DJ's B-130 male.

[Campfire]

In which strains (currently available in seed form) will I find the HIGHEST percentage of this particular Dad's genetic contribution?

I want to outcross DJ's current FLO to something with as much B130 stuff as possible.

Anyone (with lots of knowledge of the Blues) ? Please oh please?

 

[PondeLftHndSide]

To the best of my knowledge, most hybrids made with the B130 are F1's with him as the father, giving you 50/50 ____x B130. I'm not familiar with any current commercial offerings that have backcrossed to the B130 male. DJ doesn't really publish his pedigrees so it's hard to know how much of what is in his gear, but Legends and Chimera have released a bunch of different ____ x B130 F1's (Fighting Buddha, Highland Mex x BB, Dolce Sativa, Timebomb, etc.) that are definitely worth searching through.

The B130 seems to be rather adept at passing on his floral structure and aroma profile from what I've grown and sampled so far. You might track down a B130 F1 hybrid that speaks to you, grow it out, make F2 seed and then start searching for B130-leaners in the F2 to mate with your Flo. Depends on what your final breeding goal is.

Definitely sounds like a good goal to me. I've got some gifted Flo x (Highland Mex x B130) seeds in the fridge that are amongst my most anticipated upcoming sprouts. The HMxBB was some of the most amazing smoke I've ever grown, and you know about the Flo. You just know the progeny is gonna be extry-special...

 

[Campfire]

Thanks for all that info, Ponde. Any idea how long Chimera's HM/BB flowers? I'll be doing this outside @ 43N, 1st wk of Oct mandatory for it to finish, though I could pollinate Flo with HM/BB and fish for the resulting hybrid's earliest progeny the following year.

 

[PondeLftHndSide]

Don't even think about trying HMxBB outdoors at 43N... we tried it at 38N last season and it didn't even start flowering until mid-August. Unless you're in the tropics, you'll need glass or a force-flower setup to finish HMxBB outside. Indoors from clones under top lights she finished nicely at 12 weeks and produced a product of the utmost quality, but grew into a giant uncontrollable Medusa that kept stretching and stretching, wouldn't stay where you told it, and yielded terribly. Finally tamed her with a barebulb vertical, but still only got .6g/watt even with photoperiod tweaking. So that might not be the best choice for your situation.



Johnny Blaze might finish where you're at, but I've never run it outdoors so I can't say. That's got a stellar pedigree too, original Nevil's Haze x B130. Maybe someone else has some experience running JB outdoors and will chime in. C-Plus (Aeric77 Cali-O x B130) and Sweetest Sativa (ISS x B130) from Chimera should finish where you're at, too. All are currently in stock on the Bou. Chim has also had some Vision Thai x B130 and Big Sur Holyweed x B130 up on the 'Bay for a while, both are worth checking out.

 

[Campfire]

Okay, I read 420247's thread on Chimera's forum. HM/BB is a late one. Guess I'll still collect HM/BB pollen and do up a good Flo anyway, see if I find early phenos in the resultant seeds I grow out in the 2013 season. I'll pollenate GG3# with it too, what the hell - never can tell just how a cross will turn out, sometimes surprisingly nice things happen.

If nothing else, I'll put lots of good HM*BB/Flo seeds in cold storage, waiting for the move south in a few years.

 

[Campfire]

Ponde - I have no idea how it happened, but I posted the above post (#5) without seeing your post (#4). I could've sworn #4 wasn't there! (?????)

Anyway, thanks again. My goal is to bring out/maintain the cleanest, clearest, kindest 'Flo-i-ness' from the Flo seeds I have now (DJ's new version). If B130 contributes floral structure and scents, but doesn't contribute much experientially, maybe I don't need it.

Mr Alkaline suggested I not breed my new Flos to themselves, but to breed them to something that would guide the progeny away from a blueberry indica expression, and towards a bb sativa one - he suggested maybe F13, or DP Flo.

The HM/BB would be perfect, I think, for the kind of calm, clear, clean, but powerfully psychotropic/transporting thing I'm looking to get closer to. But being that late, realistically, you're right, I need to pass on it.

