Old School Northern Lights

[SOTF420]

You know it's funny Chimera. You constantly are going on about everyone else being some "hack" and all these comments about money and profit yet you are the one selling seeds to make a profit and (with less than stellar results from what I have seen from many of your lines) Let us not forget either where many of your strains came from, they came from others like Breeder Steve who you now detest and talk down about any chance you get but yet somehow they are magically okay for you to "breed" with and then it's okay?

What makes you the only pea in the pod?

You say others are not doing selection or improvements and don't have quality and those are some very bold general statements to make and to be quite honest with you quite absurd and very ignorant to think you are the only person who is qualified to make Cannabis seeds. You are in no position to tell everyone else here what to do man. All you do is bitch and moan about everyone and ICM constantly.

I really think that you have some major issues with other people doing what they love and working with their favorite plants and making more seeds from them which is sad because without other people doing this many people would not have seeds or would have very small limited options like only buying your seeds for instance. Every post you make seems more and more money and profit motivated but you constantly hide behind this disguise of trying to "help Cannabis" well really how are you helping Cannabis or any of us by buying up all the stock from other Breeders that go defunct and making your own crosses from these to SELL for money? Maybe I am in the twilight zone here but your posts don't make any sense and it seems you have a FUNDAMENTAL issue with being on a Cannabis forum that is for OTHER PEOPLE to use and there are many people other than just yourself in this world who can grow Cannabis and make Cannabis seeds. If your gear is so much better and superior than everything else I guess it should be flying off the shevles.

I also would think that after continually insulting a place that gives you a platform to sell seeds on you would get the hint when the owner tells you to stop doing so yet you continue. So long live Chimera, the only breeder good enough & smart enough to make Cannabis seeds. You should get a job at Monsanto you would fit right in there.

 

[Chimera]

Mr LED TENT breeder show me your pics of grows from my seed... lots of talk, but still zero evidence...


Thre are lots of folks making improvements... Tom Hill, Charlie Garcia, Breeder Brad, Dubi.... old works from Lemanonegra... I;ve seen some nnice works from Mosca.... a few Canadian folks like bobthegrower are here... even Rez has made some improvements to some of the lines he`s working with... but you`d be caught out as a bold faced liar to say that even half the seeds being offered are anything more than hack jobs created for profit... and if you doubt this you either are unaware of the state of the industry, or have your head firmly planted in your rear..... its obvious in which camp you reside.

And still... the grapefruit is not NL....

-Chimera

 

[SOTF420]

I started some of your seeds, and was never very impressed I either got weak seedlings with some mutations or low germ rates over the years from them and wasted plenty of money on your seeds. I still have a few packs sitting in my fridge and have been debating on what to do with them. You asked so I am giving you an honest answer, I know people have had some nice grows with your stuff but I always had far better plants from SOL. The old Sweet Tooth has a VIGOR I have not seen in anything else other than some strains from Mr.Nice seeds.

I did grow out your Calizahr and had some nice plants but the females had hermy issues I told you this awhile ago and it seems to be well known that's a possibility. I also know that does not represent your other lines fully. The GF x BB I have seen plenty of grows of and had friends grow it out and the plants were very decent, medium yielding and very BB dominant not very GF like but again like you said you made these for SOL using the SPG clone and DJ's Blueberry so there really is not much "breeding" going on there more "seed making" and since there was no backcrossing to the SPG like Steve did with his Sweet Tooth they are not very GF dominant in my opinion. I really would like to see something better from you, something new. I think you have the resources and ability to really make some real gems but have not done so yet. I have yet to see the "crown jewel" from Chimera like Steve's Sweet Tooth was for him.

I can tell you that the seeds made in my tent under LED are twice the size of the seeds I have from you and look to be much healthier and robust. I would like to think of myself as the microbrewer and you as more of the commercial beer maker. You can crank out seeds in big rooms but something seems to get lost in the shuffle probably because each and every one of my plants got constant love & attention at all times and my selection was done in a very experienced manner since I am very familiar with my strain I love so much. I make no great claims to fame like you do and don't even like the word "Breeder" I am a Cannabis lover.

