Growing huge trees or medium tress in a stadium

[ivanic]

Basically want to convert to vertical. At the moment im getting 1.2gpw on my horizontal setup.

I want to keep plant numbers down to a minimum if i can, less than 100, not sure on the space yet but if you had the choice using a large area and many lights would you either grow medium trees in 5gal smart pots on a closed ended stadium (all sides) or grow large trees in larger smart pots.

Trying to find the balance for space against plant numbers, dont want to many plants but i dont want small yields in a large area.

Basically trying to get the larger yields with less plants. Doesnt have to be massive trees, but 100+ plants are out of the question.

 

[DHF]

Sorry I couldn`t get back to yas on yer visitor message.....Triedta pm but wouldn`t go through either.......

If you`re doin 1.2 on a flat grow , the only way you`ll do better with bare bulbs and less plants is with increased vegtime and the proper strain/variety........

Holler back on what your intentions and strain picks are Bro.......

Peace.....DHF...........

 

[ivanic]

no worries dude, was hoping you would post on this thread.

My 1.2 was 45x11L square plastic pots under 9x600 grostars. Simple. Strain was UK cheese not exactly sure which, what would you class the cheese line in yields terms, medium, high etc?

Not sure on the size yet but if you had 23x23x8 (529square feet) and you wanted to keep plant numbers low but crazy yields how would you go. With space for veg so can do perpetual etc

dont think i can receive pm till my post count goes up bro

 

[DHF]

Think it`s 50 posts before PM priveleges Bro......Cheese is a good yielder , and with that much sq ftg yas can set up several smaller rooms perpetual a month or so apart in age and be harvey`in at least every month or so...

My setups were 8 x 8 on the outside and 6 x 6 on the insides covered in reflectix , and pumped out lil over 6 lbs every 4-5 weeks with only 3-600`s stacked , so yas can see the potential with 4 times that amount of area.....

Of course yas know you`ll need separate Clone/Mom/pre-veg areas so all the bloom rooms can be replanted the day they`re chopped ftw..........

Holler back and let`s see what you`re ableta come up with equipment wise and strain availability numbers wise on a regular basis ta feed the beast and keep the ball rollin.....

Peace...DHF..........

 

[Aerohead]

I will offer an opinion from a first time vert grower:

When my flat gardens were dialed, 1.0 to 1.3 GPW was childs play but it was very strain dependant and took a few runs with the room to get there. This was also using 1500ppm Co2 sealed room with a perfect environment.

I don't believe I could get much more than 1.2 GPW consistently in a flat garden dialed and very busy.

My first vert grow, making plenty of mistakes, is likely to come close to my dialed flat gardens but with much room for improvement and alot less watts from the plug because I'm not running A/C or co2.

I believe you are very close to max yield from a flat garden and the only way for you to break new records is to go vert, even if you initially drop GPW numbers in the beginning, you will be opening up another whole new world when it comes to dialing your grow resources.

Think of it as 3D growing...

 

[DHF]

Respect AH......Not a better way of sayin hands down that simpler is better , and controlling the system and environment leaves X as the variable as ta how much yas can yield once dialed with the proper strain...

3D explains it exactly ..........All 4 walls with plants on enough levels to create a "sideways canopy" from floor ta ceiling......

Sky`s the limit , strain dependent ......

Peace...DHF........

 

[akasomeoneelse]

your harvesting 14.27 lbs off 5400watts? and you want more?? lol go getter...

good luck.. strain dependant for sure.. in my experience. the plants that grow short and compact under horizontal lamps do not always grow the same structure under vertical lights.. itll be a trial and error for sure..

with the numbers your getting already. id say build a small 6x6 vert setup with a couple extra 6's and start smaller with the first vert goes so you dont end up loosing much if anything.. try your strains out and then see how they grow vertically first before making the full room switch...


vertical in my experience also takes higher plant number or alot longer veg time seeing as how there is more canopy per lamp..

 

[ivanic]

Think it`s 50 posts before PM priveleges Bro......Cheese is a good yielder , and with that much sq ftg yas can set up several smaller rooms perpetual a month or so apart in age and be harvey`in at least every month or so...

My setups were 8 x 8 on the outside and 6 x 6 on the insides covered in reflectix , and pumped out lil over 6 lbs every 4-5 weeks with only 3-600`s stacked , so yas can see the potential with 4 times that amount of area.....

Of course yas know you`ll need separate Clone/Mom/pre-veg areas so all the bloom rooms can be replanted the day they`re chopped ftw..........

Holler back and let`s see what you`re ableta come up with equipment wise and strain availability numbers wise on a regular basis ta feed the beast and keep the ball rollin.....

Peace...DHF..........

how long did you veg for with that setup you mentioned mate?

