Sunshine Mix #4 Advanced

[bobbyblaze]

Hi all.
Well heres the thing. Was at the hydro store picking up some ferts and soil, went to go grab my usual cube of pro mix hp. Then the sales man come up to me and totally sells me on SS #4 Advanced (guy should have been working on a car lot). So anyways I figure why not. So I go home and mix everything up as I usually do 6 parts dirt 2 parts perlite 2 parts EWC and 2 tbs per gallon maybe a lil bit more by accident of Dolomite lime.

Okay i used this mix to plant my clones in, and I planted 4 seeds. Every single thing that was put in the dirt died. Seeds didnt pop, all clones lasted about a week and then shriveled up..

I have never ever had this problem before, I've put cuttings with 1 root tip showing straight into dirt and had no problems in pro mix mixed the same. This is my heartiest strain, never had any problems with it.

So the only thing I can think of, is SS #4 Advanced come with Dolomite lime in it already I come to find out. Which I did not know when I mixed it. So could me adding more Dolomite lime make my soil inhabitable? Your thoughts?

 

[madliberated]

Sunshine Mix #4 Advanced

you probably just forgot to plant during the right moon cycle.

 

[Deft]

you probably just forgot to plant during the right moon cycle.

LMFAO

 

[cjk]

i don't think your problem is the dolomite. sunshine 4 already has enough dolomite in it as it is a ready to use growers mix. i think your problem lies in adding more perlite to the mix. the ss 4 is sold as a high porosity mix meaning it already has extra perlite for increased aeration. when you added 2 parts more you probably made the soil very hard to keep moist for seedling and young cuttings. go back to the store, grab the pro mix or the ss4 (they're basically the same thing except the ss4 is lighter than basic promix, ss4 would be more like promix HP which has extra perlite for increased aeration) and use it straight out of the bag. if you want to add anything just add the EWC, guanos, or whatever organic ammendments you like to use. hope this helps...

 

[madliberated]

well that doesn't square. When you have a fast mix, you find yourself watering often, but more perlite should not cause instant death. I used to root cuttings in straight perlite.

 

[bobbyblaze]

i don't think your problem is the dolomite. sunshine 4 already has enough dolomite in it as it is a ready to use growers mix. i think your problem lies in adding more perlite to the mix. the ss 4 is sold as a high porosity mix meaning it already has extra perlite for increased aeration. when you added 2 parts more you probably made the soil very hard to keep moist for seedling and young cuttings. go back to the store, grab the pro mix or the ss4 (they're basically the same thing except the ss4 is lighter than basic promix, ss4 would be more like promix HP which has extra perlite for increased aeration) and use it straight out of the bag. if you want to add anything just add the EWC, guanos, or whatever organic ammendments you like to use. hope this helps...

Hmm, I don't know. I know that Pro Mix worked well, best when I add my amendments (EWC, Perlite, Dolomite) I keep the soil wet so the rapid rooters dont dry out, so i really dont think it is a aeration problem but I could be wrong. I've seen threads on here where people grow in 50/50 mix of perlite and vermiculite, thats got to be a pretty airy mix? This has just got me trying to figure out what happened. What is the difference between SS #4 and SS #4 Advanced?

And to the comment about the moon cycle, that was very helpful thanks.

 

[madliberated]

And to the comment about the moon cycle, that was very helpful thanks.

aw, come on, it's friday night.

I'm sorry!


Why not get a bale of peat, a bunch of turface/DE, and add your compost and such?

Definitely the more advanced a bagged soil is the more advanced its killing powers will be.

 

[cjk]

well that doesn't square. When you have a fast mix, you find yourself watering often, but more perlite should not cause instant death. I used to root cuttings in straight perlite.

rooting in perlite works great but it has to be kept moist usually with some sort of wicking reservoir to get good results and prevent the cuttings from drying out. the seeds not popping and cuttings shriveling up within a week point toward dry conditions given the availible information from his post. we all know seedlings and cuttings like it moist and this mix is definatley on the aerated side which is great but maybe too much for the babies unless they were well tended to. hearing more from the original poster would be great feedback about my opinions... again, hope this helps

 

[madliberated]

the OP pointed out that he was keeping the soil wet.