Anyone can take an elite clone like SPG and pollinate it with someone else's Blueberry male all is takes is the basic material to work with and an environment to do it with some basic growing skills. I know you know Cannabis and you are well educated but don't sit up on your high horse and try to pretend there is some mystical magical equation to be able to reproduce Cannabis seeds. The reality is anyone can be a breeder and make seeds.

Maybe you can get that SPG clone out and do something with it or tell everyone what the other parent of MF is...thanks

 

[Chimera]

I SUFFER FROM A MULTIPLE PERSONALITY DISORDER WITH ILLUSIONS & FANTASY OF MANY EVENTS THAT NEVER EVEN TOOK PLACE AND I MAKE UP ALL KINDS OF STORIES TO ENTERTAIN MYSELF

SOTF, you've already proven yourself a liar to me numerous times with your inconsistent stories in public and pm. You can't even keep track of your lies.... I don't think you even try to ... like your sig says you just make up stories and post them online to entertain yourself.

Post some pics of your grows with my seeds... post the original packages... your word has absolutely ZERO credibility.

The blueberry hybrid lines don't show any mutations, the inbreds do. People are still posting 100% germination on these seeds, and I've had the same experience every time I've tested them out of the dedicated seed fridge. Why didn't you contact me about it? The simple answer is you've never grown them, if you had you'd be able to post some pics and prove your point... you can't... and once again it's just words with no evidence to back them up... a common theme with you.

Regardless say what you will... it's busy time of year for those of us without a closet/tent... and I just don't have the time to go back and forth with someone that has no evidence to support their claims.... just a lot of hot air.

Why anyone would want to align themselves with a known liar is beyond me...

-Chimera

 

[SOTF420]

A liar to you?

Like you repping REZ in your post above after sending me nasty PM's talking smack about him and saying I was like a REZ? Is that what you mean by different in PM's and public?

I told you I bought some of your stuff over the years and was a customer, and I had just okay results with your stuff. Never found anything really special myself but that's my experience and many have told me the same thing but that doesn't mean you aren't special still. I mean you can take a little criticism like anyone else right?

Or are you above all that too?

Like you run around calling people hacks and judging everyone at will like they are on some firing line have you ever though about the impact of your words and how that makes others feel that may have a genuine love and passion for what they are doing?

Do you even have feelings?

What if you grew my Swt IBL next to yours and mine was better, then what would your world implode?

This juice is not worth the squeeze, insult away you are an expert at that for certain even if you do mean well somehow & someway. Regardless of what you say this is my last post in this thread and it's totally off topic now and I won't continue to participate in it.

Peace to you brother, and good karma as well.

 

[Chimera]

Seed size is genetic, not environmental.... damn you don;t even know how little you know. How you think you could make an improvement is beyond me with the nonsense you spout.

The Swt 1.1 aka GFxBB are alot more SPG like than anything I've seen from you.... makes me doubt you've ever grown the SPG. The plants you;ve been putting up have very little similarity to her. Hey throw up a pic of it grown by you if you can.

Seed makers make seeds SOTF, breeders make improvements. Having your plants produce seeds from standard male:female seedlots is the default... it takes more work to NOT produce seeds than to produce them... It's not an acheivement worthy of any self congratulations.

I'm done here... you aren't equiped to engage in a debate, and again you have no evidence to support your claims, nothing to offer but hot air.... so have at her, she's all yours....
-Chimera.

 

[Chimera]

....have you ever though about the impact of your words and how that makes others feel that may have a genuine love and passion for what they are doing?
Do you even have feelings?

nyuk nyuk nyuk

Hopefully someone with passion for what they would do would take some effort to make something decent, rather than hack apart a seedline they supposedly respect.

Someone with passion would make an attempt to understand what they are doing, rather than take the easy route and do nothing but fuck some plants together under a couple of LEDs and call it breeding..... er sorry cannabis loving. Is that the new friendly terminology for seed hacking? Awesome.

-Chimera

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

Come on Gypsy, could you really look me in the eye and tell me the kind of seedlot reproduction we're talking about here is ACTUAL BREEDING? A disgrace, is what it is.... let's not mince words and throw a little honesty around. To do any less only smacks of financially motivated bias.

ICMAG only becomes a 'spam' or 'hack' site, when it's used for wholesale seed hackery ... with no intention towards selection, improvements, quality ... and only for the production of something of dollar value, with little intrinsic value as a cannabis seedline.

