Symphilids...advice would be nice

[Microbeman]

That's one heavy duty predator! Seriously though symphylans are tough to deal with in open agriculture.

You know I was JK about the ignoramus thing

Dude...I got a trial approved for this summer through an ag focused university so I ain't a total dork...lol! I behave well when I need to . Hope it works out OK cause my day job needs to go.

I knew you were joking. I'm not that much of an ignoramous!

When we did our 5-7 year indoor notill vertical bin experiment we brought the rove beetles in with the outdoor soil and they just stuck around and multiplied.

 

[GDK]

I had symphilids once...and it WAS symphilids. BTI is your answer. Found a product called Vectobac, all organic, and it worked like a charm. It saved my SourKush mother who was on the very verge of dying.

Stay Safe

 

[Mountain]

I knew you were joking. I'm not that much of an ignoramous!

When we did our 5-7 year indoor notill vertical bin experiment we brought the rove beetles in with the outdoor soil and they just stuck around and multiplied.

I guess you're just somewhat of an ignoramus?

A 5-7 year experiment like that? Holy snikes!

Maybe in a year or two I can report some good news with what I'm messin with and what I'm dealing with has nothing to do with symphylans.

 

[mad librettist]

/

 

[Microbeman]

How would vectobac help? It is comprised of bacterial spores which when consumed by certain larvae, cause death. It has no effect on adult insects (that I've ever heard of) and it is normally used for mosquitos, black flies, fungus gnats and to some degree some types of caterpillars. I believe symphylans have several instars over several months which I think makes it a poor candidate for vectobac. The reason vectobac is useful is that it is harmless to beneficial species of insects. If it were harmful to s. imaculata, one would think it would also affect millipedes and all those wonderous creatures we count on.

 

[Microbeman]

I think this could be a good halloween costume...

What? Your avatar?

 

[Microbeman]

More Info from a good website;

