SOG with straight rockwool, how?

[ShortStackz]

currently im runing ebb n flo buckets. Looking to switch over to sog but with just rockwool and elimanate hydroton completly. All the grows ive found all seem to also use hydroton for the bed. So what im asking is how would you do a sog, 4x4 area, 1kw, about 50-60 plants with just rockwool? Flood & drain , drip? cubes or slabs? also if you got links to similar grows with only rockwool please post them. thank you

 

[Marshall]

are you going to switch to a table?

 

[ShortStackz]

ya i plan on getting a table

 

[dune]

For a Sog Flood is ur best friend if you were scrogging with fewer plants id go with a drip to waste.

Some might say to hand water the buggers but when that canopy is crazy thick it gets to be a pain. but krunch has great success at it.

Also something i like to do is, throwing down under the cubes is a 4x4 coco mat. makes it easier to get 4 foot long roots for my system. and allows me to get the first 1inch of just roots and coco wet during the day after the big feed (every little bit helps).

 

[Herbsman_OS]

I used to use 4"X4" cubes placed on top of slabs. Similar to the Coco mat scenario, but you'd have to use more slabs to completely cover your area.

 

[mcattak]

With 50 or 60 in the 4x4 I would probably flood slabs with 3x3...Those slabs might not need to be flooded but once every 3 to 4 days at the beginning...

mc

 

[ShortStackz]

Cool. thanks guys I still got another 2 months to decide which way to go. Also considering an aero system but either way the hydroton gots to go. too much work

 

[Oldmac]

Hey ShortStackz,

I'm really not sure why all the answers to your SOG question indicate a need to place the blocks on a slab. IMHO it is not necessary, you can grow a complete small plant in just a 4" sq delta block.

SOG, at least to me indicates growing a small plant quickly, and getting as many as possible in the area to create a uniform canopy that uses the avaiable light to it's fullest.

In my personal grow, I use RW in what I consider a three stage process.
1) cuttings are rooted in macro plugs placed in grodan trays made for that purpose.
2) when roots start to show, it is time to "transplant" into 4" delta blocks. They are vegged till rooted to the blocks and allowed to grow 6" to 9" depending on strain. BTW I use cuttings from a few moms that are from one grandmother, to insure consistent growth and height to mantain my canopy.
3)blocks are placed in flower, in my case a GI Grow rotating garden, and finish about 16" +/- an inch or two. Single cola "plantlets" grown completely in a 4" rockwell block.

I understand your frustration with hydrotron, that is how I have felt about RW for the last bunch of years. For the last few years I've been building aero/fog and plain aero grow tables for others and my partnered grow. Having to deal with no media, just 2" foam collars and empty net pots for plant support, has been a great improvement and I look forward to retiring the GI Grow.

OM

 

[9240GrnMachine]

most people add the coca mats to protect the roots from the light. if you are doing sog the cubes will be so close together (take off the plastic if touching each other) no light should be hitting the roots cause the tray wont be exposed to it. Hope that makes sense.

 

[Doyu]

I'm doing a journal right now...not a perfect SOG, I keep the blocks spaced out a bit and in this grow topped many of the plants (I explain why in the journal) but click the link in my sig to take a look.

 

[ShortStackz]

Thanks guys for the help. Doyu, I'll check out your thread.

 

[ShortStackz]

Oldmac, what was the problem you had with rockwool? Also you said the clones were allowed to root into the 4" cubes then grown to about 6-9" then flowered, did the cubes look overwhelmed with roots? thanks

 

[Oldmac]

There are/where a couple of problems.

First disposal of the used blocks, they contain a short pce of stem and all those roots. Not the type of garbage, even wraped neatly or in a garbage pail, you want to leave out at your curb. Took me a over a year to figure out I could burn them in a garbage burn barrel, get them really hot, then smash them with a 2x4. Blocks break down to sand and roots are incinerated. Then shovel out sand from barrel.

Second is just the pain of having to lug boxes of them down into my grow area (was fall out shelter) then lug boxes of used back out again. I am just too old for that stuff now a days.

Third is cost, why pay for a grow medium when in reality you can grow without it.

The blocks are full of roots, with only a few coming out the bottom, but not overwhelmed. The total veg time from transplant is only a week or two (strain dependent). My typical flower period is 8 weeks.

