madliberated
Member
I FINALLY found them! Sweet jesus in heaven! Thank the dog!
now what?
Spurr?
now what?
Spurr?
Finally! pine bark fines!
- Thread starter madliberated
- Start date
madliberated
Member
madliberated
Member
pine bark is used in many container mixes.
I aim to try one of them.
I have on hand
Aged pine bark
peat moss
calcined DE
turface
horticultural charcoal
nice topsoil
some bagged compost
home made EWC
rice hulls
azomite
biotone
I aim to try one of them.
I have on hand
Aged pine bark
peat moss
calcined DE
turface
horticultural charcoal
nice topsoil
some bagged compost
home made EWC
rice hulls
azomite
biotone
O
oneeyewilly
hmmm
madliberated
Member
madliberated
Member
started screening, and realized I am back to square 1. This stuff is mostly sapwood.
TACOE
Member
I don't know much, but wouldn't all that carbony wood steal some nitrogen from the soil surface? Maybe insignificant amounts... May be significant in containers? Looks like a nice collection of ingredients.. lots of aeration stuffs.. you gunna use a mixture of DE, Turface, and Hulls?
Oh, I'm assuming you are talking about using it as mulch... if you are talking about in the mix.. I'd say scrap the bark. And try to compost the char
Oh, I'm assuming you are talking about using it as mulch... if you are talking about in the mix.. I'd say scrap the bark. And try to compost the char
madliberated
Member
the point of using partially composted bark, rather than sapwood, is that it breaks down so slowly. N robbing is not a problem.
2ndtry's mix did away with perlite and other drainage amendnents, and relied entirely on pine bark fines to provide air and water porosity.
2ndtry's mix did away with perlite and other drainage amendnents, and relied entirely on pine bark fines to provide air and water porosity.
TACOE
Member
Well, I meant using any sort of woody material in the mix. - N theft not being an issue is relative to your situation then. I believe it is fact that it will happen.. Yes, very slowly.. but why let it happen at all? "That shit just stole my nitrogen"
In the past I had thought bark sounded great for drain/aer.. but I think I learned otherwise since then.. who knows. proceed with caution. I have never heard of anyone actually doing it, and my intuition tells me not to experiment with it.. too many other viable options.
But I'll look into 2ndtry.
In the past I had thought bark sounded great for drain/aer.. but I think I learned otherwise since then.. who knows. proceed with caution. I have never heard of anyone actually doing it, and my intuition tells me not to experiment with it.. too many other viable options.
But I'll look into 2ndtry.
madliberated
Member
look into AL on gardenweb he is a pine bark fines artist. His soil mixes don't support a perched water table, so he can have crazy small containers.
2ndtry had an organic mix that likewise did not support perched water. That means you can provide maximum water whie still supporting maximum root health.
Lots of commercial mixes use pine bark fines. The finer stuff is just like peat, while the bigger chunks closer to 1/8th" are what Gardenweb Al uses for long term plantings like bonsai.
Peat breaks down. I am assuming it uses N to do so, and faster than pine bark since it breaks down faster.
2ndtry had an organic mix that likewise did not support perched water. That means you can provide maximum water whie still supporting maximum root health.
Lots of commercial mixes use pine bark fines. The finer stuff is just like peat, while the bigger chunks closer to 1/8th" are what Gardenweb Al uses for long term plantings like bonsai.
Peat breaks down. I am assuming it uses N to do so, and faster than pine bark since it breaks down faster.
TACOE
Member
I stand corrected: (but see the last sentence)
from the attra potting mix website:
"Composted pine bark. Composted pine bark has a high lignin content, making it slow to degrade. Bark lightens the mix, increases air space, and decreases water-holding capacity. It may be substituted, in part, for peat moss. Rynk specifically recommends it as a component in blends for potted herbaceous and woody ornamentals (3). Composted pine bark appears to impart some disease resistance (10). Its pH is generally 5.0 to 6.5, and it is low in soluble salts. Mixes using composted pine bark will probably require more nitrogen supplementation."
I'll go back to my corner.
from the attra potting mix website:
"Composted pine bark. Composted pine bark has a high lignin content, making it slow to degrade. Bark lightens the mix, increases air space, and decreases water-holding capacity. It may be substituted, in part, for peat moss. Rynk specifically recommends it as a component in blends for potted herbaceous and woody ornamentals (3). Composted pine bark appears to impart some disease resistance (10). Its pH is generally 5.0 to 6.5, and it is low in soluble salts. Mixes using composted pine bark will probably require more nitrogen supplementation."
I'll go back to my corner.
Recently added a healthy portion of what I would call half broken down pine "fines" to my mix...no troubles here.
madliberated
Member
Finally! pine bark fines!
nitrogen supplementation?
say, like a living mulch of clover?
nitrogen supplementation?
say, like a living mulch of clover?
For anyone else interested: http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/contain/msg0715434425632.html?69
TACOE
Member
That's a good idea I would think. You could cut and work it in as needed.
But I was just thinkin throw a little extra blood meal in.. or maybe soak the fines in fish hydro. so they got some N to use.
As is usual for me, I would probably test it first on a lone plant without N supplementation.. see what happens then make adjustments
madliberated
Member
my soils are always loaded with biotone. Lots of N! Also, roots are always being sloughed off and new ones growing. So having clover fixing N is a bit like a drip feed.
Ya... lol ... well I read that thread many times over a few years ago and after trying two or three times with pine bark .... Ill never use it again. Magnificent results before hand, and magnificent results afterwords .... I completely wasted my time and energy using them.
Nutrient rob was very bad and I constantly had lockout problems from the acidity...
Sure you can combat both those problems ... but why create a situation where you need to.
Straight promix with some damn tomato tone did better!
Nutrient rob was very bad and I constantly had lockout problems from the acidity...
Sure you can combat both those problems ... but why create a situation where you need to.
Straight promix with some damn tomato tone did better!
