NEWBY QUESTION - half way through mixing solution and ARGHH!!

[bonecarver_OG]

with an airstone the nutes get eaten by bacteria and such much faster and its loosing money as i see it to feeding things that aint my plants.. anyway, even without an airstone i dont recomend the usage of a week old nute mix.

also the hotter it is the faster it breaks down.

i dont use any airstones at all anymore. there is no difference in the plants at all, and on top i never need to clean my rez since i never get any kind of build up. i make new water mix each day. sometimes i leave it max one day to an other.

this tip is the one of the best ones from Canna. its not new at all. they discovered that many years ago, and it is mentioned in many different papers.

honestly ya all know how to make a compost tea decompose fast? - add airstones. same thing with a rez. exactly as canna states.

 

[Granger2]

I have no argument with any of the points made above, and wouldn't argue with the likes of Canna nor Bonecarver. I do want to point one thing out that effects all of us, but particularly organic growers. When nute mixes are "eaten" by aerobic microorganisms, they are not lost. They are released to the plants when applied to the medium because there will be a mass die off due to drastically different conditions. The survivors and the existing herd will aid in this. That's their job. Buena suerte.

 

[Scrogerman]

with an airstone the nutes get eaten by bacteria and such much faster and its loosing money as i see it to feeding things that aint my plants.. anyway, even without an airstone i dont recomend the usage of a week old nute mix.

also the hotter it is the faster it breaks down.

i dont use any airstones at all anymore. there is no difference in the plants at all, and on top i never need to clean my rez since i never get any kind of build up. i make new water mix each day. sometimes i leave it max one day to an other.

this tip is the one of the best ones from Canna. its not new at all. they discovered that many years ago, and it is mentioned in many different papers.

honestly ya all know how to make a compost tea decompose fast? - add airstones. same thing with a rez. exactly as canna states.

Im lucky i aint been a lazy ass then ah, most i ever leave a solution is 9 days, before its replaced, I would like to find out exactly what process of nute/element breakdown because of O2 that canna are talking about, i suspect its somthing to do with 'Oxygens oxidising abilities, that'd be my guess. I have never had a issue with Canna & O2, but i change out frequently as recommended.
You got anything on that issue Bone? anyone? G'Luck...

 

[its.always.420]

or i'm going to call 911

Wow, impatience at it's max! Don't worry, you won't see much rise from adding pH adjusters. If you need more than 20-30 ppm your water sucks and you should think about R/O.

 

[bonecarver_OG]

scrogerman - yes its the oxygen

several minerals (metals) are VERY sensitive to oxidation. manganese, iron, magnesium and so forth.

aeration is used in the process of cleaning water and is a VERY effective method to REMOVE manganese and iron.

"Iron and Manganese

Both iron (Fe) and manganese (Mn) are minerals which can be found in water supplies.
.....
The usual treatment to remove iron and manganese from water is to oxidize the minerals as rapidly as possible and then to remove the oxidized material through filtration. Manganese oxidizes and discolors water at a slower rate than iron, which affects the treatment method used for each mineral. In addition, pH affects the rate of oxidation for both minerals, so it is often necessary to change the pH of the water during treatment.

In some cases the oxidation is accomplished entirely by the addition of chemicals. In other cases the water is first aerated, then an alkali is added to complete oxidation. The alkali optimizes the pH and uses the oxygen in the air to oxidize the iron and manganese. At the same time, the alkali reduces the carbon dioxide concentration in the water. "

 

[bonecarver_OG]

ganger - organic nutes are usually in a form that needs the bacteria or microbialo life to be accessible to the plants. it means for example that bacteria will turn Amonia into Nitrogen.

but when the nute solution is allready prepared for direct uptake for a plant, it means the nutrients are in a form that does not benefit at all from any bacterial decompostion. instead Nitrogen would get eaten by bacteria - and not be accessible for the plant or anything. when dinitrification is done, what is left is a gas that goes into the atmosphere.


example

NO3- N2+ N2O Through denitrification, oxidized forms of nitrogen such as nitrate and nitrite (NO2-) are converted to dinitrogen (N2) and, to a lesser extent, nitrous oxide gas. Denitrification is an anaerobic process that is carried out by denitrifying bacteria, which convert nitrate to dinitrogen in the following sequence:
NO3- NO2- NO N2O N2.
Nitric oxide and nitrous oxide are both environmentally important gases. Nitric oxide (NO) contributes to smog, and nitrous oxide (N2O) is an important greenhouse gas, thereby contributing to global climate change.

Once converted to dinitrogen, nitrogen is unlikely to be reconverted to a biologically available form because it is a gas and is rapidly lost to the atmosphere. Denitrification is the only nitrogen transformation that removes nitrogen from ecosystems (essentially irreversibly), and it roughly balances the amount of nitrogen fixed by the nitrogen fixers described above.

source
http://www.visionlearning.com/library/module_viewer.php?mid=98

interesting the info about the dinitrogen contributing to the greenhouse effect...

 

[roll it large]

I just read a letter from Canna regarding the lifetime of mixed up nutrients and they spoke about not using air stones in the reservoir with canna nutrients as it will cause the elements to break down and change at a rapid rate.

If you'd like to increase the circulation of a reservoir a water pump can be used to agitate the surface of the water. Breaking the surface tension and oxygenating the water as it would be in nature (like waves or river currents).

You are the man bro thats my problem ive been getting aerating my mix then 4 hours later cloudy i was wondering what caused something to precipitate out of solution it was the air better remix it all now, my plants love u

 

[Snow Crash]

I don't think you should be getting precipitates with an airstone that quickly. That's got to be a pH or additive thing.