http://uspest.org/pnw/insects?30IPMW02.dat

Biology and Control of the Garden Symphylan
Glenn Fisher, Amy Dreves and Jon Umble
Latest review—11/09
Introduction
Garden symphylans ((Scutigerella immaculata) are small, white, centipede-like soil arthropods which infest many home gardens and agricultural soils in western Oregon and Washington. They feed on roots and other subterranean plant parts. Economic damage occurs from direct feeding on roots, rhizomes and tubers from the time a seed germinates through plant maturity. Seedling death, poor growth, reduced vigor and yield reduction result. Chronic feeding on the roots of both annual and perennial plants reduce a plant’s ability to acquire water and nutrients. This results in a poor root system that manifests as general stunting and distortion of plants as well as increased susceptibility to plant pathogens. Finding and controlling symphylans is difficult due to their daily and seasonal vertical movement in the soil which is dependent on soil moisture, temperature, time of day and season.
Selection of appropriate tactics to manage garden symphylans is largely determined by the cropping system (no-till versus tillage), soil type and structure and availability of and use of soil applied insecticides.
Conventional growers, organic growers, and small scale gardeners often approach symphylan management from different perspectives, primarily due to economic and scale dependent factors. Regardless, effective management requires the ability to accurately identify garden symphylans and the damage they cause, a general knowledge of their ecology, how to sample for them and what control strategies you can use. This knowledge provides the foundation for control. Correct diagnosis of a garden symphylan problem is sometimes tricky, since damage may be exhibited in a number of forms and garden symphylans are not always easy to find when damage is observed.
Identification
Garden symphylans are not insects, but members of the class Symphyla. Several species occur in Oregon, but the garden symphylan, S. immaculata is the main species that causes crop damage in the U.S. Garden symphylans are by far the most common symphyla species found in Oregon agricultural systems.
Garden symphylans are small whitish “centipede-like” creatures that measure about 0.25 inch long when mature. They have 6 to 12 pairs of legs (depending on age) which make them easy to differentiate them from common soil insects which only have 3 pairs of legs. Though their color may vary depending on what they have eaten, they are generally whiter and smaller than true centipedes, which are also soil arthropods with many pairs of legs (one pair per body segment) and make quick movements. Millipedes are generally slower moving soil arthropods, with two pairs of legs on each body segment.
Garden symphylan biology
Eggs, immatures and adults can be found together throughout most of the year. Temperature plays a key role in regulating oviposition, and the greatest numbers of eggs are most commonly deposited in the spring and fall. Eggs are pearly white and spherical with hexagonal shaped ridges. Egg incubation period is from 25 to 40 days under typical spring soil temperatures in western Oregon. First instars emerge from the egg with six pairs of legs. Newly hatched symphylans resemble springtails. The garden symphylan has an exoskeleton and like an insect sheds it (molts) periodically to grow and enlarge body size. Each of the six subsequent molts results in the addition of a pair of legs and antennal segments. Total time from egg to sexually mature adult (seventh instar) is about 2 to 3 months during typical spring soil temperatures in western Oregon. Two complete generations per year can occur.
Occurrence and movement
Garden symphylans are generally a problem in irrigated crops grown on heavier alluvial soils. Within these soils, garde n symphylans tend to occur in “hotspots” encompassing a few square feet to several acres. Hotspots often remain consistent from year to year with little change in populations and only minor lateral spread.
Within a favorable soil habitat the garden symphylan can migrate from the soil surface to a depth of over 3 ft. The soil profile, structure, composition and water holding capacity determines the depth to which symphylans migrate. Vertical migration is primarily related to interactions among moisture, temperature, and endogenous feeding cycles (cycles originating internally). A general understanding of these interactions is important both for timing and interpreting sampling efforts, and for selecting management tactics.
Garden symphylans tend to aggregate in the top 6 inches of soil when the soil is moist and warm. They move to deeper soil strata when soil becomes dry, hot or too cold. They are generally found in the surface soil from March through November, with the greatest surface population observed in May and June. GS migrate to the root zone to feed, then return to the deeper strata to molt, evidenced by the large number of molted skins that may be observed in these strata. Since migration is not entirely synchronized within a population, garden symphylans are usually present throughout the habitable portion of the soil profile. Presence of GS in the surface soil may also be influenced by other variables that impede movement, such as tillage and compaction from heavy objects (such as tractor tires).
Sampling
Many of the difficulties in effectively managing garden symphylans result from unknowns concerning the density and location of populations in a field. Sampling, although often time-consuming, can provide information critical to managing populations effectively. Sampling is commonly conducted in April, May, or June, prior to planting. In general, the later in the spring that sampling occurs, the more symphylans will be found in the soil. Samples that include crop or weed roots generally contain more root-feeding symphylans than those taken in bare soil. The type and extent of sampling may vary depending on the site conditions (e.g., vegetation, size of area, cropping history), and whether populations have been historically problematic in certain areas of a site.
