated at 2500 Liters/hour each. Så I got 5000 Liters passing through the trays an hour, total overkill, but the plants dig it. I dont even think the airstone is necesary, but I threw it in there just for good measure.

Peace