Nute deficiency???..Lucas Formula..Pics

[killa killa kk]

Calculated EC/TDS levels:

EC microsiemen:
0-4-8: 946 µS
0-5-10: 1184 µS
0-8-16: 1894 µS

TDS @ 0.5 conversion:
0-4-8 = 473 ppm
0-5-10 = 592 ppm
0-8-16 = 947 ppm

TDS @ 0.7 conversion:
0-4-8 = 663 ppm
0-5-10 = 829 ppm
0-8-16 = 1326 ppm

I am running at .5 conversion and started with a 2/4 ml per gallon right after transplanting. I added a little bit more at a 1:2 ratio to raise nutes up to the 400 ppm to where im at now..My bigger plants are the ones that are burnt more so I was thinking there wasn't enough nutes in my batch from the start. Should I do a res change and switch to the 8/16 per gallon raising my ppms to the proper range??? or is adding cal mag at a lower ppm a good way to fix my problem???Thats what I need cleared up..+rep to everyone that helps

 

[Saran]

The Lucas Ratio or "Formula" is 100N-100P-200K-60Mg or as close as possible . This profile can be mixed without using any of the GH products . Remember it is strength of individual elements we are concerned not the amount of a nutrient product used .

This must be calculated based on the chemical analysis of the fertilizer and amount added per gal . Any dilution or reduction in added nutrient will change the calculation and the ppm/EC reading and of course the strength of individual N-P-K and Mg strengths .

Hence a dilution or reduction in added nutrient is no longer the Lucas Formula 100N-100P-200K-60Mg .

Based on using the Micro and Bloom parts of the 3 part flora series fertilizer, which of the below is closest to 100N-100P-200K-60Mg ?
(Yup I ran them thru the calculator)

TDS @ 0.5 conversion:
0-4-8 = 473 ppm = 65N - 53P - 92K - 36Mg
0-5-10 = 592 ppm = 81N - 66P - 114K - 46Mg
0-8-16 = 947 ppm = 130N-128P-161K-73Mg

The 0-5-10 mix is very close but would need to be supplemented with a product like Cal-mag and some Kool Bloom to get the K&Mg numbers up a bit closer .

The 0-8-16 mix which is accepted as the "close as needed" to the True Lucas Ratio and will work well with no additives

 

[Dankgravy]

The Lucas Ratio or "Formula" is 100N-100P-200K-60Mg or as close as possible . This profile can be mixed without using any of the GH products . Remember it is strength of individual elements we are concerned not the amount of a nutrient product used .

This must be calculated based on the chemical analysis of the fertilizer and amount added per gal . Any dilution or reduction in added nutrient will change the calculation and the ppm/EC reading and of course the strength of individual N-P-K and Mg strengths .

Hence a dilution or reduction in added nutrient is no longer the Lucas Formula 100N-100P-200K-60Mg .

Based on using the Micro and Bloom parts of the 3 part flora series fertilizer, which of the below is closest to 100N-100P-200K-60Mg ?
(Yup I ran them thru the calculator)



The 0-5-10 mix is very close but would need to be supplemented with a product like Cal-mag and some Kool Bloom to get the K&Mg numbers up a bit closer .

The 0-8-16 mix which is accepted as the "close as needed" to the True Lucas Ratio and will work well with no additives

Thank you. Also worth mentioning is that "Lucas Formula" is actually a growing philosophy, not just a formula. Also it is based off Mel Frank's targets. However, while Lucas recommends one ratio for all stages of growth, Mel Franks has several different recommendations depending on stage of growth.

 

[Dankgravy]

no not that: Dankgravy. I wanna see anybodys rooted clone get plunked into 1200ppm.
I know the profile is based 8/16; however, that meters too hot for most of us. The fx works dilute for vegging w/ a little N it gets from calmg.

you guys remember the thread w/ lucas and pete moss?

was that here or OG?

fuck, i didn't know there would be test on this....I woulda studied harder.

