How should i start?

[exploziv]

I'm interested in composting and growing vegetables for a long time, but I was thinking that in a period of time I could try to have a peaceful, "village" life, having most of my green groceries from my land.

I need some pointers on following matters:

-Which type of composting I should use? I was thinking vermicomposting..
-What vegetables are easy to grow and care for and have good nutritional value? Tomatoes, Peppers..
-How big my land should be to sustain let's say 3-4 ppl?

I'm open to lots of tips and sugestions, I even consider aquaponics outdoors.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

It depends on what you grow as to how much space you need. Corn needs lots of room compared to other plants in the typical veggie garden. Potatoes, cucumbers, squash, okra and green beans can yield with much less space. Head lettuce takes lots of space but the leaf lettuce varieties reproduce from the same patch. Greens like collards and mustard are medium space requirements( unless you like lots of greens.) Carrots, radishes and onions are relatively low space.

We used to use a pressure cooker to seal canned goods, canning salt to preserve. Most veggies freeze better than canned, a big deep freezer comes in handy. A big ass cupboard or closet to put hundreds of jars of tomatoes and green beans is handy.

Summers are lots of work. Wire to wire harvesting and storage. You might consider buying what tastes good and is reasonably priced. Grow the rest.

About all I grow any more is tomatoes. Being self sufficient is great and helping out the local produce stands is good for the economy.

 

[ronbo51]

An acre is a huge garden. I would start way smaller. Starting off to big is a mistake. Small intensively cultivated gardens will out produce large rangy gardens.Especially if you run multiple staggered plantings. You really want to break things down to the seasons to maximize. The spring/late winter garden is greens of all kinds. Root crops love cool spring weather. Start swiss chard, leaf lettuce, spinach, bok choy under floros. As soon as the soil can be worked plant peas, carrots, beets. Get the greens out as soon as the ground is ready. Buy and use floating row covers to give a little buffer from cold nights, dessicating winds, and the first insects(flea beetles).
Plant more spinach and lettuce every few weeks. As it gets warmer things grow faster. Greens will suffer as the heat comes on. Compost spent crops in piles with weeds. Once the warm nights kick in move to the summer garden. Fruiting crops: cukes, zukes, green beans, tomatoes, peppers, eggplant, squash, pumpkins, corn. I don't grow sweet corn anymore because it feeds so heavy, takes up space, the raccoons will eat it all unless electric fences are used, and its widely available from roadside vendors for cheap in the summer. Till and compost spent crops. Don't let weeds grow to seed. As summer wanes move to the fall garden. More greens, late carrots and beets. The mark of a kick ass gardener is if you can put fresh greens on the table for thanksgiving and christmas dinner.

 

[exploziv]

Thank you guys. Both of you gave me good advice.

Do you think that 2 people working the land could start with 4000 square meters (43 055 sqf)? Or better 2000 sqm (21 527 sqf)?
how big should my composter be?
what is the best option for auto-irigation?

 

[Midnight]

Thank you guys. Both of you gave me good advice.

Do you think that 2 people working the land could start with 4000 square meters (43 055 sqf)? Or better 2000 sqm (21 527 sqf)?
how big should my composter be?
what is the best option for auto-irigation?

That is a whole lot of space you are talking about. I use this space and another space about the same size and get enough fresh stuff for two of us throughout the year. This is tomatoes, corn, peppers, green beans, butter beans, melons, okra, squash, pumpkins, sunflower seeds, and black eyed peas. In the winter I do carrots, beets, cabbage, broccoli, etc. I just harvested some turnips yesterday and they went into a most excellent stew.

Both spaces together total aprx 600 sq feet.

Summer/Fall Transition

Some Winter Stuff

And Some Summer Stuff

 

[exploziv]

I was thinking one bed or two of everything, not that packed as in you pics. But you are right, I think I don't need even 2000sqm.
what about your irigation, how does it work and how do you run it?

tx for stoping by.

 

[Midnight]

I was thinking one bed or two of everything, not that packed as in you pics. But you are right, I think I don't need even 2000sqm.
what about your irigation, how does it work and how do you run it?

tx for stoping by.