Three main sampling methods are used: baiting methods, soil sampling methods, and indirect sampling methods. Each method has benefits and drawbacks, and the selection of a sampling method will vary depending on the objectives of the sampling (e.g., detection vs. precise population density estimation), time of year, and site conditions.
Part of the difficulty in sampling is a result of the patchy spatial distribution of symphylan populations. It is important to be aware that an individual sample unit count provides information about a local region within which that sample unit was taken. Counts will often vary from zero to more than 50 garden symphylans per sample unit (i.e., soil core or bait). To obtain information about the spatial patterns of the population, sample units are often taken in a grid pattern. Areas with different cropping histories are generally sampled independently.
In most cases, sampling only measures the density of symphylans in the surface soil. Therefore, sampling should only be conducted when garden symphylans are within this region. The best sampling conditions are, generally, when the soil is warm and moist. Sampling within 3 weeks after major tillage, such as disking, plowing, or spading may not reflect the true population because symphylans often have not had ample time to reestablish in the surface soil.
To detect or identify a symphylan problem in a crop, bait for garden symphylans in suspected areas within 3 weeks of planting. To sample seedlings or established plants, dig them up in the early morning when GS is close to the soil surface. Inspect their roots and the soil around the roots. They may also be present in roots of grassy weeds in the area.
Soil sampling is the standard/historic method for estimating how many garden symphylans are in a field (i.e., approximate number of garden symphylans /unit of soil, or population density estimate). Sample unit sizes vary; the most common soil sample units are 6 x 6 x 12 inches (length, width, depth) or cores of 2.5 inches in diameter by 6- to 12-inch depth. When soil samples are taken, the soil from each sample unit is usually placed on a dark piece of plastic or cloth where the aggregates are broken apart and the garden symphylans are counted. Sampling is usually conducted when garden symphylans are present in the top 6 to 12 inches of the root zone.
Bait samples are generally much faster to take than soil samples, but they are also more variable and more sensitive to factors such as soil moisture, temperature, and presence of vegetation. To bait sample, one-half of a sliced potato is placed on the soil surface and sheltered with a protective cover (e.g., white pot or 4-inch PVC cap). Baits are generally checked one to three days after placement. Baits are checked by lifting the bait and counting first the garden symphylans on the soil, and secondly the garden symphylans on the bait. During warm and/or dry conditions, baits are generally checked one to two days after placement as counts decrease if baits are left out for multiple days. In cooler conditions, baits are commonly left out for three to five days. Bait sampling works very well for some applications, though it cannot be used under all conditions. Baiting works best at least two to three weeks after tillage, when the soil has stabilized but before plants are well established. When baiting works well it is a very useful tool, but numerous factors influence this method. Therefore, soil samples should always be taken along with baits in order to confirm the presence/absence of garden symphylans.
Plant growth can sometimes be a useful indirect measure of garden symphylan populations and is often a good starting point for assessing garden symphylan populations. Indirect measures, however, should never be used without some direct sampling to confirm the presence of garden symphylans.
Determining the number of samples
Sampling requirements will often vary by site, depending on factors such as cropping history and time of year. Sampling involves establishing a balance between the need to be confident about estimate of the number of symphylans present (implying a large number of samples) and not investing excessive time and energy into the sampling endeavor (implying a small number of samples).
Follow these guidelines for determining the sample size:
1. Sampling for low population densities (e.g., early in the spring or of highly susceptible crops) requires a greater number of sample units (e.g., 100+) than sampling for high population density (e.g., 30 garden symphylans/ft)
2. As the variability of the sampling method increases, so does the number of sample units required. Since the baiting method is more variable than the soil sampling method, two to three times more bait than soil sample units are required.
3. For estimation of “economic” population densities in moderately susceptible crops, at least 35 soil sample units, or at least 50 bait units, are commonly used. Depending on the size of the field, and the time of year, considerably more sample units are sometimes used.
Action thresholds
Management decisions, such as those regarding pesticide applications and the intensity of tillage, are sometimes made based on pre-plant garden symphylan population density estimates. Owing largely to the difficulty in sampling and the numerous crops to which garden symphylans are pests, action thresholds for individual crops are not well developed. The relationship between garden symphylan population density (estimated by sampling methods) and crop health is often influenced by a number of factors, including tillage intensity, crop species, planting date, and crop stage.
In the field, noticeable damage has often been observed if populations exceed an average of five to ten garden symphylans per square foot in moderately to highly susceptible crops, such as broccoli, squash, spinach, and cabbage. In conventional cropping systems, pesticides are often applied to susceptible crops if populations exceed three garden symphylans per square foot. In more tolerant crops, such as potato and small grains, garden symphylan feeding may not lead to significant damage, even at considerably higher population densities.