Uhhhh my clones and many other people's get dropped straight into 1200ppm every time.

The reason people have the myth stuck in their head that clones need low ppms is that other feeding schedules burn the plant not by having too high of ppms, but by having too high of concentrations of certain nutrients.. If you are running at 1200ppm, but the plant is only getting what it needs, it is not going to burn it..

So yes, I am dead serious

 

[Dankgravy]

Im not trying to make this hard just clearing it up for myself and any other readers on this forum

Honestly the mis-information out there about Lucas/Mel Franks is so ridiculous. I keep telling myself that I am going to write an easy to follow explanation of Lucas/Franks, but I am way too lazy to actually get down to it.. Threads are great, but not many people are willing to sift through fifty pages to get the info needed

 

[itisme]

The leaves start out green and the older leaves start yellowing at the tips.....very similar to over nute but not... That has been what mine are doing.

I had been feeding mine on a light dose of Lucas and I was getting the exact same issue. I think they are being starved so I upped my mix to 1050 or so as I didn't want to run full blast just yet......Here is hoping for us both I just reset the rez and did a 5 mic 3 bloom 10 gro and some cal mag- I think I may need to add some more I was just worried to after increasing the nutes so much. My buddy has run that mix for veg and he is really good.

 

[killa killa kk]

Uhhhh my clones and many other people's get dropped straight into 1200ppm every time.

The reason people have the myth stuck in their head that clones need low ppms is that other feeding schedules burn the plant not by having too high of ppms, but by having too high of concentrations of certain nutrients.. If you are running at 1200ppm, but the plant is only getting what it needs, it is not going to burn it..

So yes, I am dead serious

This is exactly what I was trying to figure out. Thanks Dankgravy. I believe If I up my nutes and actually use the correct 8/16 formula not half ass it and I think I will get the results ive been looking for. I just needed to hear its ok to dunk clones into that high ppm right from the beginning.....Now I was reading that 15ml 10ml 5ml formula used for veg with Lucas is the new currect formula? Would that be ok to switch into instead the 8/16??

 

[killa killa kk]

The leaves start out green and the older leaves start yellowing at the tips.....very similar to over nute but not... That has been what mine are doing.

I had been feeding mine on a light dose of Lucas and I was getting the exact same issue. I think they are being starved so I upped my mix to 1050 or so as I didn't want to run full blast just yet......Here is hoping for us both I just reset the rez and did a 5 mic 3 bloom 10 gro and some cal mag- I think I may need to add some more I was just worried to after increasing the nutes so much. My buddy has run that mix for veg and he is really good.

I am hoping for the same thing...you are using the 3 part system all together with the grow too??

 

[itisme]

I am now. I was trying the Lucas and a light dose but I messed up two fold. I undershot the gallons I added to and I was going light. I only went very light on his ratio. He said he would do 100 gallons of water but only 80 gallons of his formula, then if they needed it stronger he would increase it but rarely if ever needed to. I mixed up 15g and 12 gallon ratio with calmag and I am at 1050ppm not the full 1200ppm

I have well water with IRON so I RO it starts about 10ppm - I may need to add some calmag as I dd it lighter than the other stuff (3tbs 12 gallons). It will probably hit 1200 ppms if I do.

 

[killa killa kk]

Itisme- I did that same ratio for 9 gallons without the cal mag, 15ml 10ml 5ml per gallon and then diluted with a couple extra gallons of water and my ppms went down to 900 @.5

 

[Dankgravy]

This is exactly what I was trying to figure out. Thanks Dankgravy. I believe If I up my nutes and actually use the correct 8/16 formula not half ass it and I think I will get the results ive been looking for. I just needed to hear its ok to dunk clones into that high ppm right from the beginning.....Now I was reading that 15ml 10ml 5ml formula used for veg with Lucas is the new currect formula? Would that be ok to switch into instead the 8/16??