With my stated goal in mind, and considering my latitude, does anything pop into your mind, or banyone elses out there, that I could mate to my Flos? Possibly one of those you noted in your above posts?

Basically, I want to keep/strengthen Flo's vigor and earliness, while maintaining the best of its experiential qualitys. I DON'T want to muddy it up. I'm kind of flying blind here, as I've never grown or even smoked Flo, or any blue, before, I'm just going from other peoples descriptions of the high, and my own experiences growing out some utterly amazing Mexican and Colombian bagseeders back in the 70's in Florida.

 

[quiescent]

I'd suggest the Johnny Blaze over the HMxBB if finishing time is an issue. Although, IMHO, you're best off making f2s of either the JB or the HMxBB and make your selections there.

a little about my experience with the JB, however limited as I haven't flowered out the females yet. I do have a film cannister of pollen in the freezer so I did get to see how my males played out, and they get two BIG thumbs up from me.

I popped 2 packs of JB last year, got 18 solid plants. 11 females, 7 males. I lost 1 female due to getting brazen and only taking 2 clones per plant and trashing the moms, culled one male due to super floppy stems and a crazy growth rate... no mutations or runts. I got a great spectrum of pheenos from the females, a few heavy BB leaners (one that leans SUPER hard to the BB). I also have a couple of haze dom plants and quite a few that seem to be right in between.

Honestly if you wanted to outcross the FLO I would see no better candidate than the Johnny Blaze. I see you eyeballing the BS 2.2... while its superb herb and you'll likely find exactly what you're looking for in just a few packs since koot already did the leg work by making f2s with a solid male... I just think you're better off working with a little bit less BB genes in your outcross to keep things going on down the line.

 

[bloyd]

I may be mistaken but isn't f13 flo x b-130 male? Why not go that route?

On a side note b-130 crosses tend to be kind of late to finish due to the sativa nature of b-130 (usually doesn't begin flowering early enough). I see you having difficulties getting any of the crosses to finish by oct 1st. Even timebomb which is b-130 x texada timewarp (an early outdoor plant) would have troubles finishing by oct 1st at least from grower reports that I have read from outdoor attempts.

 

[420247]

Ponde - I have no idea how it happened, but I posted the above post (#5) without seeing your post (#4). I could've sworn #4 wasn't there! (?????)

Anyway, thanks again. My goal is to bring out/maintain the cleanest, clearest, kindest 'Flo-i-ness' from the Flo seeds I have now (DJ's new version). If B130 contributes floral structure and scents, but doesn't contribute much experientially, maybe I don't need it.

Mr Alkaline suggested I not breed my new Flos to themselves, but to breed them to something that would guide the progeny away from a blueberry indica expression, and towards a bb sativa one - he suggested maybe F13, or DP Flo.

The HM/BB would be perfect, I think, for the kind of calm, clear, clean, but powerfully psychotropic/transporting thing I'm looking to get closer to. But being that late, realistically, you're right, I need to pass on it.

With my stated goal in mind, and considering my latitude, does anything pop into your mind, or banyone elses out there, that I could mate to my Flos? Possibly one of those you noted in your above posts?

Basically, I want to keep/strengthen Flo's vigor and earliness, while maintaining the best of its experiential qualitys. I DON'T want to muddy it up. I'm kind of flying blind here, as I've never grown or even smoked Flo, or any blue, before, I'm just going from other peoples descriptions of the high, and my own experiences growing out some utterly amazing Mexican and Colombian bagseeders back in the 70's in Florida.

If my pictures are unwanted, please let me know and I'll edit them out

If I was working to do what your wanting to do, I would...

Get the HM X BB, because the HM is so different from the BB it will be easier to select the most BB type plants...

I would work on inbreeding my HM X BB and cross the F3 HM X BB to the Flo... Keep Inbreeding the HM X BB, cross the F4 HM X BB to the flo... I would keep doing this and testing the progeny untill I found something... Keep your mothers and fathers, you might want to keep making these seeds... A goal is nice... But real life never cares about your goals, so be willing to adapt... Keep an open mind when testing your seeds/plants/flowers... Something special might not seem so special when your hunting for something else...