If i went with large trees what size smart pots would you go for? im just going with coco for everything with open ended drip lines. Thats all iv done, don't want to start experimenting with different methods.

Will be just the cheese strain il be running, although iv been considering the G13 strain, you know the £200 for 2 beans. Not sure though, just want a mega yielding 50/50 indica/sativa. Any you recommend.

Ordering a EZ clone soon for my babies. Do you use co2 DHF?

Iv not run co2 on my current setup yet, wonder what increase id get. My current setup is 5 under each light spaced like a "5" on a dice. There about 4.5ft end of flower. Lollipopped aswell.

 

[ivanic]

I will offer an opinion from a first time vert grower:

When my flat gardens were dialed, 1.0 to 1.3 GPW was childs play but it was very strain dependant and took a few runs with the room to get there. This was also using 1500ppm Co2 sealed room with a perfect environment.

I don't believe I could get much more than 1.2 GPW consistently in a flat garden dialed and very busy.

My first vert grow, making plenty of mistakes, is likely to come close to my dialed flat gardens but with much room for improvement and alot less watts from the plug because I'm not running A/C or co2.

I believe you are very close to max yield from a flat garden and the only way for you to break new records is to go vert, even if you initially drop GPW numbers in the beginning, you will be opening up another whole new world when it comes to dialing your grow resources.

Think of it as 3D growing...

i see where you coming from, basically we've maxxed out yield for horizontal, so vertical is beginning of a new level with more room for improvement.

Whats 3D growing?

 

[ivanic]

your harvesting 14.27 lbs off 5400watts? and you want more?? lol go getter...

good luck.. strain dependant for sure.. in my experience. the plants that grow short and compact under horizontal lamps do not always grow the same structure under vertical lights.. itll be a trial and error for sure..

with the numbers your getting already. id say build a small 6x6 vert setup with a couple extra 6's and start smaller with the first vert goes so you dont end up loosing much if anything.. try your strains out and then see how they grow vertically first before making the full room switch...


vertical in my experience also takes higher plant number or alot longer veg time seeing as how there is more canopy per lamp..

how do you think cheese would do in vertical?

You can counter the long veg times by staging some in veg, so when ones getting harvested you switch it with one in veg. Perpetual etc

Going to read heaths tree grow tonight

thanks for the replies

 

[mg75]

imo, plant numbers will out yield veg time so whichever way you cut it, you will lose potential yield once you cut plant numbers. growing trees vertically is not as simple as everyone says... i have multiple broken branches which i have to "mend." this happens especially when you try to cram as many trees as possible (and then tend to them). don't forget that you will lose at least one harvest a year unless you have a big enough veg room to suport the new trees going into the flower room. this veg room needs a large HPS or MH to encourage vegetative growth. i doubt fluorescents will support 4 foot bushes adequately.

are you a commercial grower for profit?
less than 100 plants?
i would do 3 ft bushed in a stadium and go for 4-6 oz a plant. 99 plants x 4 oz = 25 lbs
now the problem is if you can actually fit 99 3ft bushes in your stadium. might be tight.

 

[ivanic]

imo, plant numbers will out yield veg time so whichever way you cut it, you will lose potential yield once you cut plant numbers. growing trees vertically is not as simple as everyone says... i have multiple broken branches which i have to "mend." this happens especially when you try to cram as many trees as possible (and then tend to them). don't forget that you will lose at least one harvest a year unless you have a big enough veg room to suport the new trees going into the flower room. this veg room needs a large HPS or MH to encourage vegetative growth. i doubt fluorescents will support 4 foot bushes adequately.

are you a commercial grower for profit?
less than 100 plants?
i would do 3 ft bushed in a stadium and go for 4-6 oz a plant. 99 plants x 4 oz = 25 lbs
now the problem is if you can actually fit 99 3ft bushes in your stadium. might be tight.

no far from commercial, this setup is a future project. Just getting all the information before hand so i can prepare.

3ft high or wide? How many tiers in the stadium?

My current is pulling 4.7oz a plant at the moment, thats taking up 10x10. With the pots just sat on the floor.

Thinking a stadium will take up some space with the wood shelves and that.