BTW, each of my runs are 144 plants, all of the above just adds up.

Now (in my parntered grow) all I use are 2" foam collars (Blackstars) and 2" net pots. The collars are reuseable but I shit can the net pots (12 cnts each) with the root mat. They could be reused, but the time it takes to cut the roots away makes that uneconomical.

I have an album that shows the makeing of "Fogfognugen" my aero/fog trays; 2-4'x4' trays with 138 plant sites each, 276 total. Currently we have 2, that's 4 trays and and 2 trays are stacked above each other. Total 552 grow sites, in a 4'x8' foot print. The way it's set up, we have one tray finish every two weeks.

@9240, my blocks do sit side by side touching, and I leave the plastic on so they don't grow together, it would only make removal a pain. Google GI Grow 144 and get an idea how the blocks are placed. This is very much like the omega, but my ferris wheel lacks a "dunk tank" at the bottom (for ebb/flow) and instead feeds the bottom of the cube at the top of it's ride, drip to waste. Plus I've modified it in several ways.

OM

 

[ShortStackz]

Thanks alot, I guess right now im willing to put up with the rockwool over hydroton but most likely in the long run will get tired of it like you. Still some time to decide since the switch to either a flood table or aero would cost me about the same give or take $50 with the equipment I already got.

By the way I know that going straight h20 is the way to go to get away from rw & other mediums but anything you found negative about it?

 

[Oldmac]

Yes, teething problems mostly. I had been rooting cuts in a couple of EZ-clonners and had a major problem when they were placed into aero with wilting. The start roots from the clonner are all tap or water roots and they needed to adopt to just a mist or fog. Many did but it took time for that to happen before taking off and some just died.

The next experimental run (we were working with just one tray) we started the cuts right in fogfognugen. They rooted fine, and showed lateral roots, some fish boneing and ladder type roots along with the water roots. Once roots where started and then "plantlets" vegged for 10 days, hair or air roots started, we went to 12/12. No delays in time, they took off and grew very well with good weight, for their size. But it would be impossible to do a continous type grow like that, all the trays would have to start together and end together. It would work with a smaller grow set up if you just ran it start (cut) to finish (chop). In fact I've built a couple of 2'x2' trays for other people to use that way. They are happy to root cuttings and grow in the same tray.

This confirmed to me that I needed to either add fog to the clonners or change it to high pressure aero. I chosse to screw with the clonners, changed nozzle size and style and added a different pump.

Nowadays, it's dialed in and very automated. My partner who was a "dirt farmer" (containers Pro-Mix), HPS "grow a bush" kinda guy is now a believer. One tray (4x4) produces more finished bud wgt then he can get in a 4x8 bush grow.

OM

 

[Oldmac]

Mostly had teething problems with the first experimental run, using just one tray. I had been rooting cuts in a couple of ez-clonners and when placed into the aero/fog tray they suffered wilt off (that delayed thier growing while they accumated to the aero) and some died. The roots from an ez-clonner are all tap or water roots so they could not process water in the form of a mist.

The second run we decided to start the cuttings right in the tray and after 24/0 actinic white, they started to show water roots, we went to 18/6 with some T5 and within a few more days roots were showing laterals, ladders and fish bones. By the time they were tall enougth (8" or so) they had started nice hair or air roots. Then 12/12 and off to the races. Finished wgts were good and everything went well. Only problem was you can't do a perpetual harvest since all the trays would have to start and finish together, plain impossible.

I have built some 2'x2' trays for a couple of other people who are running start to finish (cut to chop). They like keeping an area for mothers and the convenence to veg and flower in the same tray.

I knew for sure that I needed to either add fog or convert the clonners to aero. I choose to change the spray nozzles to smaller opening impingment nozzles and add a high pressure pump. I now get clones that show finer roots and don't wilt off when going to the tray(s) and take off growing quicker.

My partner in this is a "dirt farmer" (containers w/Pro-Mix) who used to grow HPS and bushes. One 4'x4' tray produces more dry/finnished wgt then his 4'x8' bush grows. He's a believer now.

OM

 

[chosen]

Slabs work, but i'm not a big fan of it either. If you want to move your plants around, their rooted into the slab. The extra expense as well. You can go with the cube or even a cube into reusable net pots. The cubes are stable enough for single cola grows and easy to move around.