That new formula you speak of doesnt come from Lucas.. The latest incarnation of Lucas formula is 8ml (i think I'm not sure of the exact # as i still run 3-part) of floranova grow to begin and then all addbacks are with floranova bloom.

But Lucas formula (its actually PH's formula as he was Lucas' mentor) is just based off Mel Franks' targets. The reason Lucas formula has become so popular is because it is able to hit Mel Frank's FLOWER targets in a such an easy and cost effective way. Like I mentioned earlier, Mel Franks had a few different ratios based on different stages of growth, but because Lucas didn't veg for long periods of time he stuck with just the flower ratios. Many people have reported that they run straight Lucas formula through veg with no problems, but many people report that Lucas formula is lacking during veg. The solution to this would be to find out Mel Franks' targets for veg and plug nutrients into the equation until you find a combination that closely hits those ratios.

Saran might be the one to talk to on that, because i don't veg and I am selfish and lazy so I probably wont get around to figuring it out for someone else.. haha. At least I am honest though..

 

[DigDuggreen]

if all else fails you could just go by whats recommended on the label, GH is a good nutrient and from what Ive read and understand the lucas formula is cutting out a twelve dollar bottle of grow, because you can double up on the bloom and achieve basically the same thing. Obviously this method is not working quite right, so follow whats un the bottle or feed chart, throw in a bit of cal/mag depending on your water and let it do its thing. Ive tried just about every nute out there in search of the best shit and have come to realize that it doesnt matter its all the same crap some worse then others, so now im shooting for simplicity.

 

[Sgt.Stedenko]

Simplicity is why Lucas works. With the right tap, you dont need anything but micro and bloom. Maybe some epson if there's not enough Mg in your tap.
Fuck all those additives and snake oils.

 

[DigDuggreen]

10-4

 

[jm420]

> I just added 30ml of micro and 15 ml of bloom to my 10 gallon resevoir. I also added about 8ml of epsom salt and about 10ml of 3% H202.

I recommend you use 50ml of micro for your 10 gallons, plus 100ml of Bloom, while under fluoros

there is no reason to add epsom or peroxide to that mix

I DO NOT recommend using weaker versions of the formula

it is a MYTH that seedlings dont need food. Weak food causes deficiencies, which leads to additives, which all could have been avoided by using the nutes at the recommended strength

DONT second guess the nutes advice you get, by reducing the strength

and DO correct the ratio of nutes, so there is twice as much bloom as micro, your post indicates you used twice as much micro as bloom, which is backwards

> Why are the leaves on one of my ak48's curving downward?!

maybe the light above them is too dim/far away, so they are looking for light from the sides

based on your low nute feeding levels, I dont think the brown tips are from a nute overdose, more likely from a shortage of nutes

its simpler to figure out what is wrong with the plants environment if you eliminate the guesswork around the nutes, by using a proven formula at full strength, under good light

your plants look very good btw, keep learning
hth
Lucas
__________________
pH's spreadsheet http://www.angelfire.com
Heres lucas's answer to the same ?

 

[allouez]

This thread is far too confusing. Everyone is speaking a different language. All these PPM numbers with different EC conversions. Then someone said earlier in the thread that the original full strength Lucas formula is over 2 EC! Which is twice as high as what I calculated it to be with GH's website calculator. I mixed an 8/16 Lucas yesterday and it came out to be about 550ppm, about 1.1EC. I probably under-measured because it should be closer to 1.25EC

Is Calmag necessary with Lucas formula?

 

[zbenjii]

supposedly lucas has too much phosphorus and too little potassium

 

[jm420]

Starting a Medical Cabinet and Bubbler Principles by Lucas
have you read this?

 

[itisme]

So I have been having the leaves brown form the bottom up just like you described, I have also read about 10 other threads and NOBODY HAS SAID WTF is causing this for sure.......WTF can I do to stop my leaves from browning and my plants looking like shit????

I have read so many threads and no real answers have come out of any of them.

 

[jm420]

Starting a Medical Cabinet and Bubbler Principles by Lucas
have you read this?

kiss