Management and control
For management purposes it is important to make a distinction between tactics that may decrease symphylan population and those that may reduce crop damage but not necessarily reduce pest populations. In most cases, effective garden symphylan management involves establishing a balance between these two tactics. It is important to note that in most cases little can be done without replanting after damage is observed. Sampling is, therefore, important in determining the proper course of action.
Tactics for population reduction
No simple, inexpensive, and completely reliable method of controlling symphylans has been developed. No method will eradicate garden symphylans from a site, and the effect of most tactics will not last longer than one to three years.
Tillage is probably the oldest control tactic used and is still one of the most effective. Tillage can physically crush garden symphylans, thus reducing populations. Tillage may also decrease populations of key garden symphylan predators such as centipedes and predaceous mites. However, in annual crops, benefits of increased predator populations in reduced tillage systems have not been shown to be as effective as tillage in decreasing garden symphylan populations. In general, for most effective control, till when the garden symphylans are in the surface soil, and when soil moisture allows preparation of a fine seed bed. Since only a portion of the population is in the surface horizon, tillage never provides complete control; however, surface populations are commonly significantly lower for at least two to three weeks after tillage.
In conjunction with tillage, pesticides are used to manage garden symphylans. Plant protection is probably achieved by direct mortality as well as by repelling symphylans from the root zone. Pesticides are most effective if applied before planting as broadcast and incorporated applications. Banded/incorporated applications may provide acceptable protection for some crops. In some perennial crops, such as hops, post-plant pesticide applications can reduce symphylans sufficiently to promote plant vigor. Fumigants, organophosphate, and carbamate pesticides have historically been the most effective, but many are no longer registered for symphylans in many crops. Pyrethroid pesticides generally do not generally provide as high a level of control. Soil-applied organophosphate insecticides (Mocap, Lorsban) usually protect crops sufficiently from symphylans for the production of an annual crop. Soil fumigation, when properly performed , can reduce symphylan populations enough to allow 3 years or more of crop production with no additional control efforts during that period. Refer to individual crop sections for current registrations.
Insecticide registration is continually changing: always check specific insecticide labels for current registered uses. The following may have registered insecticides for symphylan control: asparagus, snap beans, table beets, broccoli, Brussels sprouts, cabbage, cauliflower, carrots, sweet corn, cucumber, garlic, peppers, potatoes, rhubarb, spinach, sugar beets, hops, mint, strawberry, silage and feed corn, clover, grass seed, radish seed, sugar beet seed, home garden vegetables, home garden strawberries, and home landscape plants.
Crop rotation may partially explain seemingly sudden shifts in garden symphylan populations. While garden symphylans feed on a wide range of plants, and can even persist in fallow soil, plants vary greatly in their suitability for garden symphylan population development. Populations have been shown to decrease significantly in potato crops, even allowing subsequent cultivation in rotation of susceptible crops. Though at this point no other crops have shown to be nearly as effective as potato, numbers have also been found to be lower after a spring oat (‘Monida’) winter cover crop than after a mustard (‘Martiginia’), barley (‘Micah’), or rye (‘Wheeler’) winter cover crop. Mustard and spinach crops have been shown to be very good hosts, and may lead to increasing populations in some cases. Tactics for crop damage reduction
Most plants can tolerate some level of garden symphylan feeding during all or part of the growing season, and numerous tactics can be used to grow healthy crops successfully in garden infested soil. These tactics can be classified as those aimed at 1) reducing crop damage under high garden symphylan populations and 2) at reducing the number of garden symphylans on crop roots during establishment, when plants are often most susceptible.
Susceptibility to garden symphylan feeding can vary dramatically among different plant species and varieties. Generally, smaller seeded crops tend to be more susceptible than larger seeded crops. Commonly damaged crops include broccoli and other cole crops, spinach, beets, onions, and squash. Beans and potatoes are rarely damaged even under high garden symphylan populations. Perennial crops, such as strawberries, raspberries, blueberries, hops, and bare root trees can also be damaged, particularly during establishment. Within a crop, susceptibility is often related to the stage of the crop planted. For example, direct-seeded tomatoes are generally more susceptible than transplants. Broccoli transplants, conversely, often fail to establish under high garden symphylan populations.
Garden symphylans are quite active and surprisingly mobile for their size, moving vertically and horizontally through the soil profile. They rely on soil pores and channels made by roots and other soil organisms, in order to move through the soil. Therefore, access to roots is strongly correlated with soil structure, bulk density, or “fluffiness” of the soil and pore connectivity. Some tactics focus on temporarily reducing the number of garden symphylans in the surface soil, then planting, thus allowing these plants to establish while garden symphylan densities are low.
Tillage is an important tactic for decreasing populations in the surface soil. Along with directly killing garden symphylans, tillage breaks apart soil aggregates, modifying soil pores and pore connectivity. The effects of tillage may vary with the type of implements used. In general, the more disruptive the tillage the greater effect it will have on garden symphylan movement and feeding. Plowing or disking, followed by thorough preparation of a fine seed bed with a rototiller or roterra, often reduces surface feeding garden symphylan populations for two to three weeks. Light rolling, with a landscaping roller or similar implement, is used under some conditions to reduce the size and/or number of macropores, thereby restricting garden symphylan movement.