Finding it hard to see how vertical is alot better, i know it defo yields more just a question of how much better

 

[mrktwiz]

Ivanic;

Google or use the IC Mag search feature on; Heath Robinson this guy REGULARLY beat the 1.5 gpw mark on systems that are ridiculouosly easy to build. The first one here is a 4 x 4 square , drip to reservoir running (84?) plants AND ONLY RUNNING 2 600's.....he pulled JUST over 4#'s on this one;

http://strainguide.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/heaths-vertical-racks-strainguide.html

EDIT: Here is a flooded tube design he did and documented;

http://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/149998-heaths-flooded-tube-vertical.html

Here is another one of his designs;

http://strainguide.org/wp-content/uploads/Heath%20goes%20Vertical%20%28again!%29/HomeGrown420%20-%20Heath%20goes.htm

Or here are instruction on how to build the first link 4x4 square I linked, just scroll down to the bottom where is describes HOW to build it. I an going to this system as I am not commercial and my end goal is about 4#'s per run and I LOVE the idea of only using 1200 watts of power also as I am running over 2K atm;

http://strainguide.org/wp-content/uploads/urban grower heath vertical/urbangrower heath.html

I have found that Heath's designs are simply "enlightened" not only are the overall designs very clean, from a design standpoint ( I have a degree in Architectural Drafting and Design) but also are just very K.I.S.S. and logical for the way I like to approach the problem of vertical growing, also READ everything a guy named DHF post's, between the two you cannot go wrong IMHO.

Get Vertical bro!

 

[prowler]

The trouble in maximizing yield with vertical setup and big ass plants is this. Typical cannabis plant is shaped like a christmas tree. Fat ass and skinny top. For successfull plant structure i'd suggest you to try to stretch your trees from the very beginning of the veg stage and regulalry top your side nodes to form a proper stick.

If and when you decide to do this grow please post back a proper diary for us others to learn from your experiences.

Thank you in advance and happy growing mate!

 

[DHF]

All valid points guys , and I can tell everyone I`ve got GrowBro`s on the left coast that supply the clubs with rooted cuts weekly , and they run ebb and flow tables with outrageous amounts of fully rooted cuts per 4 x 4/4 x 8 and yield as much if not more than any vertical setup I`ve ever laid eyes on ......but.......

Takes a clone factory ta feed the beast for yearly production rates , and it just so happens they`ve got 1.......

Ivanic...There is no magic formula or equation , only dialed strains , environments , and enough watts per sq ft to produce AAA dankness.....

Never ran CO2 in my life Bro , but rather major extraction/air exchange ftw once each room was dialed......

Heath Robinson`s never used CO2 supplements either , but rather what`s inherent in the air we breathe changing each rooms air out twice per minute.....

The only advantage to vertical setups IME , is being able to fill all 4 walls AND the floors with plants surrounding the bulbs , compared to only being ableta cover the floor with a horizontal/flat grow......

You`ve already killed it with flat grow`s Bro.....Cheese yields vertically OR horizontally , but.......

Big plants take increased vegtime for big yields , so tradeoff`s are inevitable......

Holler if I can help...DHF.........

 

[ivanic]

thanks for the advice lads!

Mr ktwiz heaths tree grow is awesome, but some of his other grows require more plants, like the flooded tube with 84 plants getting 4lb etc. Its amazing what he can do in a smaller space, but the plant numbers kill me. I can get the same yield with 15 plants equivalent relating to my current grow. Obviously with more light. But the plant number is ALOT more important to me than the lights. I dont mind paying for the electric.

Anyone recommend any software to create 3d images of potential set ups. Using a mac if that makes a difference. i have a few ideas i can show use.

Thanks again lads, appreciate the help!

 

[laylow]

Wow you have been killin it at 1.2gpw not sure I would change much! I want .75 gpw from my stadium if I got anything near 1 gpw I will be estatic lol

Just out of interest veteran vert growers what are some vert/stadium strains you are speaking of any suggestions?

Didn't mean to hijack your thread dude good luck with whatever you choose

 

[ivanic]

Wow you have been killin it at 1.2gpw not sure I would change much! I want .75 gpw from my stadium if I got anything near 1 gpw I will be estatic lol

Just out of interest veteran vert growers what are some vert/stadium strains you are speaking of any suggestions?

Didn't mean to hijack your thread dude good luck with whatever you choose

Well thats the big decision bro! I reckon i will be changing or at least giving it ago some time.

No worries mate more posts the better!

 

[drymouth]

yo Laylow, its hard to say what strains will do good thats all dependent on what style.... tree style stadiums will need plants that strech like, blue dream,most og kush's,most chem's, just any plant in general you know that get tall and big fast! Now if your going shelf style then the above will work as well with less veg but you can also do some known squat plants like, most bubba hybrids, most purple hybrids, or any compact plant for that matter. I'ed do a whole bunch of pk's on shelf's style grow "if i had access to that many"

yo ivanic, i'ed go with, akasomeoneelse advice, with that much room you could set somthing off to the side and experament document and compare numbers! good luck.

 

[laylow]

Again not to hijack ivanic's thread I grow in a 8 row 4 a side stadium and pack plants in a little more than 1 per ft.... Just had a 3 week slow veg kicking into flower tomorrow.... Just hope they stretch enough and fill the gaps....