It doesn't have to be... but let's face what is really going on here. Wholesale seed hackery for profit... not for the improvement or betterment of the species, or the seedlines that are represented.

The bar should be held higher. IC has the potential to be a great resource, with accurate information, breeding standards, a teaching tool... but it fails desperately because the quality info is buried in product spam, misrepresentations and YES, HACKING.... with back patting approval..

As Rez said, the message might be unpalatable, and certainly unpopular to say... but it's the truth nonetheless.

-Chimera

Whether it's a seed-lot reproduction or not......why should that bother you Chimera?......I have not had Sweet Tooth in stock for quite some time now but I have had many requests for it......and if SOTF can reproduce something as good, or near to it....then I expect to see many happy growers....There is a possibility that he may even be able to produce something that is even a little better....

...as always the proof will be in the growing....

Quite obviously SOTF has grown this variety for quite some time now.... and has made HIS selections......HIS selections may not be what YOUR selections may be....but he is the one making the seeds, so really that's up to him...so in HIS way.... he may be actually improving the line....so this could then 'raise the bar'.....and so have much 'intrinsic' value as a cannabis seedline....

....What you do is not really that much different from what he is doing.....you both grow plants to make selections from......and once the plants have been selected you produce seed-lots.....for better or for worse......that is to be decided by a multitude of growers out there that will acquire these seeds.....in the future...

**and to add:....your constant a boring/trite use of the 'HACK' word smacks of HIBE from Overgrow who used it in just about every post he ever made.....having a superiority complex about cannabis breeding does not help anyone.....particularly those that wish to learn about it.....

.....and I find it odd that you yourself would criticize any new breeder for being rewarded for seed sales.......since you have already been getting paid in the business for a while.....

 

[Chimera]

Ah so you are replacing a name on a shelf... for someone that wants to buy a name.... proceed with the hackery then.... justified!

What a sad state of affairs our industry is in... for shame.

For the record, there is a VAST difference between what I am doing and this hackery. I dont support or condone small population hackery with zero selection, zero testing, zero improvement.... true improvements are simply NOT POSSIBLE from small population hacks of an outcrossing species... I know you guys dont understand that and havent tried to understand that (because doing so doesnt impact the bottom line), and most of the customers are novices that cant tell the difference... but the damage done in showing support for this kind of garbage mating as a standard, as the norm..... is no less than shameful.


-Chimera

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

Ah so you are replacing a name on a shelf... for someone that wants to buy a name.... proceed with the hackery then.... justified!

What a sad state of affairs our industry is in... for shame Gypsy, for shame.

Your use of the word 'Hackery'.....borders on 'Quackery'......

....it is not possible to accurately reproduce Sweet Tooth.....since the Mother and Father plants that made its last seed-lot under Steve do probably not exist any more....

....my understanding is that SOTF is making something as close to (or possibly better).....and I presume that it will be named accordingly so as not to confuse it with the SOL Sweet Tooth.....

 

[Ganja D]

I should probably stay out of this,but I don't know any better.
Without trying to offend anyone,how is SOFT's Sweet tooth and inbreed line. I would think it takes 3-6 generations of incrossing,outcrossing,and backcrossing at least. Sound more like 1 incross to me.
As far as the debate. F1's are a big part of the seed industry. Is it bad for the education and understanding of cannabis for users and growers? Maybe. Is it fun to have so much exciting variation? Sometimes. Is it breeding? kind of,maybe. It's definitely part of breeding.
There are still people willing to work strains and devote the proper time to stabilize and improve.

 

[SOTF420]

It's always about the bigger & better with you Chimera, if I didn't know better I would say you must be a woman. And I have grown out hundreds of the first incrossed generation I made from excellent quality original parents many years ago and I know more about this line than your average grower so to make these again very pompous ignorant statements regarding selections and testing or what I have done or not done you are again very wrong and really grasping for strings at this point. Why you are so threatened by my small project still baffles my mind but people can take from that what they will I guess.