My irrigation is a drip system on a timer. I have a 3/4 inch pvc line coming from my main water supply, that goes into a 3/4 inch electric gate valve. The gate valve is on a 24V irrigation timer. The 3/4 inch line is then stepped down to 1/4 inch drip tubing. Different plants then get different GPH drippers depending on the water needs. The timer gets adjusted based on the water needs of each plant as the summer gets hotter. In the winter I use mostly rain water and don't use the drip system at all or very little.

This is my irrigation setup. Note, I no longer use the green box in the line on the right. This was a timer and I had continuous problems with it. As I said, this same system is now on the irrigation controller that I posted the pic to. The valve on the right does the veggy garden, the one on the left does my fruit trees. The other thing is a motion activated sprinkler for keeping the varmints out.

 

[exploziv]

Thanks, that's about what I was thinking, probably a gardena programer with a rain sensor.
I may need to use water from underground, so I will probably need to make a water tank with a level sensor and a pump filling it by need and another pump to make enough pression for the drippers to work. (Or I should go with a powerful pump that has compressor and powers on demand and no water tank? / maybe you know what pression is neded for the valve to operate?)
Great organised garden you have there. If I pull something similar, maybe a little big than yours, I should be very happy with it.

 

[Midnight]

Thanks, that's about what I was thinking, probably a gardena programer with a rain sensor.
I may need to use water from underground, so I will probably need to make a water tank with a level sensor and a pump filling it by need and another pump to make enough pression for the drippers to work. (Or I should go with a powerful pump that has compressor and powers on demand and no water tank? / maybe you know what pression is neded for the valve to operate?)
Great organised garden you have there. If I pull something similar, maybe a little big than yours, I should be very happy with it.

The hose bib on your house puts water out at around 50psi, how many psi you will need will depend on the size of you irrigation system and the needs of the plants. With my drip system I have pressure reducers that drop the 50 psi down to 20 psi. I do this because my area is small and I don't need all that pressure and also my drippers will not take 50 psi without blowing out.

 

[dubwise]

What a great bunch of useful information! My garden was too big last year and it became too much work. Great thread!

 

[ronbo51]

Once again, start small. Certain crops, like melons for instance, take up lots of space and need a long season and are susceptible to lots of pests and disease so I don't grow them. A couple other points to consider are pest and disease management and infrastructure of the garden. Usually the first year of a garden is the easiest. The soil has all its nutrition, and the insects and disease that live off your crops have not settled in yet. But you should be ready beforehand with products that are safe and effective. Depending on where you live you will need to control flea beetles which will quickly overwhelm small seedlings and suck them dry. Beets, turnips, all cabbage family crops are vulnerable. i cover everything early with floating row covers. Once I pull them I dust with rotenone to control. Striped cucumber beetles will fill the flowers of all squash, cucumbers, melons, sucking and spreading disease which will kill the plants later. Spray with pyrethrin early in the morning before the bees get going. These stink bugs also love squash and they eat and spread disease. They are tough. Treat tomatoes with anything you are comfortable with to control leaf spot. There is a great sticky in the OD forum on people fighting leaf spot. DO NOT let leaf spot get started on your tomatoes or anywhere in your garden. Once disease and pests get established in your garden they will be very difficult to control.
The infrastructure part is stuff like whatever system you will employ to get tomatoes to climb. Pea trellis, row covers, irrigation, a good tiller, electric fence, cold frames, good tools. Once things get growing hard in June it only takes a few days for things to get out of control and you could easily never catch up. Be prepared. Think about succession. Any areas not in crop rotation should get planted in buckwheat for green manure, and at the end of the season you should plant rye or clover or some other field grass for weed suppression and soil building. I grew food commercially for many years and eventually it does become just hard work, but it is very rewarding and worth it in every way. Let your skills and ambition dictate your growth, just like you would not go out and blow up a 10K cannabis grow your first attempt. Good luck and have fun.