 

[cjk]

Hmm, I don't know. I know that Pro Mix worked well, best when I add my amendments (EWC, Perlite, Dolomite) I keep the soil wet so the rapid rooters dont dry out, so i really dont think it is a aeration problem but I could be wrong. I've seen threads on here where people grow in 50/50 mix of perlite and vermiculite, thats got to be a pretty airy mix? This has just got me trying to figure out what happened. What is the difference between SS #4 and SS #4 Advanced?

And to the comment about the moon cycle, that was very helpful thanks.

vermiculite is used for holding water. it counteracts the perlite. of course this medium will have to be more tended to in respects to moisture management and fertilizing. it's more along the lines of a hydro medium...

 

[cjk]

oh and the advanced just has mycorrhizae added so if it's a comparable price, just go with the advanced.

 

[bobbyblaze]

aw, come on, it's friday night.

I'm sorry!


Why not get a bale of peat, a bunch of turface/DE, and add your compost and such?

Definitely the more advanced a bagged soil is the more advanced its killing powers will be.

Lol I was just messin with ya. Thanks for the replys guys.

I know what I'm going to do just go back to the Pro Mix, its cheaper anyways.

Im just trying to figure this out, more than likely a moisture problem. What would tooo much dolomite lime do? can it cause problems or is it pretty fail safe?

 

[cjk]

dolomite lime breaks down very slow making the chances of burning unlikely with the seemingly negligible amount you added. hydrated lime on the other hand can burn very easily. just watch for ph lockouts because of the lime creating an overly alkaline ph. if ph swings and lockouts seem like there occuring try and counteract it by by using plenty of liquid organic nutrients to help counteract the alkalinity. shouldn't be a problem though as peat is super acidic which is why the lime is called for in the first place.

 

[bigghead]

check the ppm . i have seen sunshine mix as high as 2000 ppm

 

[creep]

Sunshine #4 and Sunshine Advanced are not meant for seed starting... They are packaged "hot" and as such it will kill new seedlings or lackluster clones.

Did you tell the salesman that you were looking to start seeds?

 

[bobbyblaze]

Sunshine #4 and Sunshine Advanced are not meant for seed starting... They are packaged "hot" and as such it will kill new seedlings or lackluster clones.

Did you tell the salesman that you were looking to start seeds?

I didn't tell him that. At the time I didn't think of it. I've started dozen of seeds in Promix and ewc with no problem, so I figured this Sunshine mix would be similar.

 

[cjk]

Sunshine #4 and Sunshine Advanced are not meant for seed starting... They are packaged "hot" and as such it will kill new seedlings or lackluster clones.

Did you tell the salesman that you were looking to start seeds?

ehhh ss4 is not really THAT hot. i've never had problems popping seeds in it or taking cuttings. i've used it for numerous coleus cuttings in the retail nursery world. with that being said, a soil being hot won't prevent the seed from popping and breaking ground which has occured here. it will however pose problems once the first or second leaf sets appear. i think your best bet is to just go back to pro mix because that's what your comfortable with eventhough they're extremely similar...

 

[cjk]

the starter nutrient charge is just an organic ammendment in the advanced version so i doubt it's as hot as the reg ss4... just a thought.

 

[madliberated]

tell us again what the moon was doing when you planted?

 

[nogoodname]

I recently made my switch to SS Advanced. I used SS #4 for the last ten or so years, I love the consistancy of the product. I amend almost exactly as you do. (I add 1 part vermiblend and 1 part mushroom compost as well as fishmeal and kelp meal) and have had no problems whatsoever. My advice is not to just give up because of a bad experience. It is a great blend. The other thing I would recommend is that you start seeds or just rooted clones into solo cups with just the base soil (SS Advanced) and transplant into 1 or perhaps 3 gallon pots with amended soil. This will give the little guys time to develop roots and an appetite for nutrients. Remember, the little ones need next to nothing but a good base mix for their first week or so. Try this recipe for the SS #4 Advanced:

6 parts SS Advanced
2 parts perlite
1 part mushroom compost
1 part vermiblend
2 tbs dolomite per gallon of mix
1 tbs kelp meal per gallon of mix
1 tbs fishmeal per gallon of soil
1 tbs trace minerals per gallon of soil
For every 10-11 gallons of soil add 1 cup of guanos. For the guanos, just pick up the 4 pack with jamaican, indonesian, ect and add a 1/4 cup of each. I also like to substitute at least one tablespoon of the high nitrogen guano for a tablespoon of alfalfa meal and the same with the high p guano and bonemeal. Works like a dream, literally just add water(and molasses)!