You constantly assume things you have no idea what I have done, you only know what I show you or post pictures of. I started 50 seedlings for this project and whittled them down early on based on vigor and health and went from there, that is how I do it. Like Gypsy said, my selections are not yours so mind your own business go self that SPG clone that came from NL for us and make yourself somewhat useful here. You don't see me trolling you about your projects or seeds so please stop doing so to me.

You did see the primary male I used for pollination right? A little skimpy tiny guy..

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

For the record, there is a VAST difference between what I am doing and this hackery. I dont support or condone small population hackery with zero selection,


-Chimera

......OK lets SEE what you are doing Chimera......we would like to see the supposed thousands of plants that you make your selections from.....so should I say 'pics or it didn't happen?'

 

[Croissant]

so chimera then describe your selection process and how many of your lines are worked?

so a breeder is only someone who works a line?

and a hack is someone who makes f1s?

and continuing to work a worked line is hacking if you didnt start the line?

 

[Chimera]

Your use of the word 'Hackery'.....borders on 'Quackery'......


....my understanding is that SOTF is making something as close to (or possibly better).....

With all due respect Gypsy, being your house and all... the above statement is the real Quackery of the last page.

You simple cannot make improvements growing outcrossing species in minuscule populations in tents under LEDs, coupled with effectively zero selection, zero progeny testing... this is nothing more than pollen chucking.

It just cant be done. Show me someone who says otherwise, and I will show you someone that cant effectively judge a cannabis population for performance, traits of value, similarity to the progenitors. Ill show you someone that hasnt even tried.

Cannabis, my lady... Im so sorry for how you are treated by our community that professes to love you, to cherish you. I wish we could say we know not what we do, but the truth is we do... and do it anyway. One day I hope we as a community can pick up our game and do what is right for you, but it seems our greed far outweighs our interest in preserving you for what you bring us daily. Perhaps our own desire for dollars and false celebrity can take a backseat to your needs.... before too much damage is done.

-Chimera

 

[Ganja D]

So the SWT IBL is an F3? or an incross then one backcross? I'm sure there will be a good representation of the strain but to call it IBL may be a bit far fetched.

 

[Croissant]

hey chimera how big of populations do you use to make your selections?

are your lines like f3 and beyond?

 

[Chimera]

......OK lets SEE what you are doing Chimera......we would like to see the supposed thousands of plants that you make your selections from.....so should I say 'pics or it didn't happen?'

Gypsy Ive posted the photos you speak of, but you and your staff deleted them when you erased my account when Plural of Mongoose took over your servers... and all of the photos went by the wayside. Do you have backups.... I dont with me currently.

I will post new pictures of some real selections when I have something that you need to see... but at this point posting anything of value to this forum is a waste of my time.. the useful information I post, as with the incredibly useful information from posters like Hybe or Tom Hill is ignored.... there's no point, no drive for anyone to use it... when the seed sellers are just as happy to sell anything without any work put into it.

 

[SOTF420]

Ganja D, check out the thread my friend. I understand your question & these seeds being produced were from 4th gen incrossed plants from the originals and this seed generation will be the 5th generation which can be named an "IBL" or inbred line although I try to not get too tied up in semantics because in all honesty incrosses, inbred, same et all. The Sweet Tooth #4 came from an already inbred population anyways that Breeder Steve repollinated with his famous and well proven Sweet Tooth Bx2 male that fathered such strains as LUI, Swt#3, Blockhead and others. Hope that helps brother.

I never claimed to have selected out of hundreds or thousands of plants myself, Chimera seems to think that is necessary and very well might be with the stuff he is working with. I was looking for a special male and I absolutely found him maybe by luck or maybe it was just meant to be who knows.

 

[Chimera]

1)so chimera then describe your selection process and how many of your lines are worked?

2)so a breeder is only someone who works a line?

3)and a hack is someone who makes f1s?

4)and continuing to work a worked line is hacking if you didnt start the line?

1) feel free to use the search function croissant, I've been open about selections from the start

2) As stated in the thread, a breeder is someone who makes improvements

3) A hack is someone who reproduces seed without selection, preservation, or intent to improve. A Hack is someone who makes seed without a goal or any selection towards it. A hack is someone who makes seed for no other reason than to make seed for sale.

4) there's lots of ways to continue and improve a line, but none involve using 10 seeds of an outcrossing species and mating them, or a small subset of them, and mating them inter se.