If you have or can hunt down DJ Shorts Blueberry mother plant DJ Short let out in California... Get it... It will help you "see things" in seeds you plan to make and grow... Kinda give you an idea of what your "looking" for on the Blueberry side...

DJ Shorts Blueberry mother in veg...

Same BB different cutting...

Again same BB different cutting...

I hope this helps

 

[PondeLftHndSide]

420247 -

After having smoked several different samples of Flo, countless samples made with the Seedbank/MNS Haze genes, and several pounds of HMxBB, I can say that for me the HMxBB was definitely the closest experientially to the Flo. Mainly the clarity aspect - the clarity of HMxBB could be startling, a feeling/sensation more akin to the late stages of a psilocybin or LSD experience than to cannabis. Almost like nothing is happening at all, until you start to think about the 'nothing' and realize that it is absolutely fucking EVERYTHING! A lot like I remember from the good Mex from my youth.

Nev's/Shanti's Haze genes don't have that clarity for me, the effect is way more up-front and obvious. Completely amazing and enjoyable in it's own way, and something I will always, always have in one form or another in my genetic library. But a different beast than the Flo/Mex. Not as 'kind' as DJ's selections.

If effect is your primary goal, you may want to put in the work and break off those HMxBB. In my personal experience, with a few notable exceptions, the more desirable and enjoyable the effect, the harder the plant has been to grow and work with. I think that's a big part of DJ's whole trip, trying to distill the essence of the difficult 'heritage' plants into a manageable form, because wrangling big equatorial beasts in a closet (or northern latitudes) gets really old after a while.

Mr. A is definitely a wonderful resource in these matters. Glad he's on the case for you too. Also, check out ThePablos' threads and galleries, he made a number of outcrosses with HMxBB and with Flo and published detailed results.

 

[quiescent]

I may be mistaken but isn't f13 flo x b-130 male? Why not go that route?

On a side note b-130 crosses tend to be kind of late to finish due to the sativa nature of b-130 (usually doesn't begin flowering early enough). I see you having difficulties getting any of the crosses to finish by oct 1st. Even timebomb which is b-130 x texada timewarp (an early outdoor plant) would have troubles finishing by oct 1st at least from grower reports that I have read from outdoor attempts.

I have no idea if you're correct but if you are then on paper that looks awesome, I've read that the f13s have a problem with creating sterile males, maybe the flos do as well.. pretty baked, can't remember that far back in my brain.

You are right though, that is a pretty early date to need them to finish. I don't know how I missed it, not much finishes that early bro. I think you might have to move this indoors or head towards the indica side of things. Dunno what your situation is as far as space and how much time you're willing to put in to get your end result but this could have the potential to be a massive undertaking that requires a larger plant count and multiple packs of expensive seeds.

 

[Campfire]

Big thanks to all, folks, seriously. Growing inside is out of the question for me here, unfortunately, but that's O K. I'm gonna get HM/BB and pollinate my Flos with it and put resulting seeds in cold storage for when I make the move to Florida. They'll flourish down there. I want to aquire seeds now, as I kinda think Big Bro might soon ramp up their neverending mission to clamp down on our freedoms in the name of keeping us drooling masses "safe" from ourselves.

I've heard F13 just isn't what it used to be. I don't know. Is the 'new' F13 as quality as the older version? If so, I'll pick it up as well - I'm confidant I can mature them here at 43N (in my microclimate-area).

Any clue when JB might finish here @ the 43rd??

 

[420247]

Big thanks to all, folks, seriously. Growing inside is out of the question for me here, unfortunately, but that's O K. I'm gonna get HM/BB and pollinate my Flos with it and put resulting seeds in cold storage for when I make the move to Florida. They'll flourish down there. I want to aquire seeds now, as I kinda think Big Bro might soon ramp up their neverending mission to clamp down on our freedoms in the name of keeping us drooling masses "safe" from ourselves.

I've heard F13 just isn't what it used to be. I don't know. Is the 'new' F13 as quality as the older version? If so, I'll pick it up as well - I'm confidant I can mature them here at 43N (in my microclimate-area).

Any clue when JB might finish here @ the 43rd??