 

[WasntMe]

it is being done on a 1/5 of an acre ... a family living and growing.
Follow the lead of The Dervaes family. There are many videos about them and their methods online.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVJtpuOyCo0

http://urbanhomestead.org/

 

[pearlemae]

Check with your county Extention agent,They may (most states have them) a Master Gardeners program, they will be able to give you more info on composting and gardening than you be able to read. In addition to gardeners they also have Master Composting, master food preservers. Nice to know what to do with all the goodies you can grow. An acre is alot of garden.

 

[exploziv]

Thank you guys very much. Great info and links. I have what to study for some time.

 

[mosstrooper]

Id spend a few weeks referring to the "organic soil" section of the "growers forums" amazing how much good detailed advice you can glean from there.

 

[exploziv]

Thanks for the advice. I'm planing to study around more than a few weeks. I will not start this too soon, at least not befere I'll have everything sorted out in a plan.

Does anybody here has an outdoor aquaponics system? Any advice on how to chose the fish species? I know tilapia doesn't do well under 15 degrees C, as I live in Eastern Europe, the fish in my pond should take around 1-5 degrees C, or whatever temperature my pond would have under the surface ice in the winter. Some pointers here would be great.
I would love to do aquaponics in my garden, I think it is easy to connect aquaponics with plants and vermicomposting.

So, by now I have almost figured out my watering system, I have learned what vegetables should I start with and got many links and other pieces of advice. Thanks! Hope we'll see more good info in the future. I will use this thread for all my future questions and maybe even for revealing parts of the plan, when it will take some shape.
The more I learn, the more I learn how little I know.

 

[Dr_Tre]

Onions, garlic and lettuce are some of the easiest plants to grow, IMO.If your spot is warm enough you should try tomatoes - such a rewarding crop to grow!
Also, if you plan to supply your family with food 2000 m2 is not a big field at all.But it's a hell of lot work.
Best luck!

 

[ForbiddenFruit]

Permaculture

Permaculture

I would start by studying Permaculture. Its based on the principle that natures design is the most efficient and when designing a homestead or garden the goal is to minimise input of labor while maximising the output of production. Permaculture is a very thorough study encompassing plants, animals, nutrient cycles, climate factors, weather cycles, land, food, energy, shelter, infrastructure, essentially mapping your entire plot of land to determine every aspect and how they inter-relate and support each other to create a self sustainable cycle of living off the land.

The best plants to grow are the varieties that perform the best in your area. That is one principle permaculture covers. Its important that all plants you grow are suited to your climate while not using more energy than it provides. For example corn takes huge amounts of nutrients to grow properly, and isn't a very sustainable option in certain climates, there are other grains you could replace corn with.

These are some plants I consider staples.

kale,greens of all kinds, carrots, onions, celery, potatoes, tomatoes, peppers, beans, peas. There are others, but anything that grows and stores well.

Then of course there are herbs, flowers and fruits, which are all important.

Here is a really good E-book pack if you have a bit-torrent client you can download, It contains like 50 books, I think its a valuable resource.

http://onebigtorrent.org/torrents/1...Ecology-and-the-Environment--Torrent-Download

 

[exploziv]

Thank you for the link. Great info inside!
Too bad that most permaculture books and websites are about plants for much better conditions than in my area. Hope I'll find more info for temperate climate.

 

[mosstrooper]

Thank you for the link. Great info inside!
Too bad that most permaculture books and websites are about plants for much better conditions than in my area. Hope I'll find more info for temperate climate.

Plants For A Future: A resource and information centre for edible and otherwise useful plants
Plants For A Future (PFAF) is a charitable company, originally set up to support the work of Ken and Addy Fern on their experimental site in Cornwall, where they carried out research and provided information on edible and otherwise useful plants suitable for growing outdoors in a temperate climate. Over time they planted 1500 species of edible plants on 'The Field' in Cornwall, which was their base since 1989. Over ten years ago, Ken began compiling a database, which currently consists of approximately 7000 species of plants.

I know tilapia doesn't do well under 15 degrees C, as I live in Eastern Europe, the fish in my pond should take around 1-5 degrees C

Trout Maybe?

Dont look that hard