Edges of leaves curling upwards, advise appreciated! :-)

[mage]

I'm having an issue with my seedling where the leaf edge to the side are curling upwards. on the new growth there is no "nute burn" type effect however the older 1st set of leaves is now looking a little odd.

I am using way under strength nutes. It's supposed to be a 3ml:1Lt ratio full strength and mine is 0.2ml:1Lt to keep the ppm down. I am also running
Rhizotonic (4mL:1Lt full str)
Cannazyme (2.5mL:1Lt full str)
PsychoVEG (10mL:10Lt half str)

PPM is at 180

The pH raises daily from when i set it in the morning to 5.5 to 6.8 when i check it in the evening.

You will see there are no yellowing of tips or deficient type effects on the leafs and they look healthy, apart from the fact they roll upwards.

The seedling went into the pot at 7 days when the root dropped out of the bottom of the 2.5" rock wool cube. I then watered it by hand for 2 days twice daily, then i switch on the pump connected to the ring below the rockwool cube, as to not get the rockwool cube drenched. at 14 days i turn on the second pump which delivers water to the top. I have a guard that sits around the plant so it does not get wet.

I have supplied more than enough room from the light to the plant to ensure it doesnt burn.

Picture at the bottom, data below and any input is appreciated.



How long has this problem been going on? 1 week
Are you growing in a PVC grow tent? No
What system are you running? Waterfarm
What STRAIN are you growing? Unknown
What was the establishing technique? Seed
What is the age of your plants? 2 weeks from germ)
How long have they been in there mixture they are in now? 0-4 days sml rockwool cube | 5-7 days large rock wool cube | 7-14 Lrg rock wool cube in hydroton
How tall are the plants? 3" (up to 3rd set of leaves not incl sun leaves)
What PHASE are the plants in? Seedling
What substrate/medium are you using Rockwool + Hydroton
What color are your roots? Unknown
Are your roots slimy? Unknown
What Nutrient's are you using? Canna A + B
How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water?
3mL Total Nutrient for 18 Litres of water
The label says use a ratio of 3ml:1Lt so i am way understrength.
How often are you feeding? Timer is 15 mins on for every 45 mins off
How often are you giving nutrients? I have two pumps conected to two rings, one above and one directly below the rock wool cube. This is to direct water to the hydroton without getting the rockwool cube saturated.
What is the TDS/EC/PPM you are using? 170 PPM
What is the pH of the "Tank"? i drop it to 5.5 daily, it raises to 6.8ish every 24 hrs.
How often are you testing your pH/PPM/EC/TDS? weekly
Are you sure your calibration is correct on your equipment? positive.
When was your last feeding change?
How often do you clean your system:? two weeks ago
What size bulb are you using? 400 Watt
How old is the bulbs you are using? 6 years
What is the distance to the canopy? 80cm/ 32"
What is your RH Factor(Relative Humidity)? Unknown
What is the canopy temperature?
What is the Day/Night Temp? 19 Deg Cel - 16 deg Cel
Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ? 6" fan ducting into roof, 15 mins on 1.75 hours off
Is the fan blowing directly at plants? nope
Is your water HARD or SOFT? soft
What water are you using? Tap water
If using tap water, what is the ppm/EC/TDS of the water right out of the tap? PPM 55
Are you using water from a water softener? No
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned off of or pinched? No
Have any pest chemicals been used? No
Are plant's infected with pest's? No

 

[mage]

Is it normal for the first set of leaves to die when then 3rd set are thrown out?

 

[captaincaveman]

yea the first set die off.but that leave curl isnt. is there a lot of humidity in the room

 

[iSMOKE.KUSH]

why is your ph rising from 5.5-6.8 evry 24 hours?? the reason ph usually rises is because plants eat the nutrients in the water, but there is no way your little girl is eating enough to raise the ph that much. since you are adding so much ph down to your water i imagine that it is affecting the plants health. how often do you change the water?

my 2 cents.

 

[mage]

Thanks for the replies.

Last night in the 24hr period the ph rose from 5.5-6.5. I think it is rising because of the hydroton which I presoaked for two months to reduce the ph rising effect it has on the water. Considering the tap water I use has a ph of up to 8-8.5 and the fact that fresh hydroton is notorious for rising the ph I don't think an imbalance of +1.0 is too bad.

Ill take a pic this evening of the plastic cup with bottom cut out that I place around the plant to prevent it from getting sprayed by the water jets, I think this is causing high humidity around the plant.

I thought it could be from me feeding it not enough food but the plant is growing at a rappid pace still.

I change the tank weekly and will clean it out this week.