Not even a tiny indoor grow just for mothers and cuttings?

I made this lil room at home depot for small mothers... Outdoor 65w floro flood lights, a plastic garage storage cabinet, 2 3" computer fans for intake and 1 6" computer fan as exaust

You can take cuttings from the mother, put the mother into flower and replace her with one of her rooted cuttings... I did this for years...

All you need is a 18w floro and a shelf for cuttings...

You can keep 8 to 10 mother in one of these... I had two

Do you have or are you able to setup a greenhouse?

Last time I looked (a week ago) Lowes had a really good deal ($200) for a 6' X 8' greenhouse thats 7' tall

I kinda like the idea of clones and veg indoors, flower outdoors

 

[420247]

Another idea...

You could setup two greenhouses... One as a workshop/mother/cutting room... And another for flowering... Nothing in your house...

You'd have to have electricity in the workshop/mother/cutting greenhouse... You could run a few of the boxes I showed... Or even an idea that would work better...

....... If your going to be moving... You could just collect seeds for now... Work on your grow setup and practice on the free seeds for now...

 

[Campfire]

I'm going to build a 32' by 32' polebarn this autumn. I'll come 4' out and wall-off the south-facing gable end above the bottom chord of my trusses, which will be floored for storage.

Clear roof panels near the top and 98% translucent wall panels, lots of sun - my seed starting/seedling chamber, built to appear nonexistant, stealthy access. For freezing mornings a heated blanket under heavy plastic for the seed trays. There'll be plenty of room, I suppose I could set up something like you've got in a separate chamber beneath the seedling room, it just makes me freakin nervous. With just the sun-energized chamber, after the seedlings come out, I can remove all evidence of everything, and only be a nervous wreck for the month of May.

It's a thought, though, a nice little room like you have pictured would be SO handy.

 

[PondeLftHndSide]

1" x 3" furring strips and black/white PandaPoly make a great indoor veg cab, too. You can make it as small or as big as you want. CFL's work great in a small cab, but I dig the Lu/W efficiency of T8 fluoros so mine is 4' wide. A $15 darkroom louver on the bottom, an axial vent fan with a DIY carbon filter up top, Velcro closures, and you're golden (or green) for less than $100. You can sprout, sex, clone and select in a very small space. Might make your project much easier.

I also have one of those cheap angle iron shelves from Home Depot set up in a closet with T8's. If you don't need to worry about light-tightness and can run an open shelf, there's no better value. Just watch the corners, they'll get you.

 

[Campfire]

...scribbling, scribbling...

 

[PondeLftHndSide]

My friggin' camera batteries are dead... otherwise I'd throw up some shots.

I started sprouting for this seasons outdoor in November of last year. Had an abundance of seed so I threw down way more than I planned to grow and since then have had a months-long selection party. Original Skunk #1, Casey Jones x (Casey x C99), (Casey x [HMxBB]) x (Casey x C99), and Super Jack x Tribal Vision. All plants showed identifiable primordia by January, and the males were sorted and selected for aroma and smoke tested, leaving me with 2 candidates, one of them an amazingly pungent lemon/grapefruity and very stout Skunk #1. Then I selected for aroma profiles in the females, then sorted through those for the best structures, leaving me with 7 females. They were getting pretty huge by this point, so I took clones off all of them, set aside the terminal meristem clone from each plant as my 'work plant', and culled the original seed plants. Got down to 9 plants out of about 60 seeds.

The 'work plants' are being pruned and vegged in Airpots under 6500K T8's to get bushy and wide, and the holes are being dug and amended this week. Since the plants have already shown sex, they should finish a bit sooner than if field-planted.

Even so, pure HMxBB has no chance of finishing up north even with this method. The clone we tried outdoors was a year old, and like I said didn't even start until mid August. But your greenhouse idea... very promising.

 

[Campfire]

Starting in winter like that and working (okay, it's playing) through all that prep/selection sure would be nice. So much more control. Got me considering it. It'd be nothing to rig a small heater, insulate well, and vent properly, all inside a steel, windowless, well-secured polebarn, on the second level. (...think think...)

 

[Baba Ku]

What is the linage of F13 anyway?