 

[GDK]

How would vectobac help? It is comprised of bacterial spores which when consumed by certain larvae, cause death. It has no effect on adult insects (that I've ever heard of) and it is normally used for mosquitos, black flies, fungus gnats and to some degree some types of caterpillars. I believe symphylans have several instars over several months which I think makes it a poor candidate for vectobac. The reason vectobac is useful is that it is harmless to beneficial species of insects. If it were harmful to s. imaculata, one would think it would also affect millipedes and all those wonderous creatures we count on.

So are you saying that i wasnt symphilids i was fighting? Im pretty sure it was, and it seems that BTI is used widely as a way to get rid of em. Hence the vectobac..

Stay Safe

 

[Microbeman]

So are you saying that i wasnt symphilids i was fighting? Im pretty sure it was, and it seems that BTI is used widely as a way to get rid of em. Hence the vectobac..

Stay Safe

I don't know what you had but I've not ever heard of using vectobac against symphylans . I have extensive experience using vectobac for mosquito control. Can you cite any references concerning its use with symphylans? How rapidly was your problem resolved, considering vectobac only effects larvae? [and sometimes only certain instars]

 

[Microbeman]

http://learningstore.uwex.edu/assets/pdfs/ncr581.pdf another good resource

 

[GDK]

Symphilids

Small pests that are tan to white colored and look like centipedes. They are very deadly to the plants, because they burrow down into the roots and damage them by feeding of them. Your plants leaves will begin to die off. They are found mostly in soil composites that have not been cleaned, like soil that has additives in them such as animal manure.
(I know it will smell funny but sterilizing the soil in the oven for 30 min can kill any pests in the soil, heat to 350 for 30 min.) They are easy to tell if you have them, because they come to the top soil when your plant is being watered, if you find you do have them, use Fungus Gnat Killer (“B.T." a non chemical,biological control) in the powdered form. One application should kill it, just to be safe repeat every 7 days to kill off the larvae. Tobacco juice kills them as well! And nematodes.

Picture 2 shows the Symphilids look like..

(photo provided by Diels Alder)

Thats from the infirmary..but you are right. I couldnt find any info on symphylans and BTI on non-canna sites. But a quick Google search gave me lots of hits on canna sites stating the same. I believe it took no more than 2 applications to get rid of em..

 

[Microbeman]

Well if what you applied killed adults, it is highly unlikely that your product contained only Bacillus thuringiensis israelensis. or else it was luck and happenstance. If you read up on how vectobac works it makes no sense and it is unfortunate misinformation is being spread. Of course if I learn otherwise, I'll eat my words.

 

[Microbeman]

The little article you posted on Hanseniella ivorensis seems the only one but replicated all over the internet (makes me ill). It seems another symphyla but very rare from what I can see. It is probably related to symphylans - Scutigerella immaculata but I don't have time to figure it out....anybody? Try looking up google images of both.

 

[Mountain]

I couldnt find any info on symphylans and BTI on non-canna sites. But a quick Google search gave me lots of hits on canna sites stating the same. I believe it took no more than 2 applications to get rid of em..

When I Googled virtually all references to 'symphylids' were on stoner forums while 'symphylans' were on main stream and scientific sites so that's a start.

Well if that's so you've solved a big problem in some areas of the country. I've still yet to see an indoor grower having a problem with symphylans and they're becoming somewhat of an urban legend.

 

[Mountain]

They are very deadly to the plants, because they burrow down into the roots and damage them by feeding of them. Your plants leaves will begin to die off. They are found mostly in soil composites that have not been cleaned, like soil that has additives in them such as animal manure.

(I know it will smell funny but sterilizing the soil in the oven for 30 min can kill any pests in the soil, heat to 350 for 30 min.) They are easy to tell if you have them, because they come to the top soil when your plant is being watered

From what I understand they cannot burrow and only travel through existing pathways. Yes, from what I understand, a way to deal with them is flood the soil and they will float to the top. In fact that's a way you can test soil for symphylam infestation...grab a handful of soil and toss into a bucket of wawa and they will float.

They are found in soil that's been infected and to do that you basically need to go outside and snag some infected soil. In some ways I don't see what animal manure has to do with it cause symphylans would not survive the digestive process. Symphylans thrive in soil with the best tilth...kind of strange...you create the best outdoor situation for growing crops and that's the enviro symphylans thrive in.

 

[GDK]

Indeed they flocked to to top of the pot when watered.

Stay Safe

 

[mad librettist]

/

 

[Mountain]

Indeed they flocked to to top of the pot when watered.

You know better what you had as you were there. One thing I know is that a recommended control method in infected fields is to flood them before planting.

As for the manure comment thing I made...of course they won't survive the digestive process of an animal...D'Oh! I guess manure additions have more to do with soil structure changes that favor symphylans.

 

[GoneRooty]

I thought I had symphylans once, and went and talked to the guy I get my soil amendments from, figuring since he has 30+ years of organic gardening experience he could help me. One of the things he told me about symphylans is that they are flat, and very fast. Since the flat part ruled them out, we never discussed treatment options, but just wanted to add them being flat, since I hadn't seen it posted yet.

 

[shortybus]

I realize I am bumping an older thread but I saw bugs in my soil and this seemed to be the best thread I've found. I was able to grab some of the soil toss it on the floor and after taking a few photos I was able to capture the little bastard. He was fast!

My soil is fox farms ocean organic, this is my first grow, plans are two weeks old, I an an mmj patient in the pnw. I know some bugs can be good but the do look like the symphalids. I'm still unsure what is the best way to get if them. The plants look good in spite of the bugs.

Plants are regular jock horror seeds from nirvana.

Thanks,

SB