Post up the tank temp when I get home

Many thanks for the replies

 

[mage]

I showed the pics to the hydro sho dude and he thinks it's either a heat problem or a spider mite problem. I'll get the magnifying glass out when I get home I guess

 

[kmk420kali]

I showed the pics to the hydro sho dude and he thinks it's either a heat problem or a spider mite problem. I'll get the magnifying glass out when I get home I guess

It is in fact a heat issue-- click this link, and scroll down til you find heat stress (I added a pic, to make it easier to find--) https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=11688
There is nothing there to suggest mites...he is just trying to work you for a li'l extra $$--

 

[mage]

Yeah nice I'll get the thermometer out when I get home and post up some temps. Thanks!

 

[mage]

Ok, i have the temp info

Ambient - 25.5 C / 78 F
Tank - 25 C / 77 F
Plant - 27.5 C / 82 F

here some pics of how it looks today, you can see its still growing but the first set of leaves has taken a turn for the worse, i have included a front and back pic for them.

This is from the top, you can see how bad the first set of leaves look 2.5 weeks into the grow.

This is the back of the first set of leaves

This is the front of the frist set of leaves

 

[mage]

I kind of feel like i am freaking out over nothing regarding the first set of leaves. It's just that on previous grows from some time ago i can remember the first set of leaves staying on the plant for quite a bit longer.

On the second set of leaves the condition hasnt worsened, however as youc an see in the pic the third set are growing with the curling upwards.

I can see in that pic that kmk has posted that my plant is doing the same thing. Im going to hook a fan up in the grow room to push the air around and hopefully cool it down a little.

 

[kmk420kali]

I am a Greenhouse/Soil guy, so if this is a stupid question, I apologize--
But would that not work better if you turned your ring so the jets pointed down??

 

[mage]

that's actually a pretty good point, i can give it a try i guess.

 

[Abja Roots]

I am a Greenhouse/Soil guy, so if this is a stupid question, I apologize--
But would that not work better if you turned your ring so the jets pointed down??

I would think so as well. Missed that upon first glance, but I think you're right. Unless I also don't get it.

As far as the "tacoing" of the leaves. That has usually been a heat issue in my experience.

Nutrient toxicity tends to be evident when the tips of the leaves are sharply turning down. You'll also see some burning on the edges. The leaves will also get a dark green and velvety feel from nitrogen toxicity.

If the whole plant is drooping it could be overwatering.

 

[mage]

I flipped the ring around which i think is a top idea.

I also put a large 'rotating' type house fan in there, and i am going to up my 6" exhaust fan from being on once per 2 hours to once her hour.

I'll post some pics in a few days, + rep for all

 

[greenmatter]

i would agree on the heat issue. how often do you water? i read in your first post that your bulb is 6 years old.... is that a typo?

 

[dansbuds]

I also put a large 'rotating' type house fan in there, and i am going to up my 6" exhaust fan from being on once per 2 hours to once her hour.

run your exhaust fans at least as long as you have your lights on ..... if vegging & lights are on 24hrs ... then your fan runs 24hrs . this will reduce your temps in the room & the circulation fan is a must anyway to help build up the stems & give good airflow amongst the plants .this should solve any overheating probs the plants are having . then you can check other variables the plants might be having.

good luck man .

 

[gardenbug]

First guess would be heat, but your temps aren't that high.
2nd would be too low humidity, but sitting in wet hydroton that shouldn't be a problem.
3rd would be too much light, bulb might be too close.
4th too much air movement, but that doesn't sound like your problem.

With the big ph swings it is probably ph related.
I would say wash the hydroton, but sounds like you already did that. I would flush it all out real well with plain water and remix your nutrients. If you are getting red dust in the water then you didn't wash them good enough.

 

[mage]

Hi thanks for the input

gardenbug - I washed the balls like crazy before going into the set up however this still hasn't stopped the red dust from gathering at the bottom of the tank. I will take your suggestion on board and thoroughly clean out the tank this weekend when i put a fresh tank of water/nutes in.

dansbuds - I like the idea of leaving the fan on 24/7 so you can rule ventilation out as a possible cause. I'll go and adjust the timer now.

greenmatter - No man that's for real, and puting in that answer even made me think. My 600 wat is brand new however a friend who used to grow over half a decade ago lent me his old 400 watter ... and the thing gets bloody hot too! globes are cheap (i think 50-100 bucks right?) i'll go to the hydro shop and replace the globe tommorow to help get a bit less heat.

I went in the room the other day and the paint on the bat wing reflector had actually melted and dripped onto the globe and was sizzling. Man, i thoguth my 600 gets hot but it has never melted the paint.

 

[Headsmcgee1]

It sort of looks like a mag problem to me. I also had this problem in soil about a year ago and I ran a sulphur burner and it took care of the problem. Do you have any green slime or white crystal like build up on your cubes or hydroton?

 

[mage]

I just bought a new 400 watt globe, I'll install it when I get home. The hydro shop dude said that a seven year old globe will emit the wrong or altered light frequency and will generate more heat than anything.

I'll check the res and clay balls for green slime and the crystal like matter when I get home also