I notice that alkaline products, like Pro-Tekt, will be cloudy when they hit the reservoir if I add them last. I think it is a mixing acids with bases kind of thing. Once I get the pro-tekt mixed in it does dissolve though.

 

[roll it large]

I don't think you should be getting precipitates with an airstone that quickly. That's got to be a pH or additive thing.

I notice that alkaline products, like Pro-Tekt, will be cloudy when they hit the reservoir if I add them last. I think it is a mixing acids with bases kind of thing. Once I get the pro-tekt mixed in it does dissolve though.

Im adding canna a b first then pk 13-14 then boost base ec is 0.4 when mixed its 1.9 ph is 6.8 when first mixed when it went cloudy white ph was 7.4 any ideas?

 

[roll it large]

Im adding canna a b first then pk 13-14 then boost base ec is 0.4 when mixed its 1.9 ph is 6.8 when first mixed when it went cloudy white ph was 7.4 any ideas?

Forgot to mention ec dropped to 1.7 too when it went cloudy too

 

[bonecarver_OG]

if you use phosphoric acid for ph down... and got a lot of lime in the water it could be it

"Phosphoric acid and calcium hydroxide react to make water and calcium phosphate"

http://www.chemtutor.com/react.htm

but its just a guess. its impossible to say with only that info.

take the water you use to a testing lab and see what minerals it contains. if u use RO water - then its a reaction obviously of the nutes you are using. stir more inbetween each nute.

hope it helps

 

[roll it large]

if you use phosphoric acid for ph down... and got a lot of lime in the water it could be it

"Phosphoric acid and calcium hydroxide react to make water and calcium phosphate"

http://www.chemtutor.com/react.htm

but its just a guess. its impossible to say with only that info.

take the water you use to a testing lab and see what minerals it contains. if u use RO water - then its a reaction obviously of the nutes you are using. stir more inbetween each nute.

hope it helps

I dont know whats caused this i hadnt got round to using the ph down yet when i checked it 4 hours later thats what i was going to do. Ive turned air pump off and the solution has settled clear with a sediment in the bottom im going to throw this away and statr fresh i will post up when ive remixed im new to canna nutes this is my 5th mix with it this is the second time it done it first 3 times were ok but i didnt use an airstone with those. So i will mix some more without an airstone an i will post up my findings

 

[Granger2]

ganger - organic nutes are usually in a form that needs the bacteria or microbialo life to be accessible to the plants. it means for example that bacteria will turn Amonia into Nitrogen.

but when the nute solution is allready prepared for direct uptake for a plant, it means the nutrients are in a form that does not benefit at all from any bacterial decompostion. instead Nitrogen would get eaten by bacteria - and not be accessible for the plant or anything. when dinitrification is done, what is left is a gas that goes into the atmosphere.


example


source
http://www.visionlearning.com/library/module_viewer.php?mid=98

interesting the info about the dinitrogen contributing to the greenhouse effect...

Bonecarver- Thanks for posting the link. Good article on the Nitrogen cycle. Informative without being too long. You’ve cited the fifth and last phase of the N cycle. Key word “anaerobic.”

I don’t see an advantage for those growing with all chemical nutes to have microbes tie up nutrients even though it would be short term, and unlikely, as stated in the article, that they would be lost.

The article shows that aerobic microbes would release the nutes for use by the plants, in the first 4 phases. The fifth phase would require anaerobic conditions. A partial N loss would be the least of a grower’s worries if his/her reservoir and/or medium were to go anaerobic. Buena suerte.

 

[bonecarver_OG]

this is a coco forum - i only answer questions more or less directly related to it. the whole nitrogen cycle is not related to it - so for discusions of organic growing and its benefits, we have an organic forum.

i can see you are new - take time to check this forum out properly and post in the relevant sub-forums.

the whole nitrogen cycle has little to do with growing in coco, and thus is irrellevant to quote. we use mineral based nutes. coco is hydroponic growing in its core.

"Originally Posted by bonecarver_OG
nutrients are in a form that does not benefit at all from any bacterial decompostion. instead Nitrogen would get eaten by bacteria - and not be accessible for the plant or anything. when dinitrification is done, what is left is a gas that goes into the atmosphere.
"

anyway, i think its more likelly other things as stated in the post after:

"Originally Posted by bonecarver_OG
Phosphoric acid and calcium hydroxide react to make water and calcium phosphate"

 

[Granger2]

Bonecarver,
I am new as a poster, but have been reading these forums for a few months. I appreciate any tips, since I'm here to learn. I do read the organic forums, but am currently growing organically in coco. I've finished one really successful crop, starting another.

I didn't ask any questions. I don't really want to discuss the N Cycle either. You brought up the N Cycle and gave a link, which I went to and read.

Searching the Organic forums yields little for coco growers. Maybe I'm not using the search feature correctly. Most threads started about growing in coco in the Organic forum, and most threads in the Coco forum about growing organically, get little response.

I will ask this question. Are you saying that I'm in the wrong place, that I’m not welcome here, as a coco grower since I'm growing organically? -Granger

 

[bonecarver_OG]

relax - you seem a bit jumpy

your statement needed some attention. its quite un-related to coco-growing. no-where did you mention you even growing in coco. if you specify/elaborate a bit more im sure u will get better answers/response.

if you dont want people to discuss what you post, avoid discussion-forums... here any statement is up for discussion and scrutiny, like that we all progress.

peace

 

[Granger2]

Bonecarver,

Agreed. The ICMag Forums is a resource and knowledge base that is nothing short of vast. I'm looking forward to learning from you and many others here. And I'm hoping to contribute when I can. Peace bro. Buena suerte. -Granger

 

[kannubis]

Thanks for putting up with all of us bonecarver_OG. I have learned much from your experience given out in so many answers here